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Mr Plow

Widnes relegated

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:23 PM, Anonymouse said:

Widnes 

Leigh

Featherstone

Bradford

Toulouse 

Toronto or London B

Sheffield

Halifax 

Batley 

Dewsbury 

York

Barrow 

and possibly any from rochdale swinton workington doncaster 

That should be a very good competitive league next season 

As good as SL.

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15 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Well the Leigh Chairman claimed that that was so (in that open letter) when they relegated.

It seems wrong. The option should be to develop youth policy.

I know the parachute payment comes from SL directly, so slightly different. But Widnes have pumped loads of money over the last 8 years into their Academy team/structure, when clubs like Salford don't even have one, so all available money goes into their first team.

Surely that can't be right?

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1 hour ago, Krzzystuff said:

as you sit there disgusted and  ashamed of these players maybe you should think about the fact that they are the ones who put their bodies on the line and they are the ones who just lost their jobs. Yet instead of suilkinhg in their hotel rooms they are singing with the fans who traveled to support them after their second horrible year and maybe this was a way of them saying thank you and giving back to the fans. The fact that they are singing a Widnes song rather enthusiastically should be seen a positive no? 

I am not disgusted and ashamed I just think a degree of decorum was needed given what was on the game. Yes mingle with the fans and thank them totally get it but in this world of social media I just think it was a touch over the top given the result. I agree with Bomb Jack who I believe is a Widnes fan have a private room at the hotel, find out details and invite some of the fans who have traveled over to have a few and thank them for their support.

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12 minutes ago, Bomb Jack said:

I know the parachute payment comes from SL directly, so slightly different. But Widnes have pumped loads of money over the last 8 years into their Academy team/structure, when clubs like Salford don't even have one, so all available money goes into their first team.

Surely that can't be right?

Well all I am saying is that the relegated team, if given money, should have options. Leigh spent on contracts and then could not afford them after failing promotion.

If Widnes have been developing their youth and other policies then on the face of it it shows they have made other mistakes as well.p

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they have to pay Elstone a salary now so the parachute payment is gone. They tried it once, it failed miserably, won't be doing it again. It was all money our of SL owners own pockets and clearly it was wasted money.

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2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

They were heartbroken on the field after the game...the cameras probably didn't show it...just heartbroken the whole bunch of them...left it all on the field....i say cut them a break....letting off steam.

Agree like I have said with them letting off steam. Unfortunately we are in an age where social media shows everything. I hate what social media has become as stuff like this shouldn't have been made public and would have been something the fans who were there could take with them as memories, as unfortunately people will have opinions

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It's hard to imagine Widnes ever making Super League again. I tweeted immediately after that not only has mismanagement caused us to be relegated, they have done it in a way that has killed enthusiasm for RL in the town. 

This has been the slowest and most painful relegation in history. We've finished bottom for two years as expected and were favourites to finish bottom the year before that. Even prior to that, the club has encouraged stability, which whilst admirable isn't exciting. 

In our 7 years in Super League, Kevin Brown aside, I can't think of a single signing that was immediately crowd pleasing. 

Years of not being quite as bad as we were expected to be, followed by a couple being just as bad as expected has meant the core support has dwindled. I don't think they'll come back anytime soon. 

The result is a club that once would've been the biggest in the championship, instead being nothing special with no great claim to SL. 

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to think that club signed legends like offiah davies and tait from the inferior code back in the day to fit around homegrown talent howard eyes mylers etc etc and monsters from nz etc like Sorenson mann - a sad sign of how the game has devolved 

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Widnes can still have a major impact on who they face next year. If they could win at Hull KR, that could put Rovers down too which would be better financially for Widnes next year. Also a shorter trek

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7 hours ago, thepimp007 said:

Its not the being out, its the loud carrying on. Totally get it I really do its a one off trip. But the magnitude of the game for them (although they probably wouldn't have got out of it) and leaving careers and jobs on the line and giving themselves a fighting chance, that could have waited until their mad monday for me. I actually think they could do worse than Bobbie Goulding going forward, local lad big affinity with the club and passionate about it

Bobbie goulding's only posted that as he's gutted to miss out on a pith up

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2 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Widnes can still have a major impact on who they face next year. If they could win at Hull KR, that could put Rovers down too which would be better financially for Widnes next year. Also a shorter trek

On the field, it's not beyond the realms that Widnes could have a decent side next year and even gain promotion; I highly doubt it though based on our recruitment over the last decade or so.

The bigger worry, and the reason I say it's unlikely we'll make SL again, is due to reasons unique to the club. 30 years ago we won the World Club Challenge and this has sustained us for a long time. When we were relegated in 1995, there was a real sense of injustice and although support was relatively low at times there was a latent support that was easy to tap into when it looked like we could make the big time again. If Bradford ever challenge for promotion, I expect they'll have something similar.

Times were dark when we went under in 2007, but the shock of potentially losing the club meant that the reincarnation did pretty well especially when O'Connor came in. SL the first time had been an up and down experience but the game was doing well at the time and SL was still very much the holy grail for us; it felt like our rightful place.

The problem now is that this time around we have had 7 years of slow decline resulting in our eventual relegation. Size wise, we went from the middle group of clubs to the bottom group. The latent support has largely gone and making SL is no longer a dream that people will get excited about. I hate to say it but a lot of people have moved on, 30 years ago seems like a distant dream and isn't enough to sustain another prolonged period outside the top flight. A lot would have to change at the club and within the wider game for us to bring many of these fans back.

If I was a betting man, I would predict we will become something similar to Halifax in the short term: A club that does OK but has never really been in with a serious shout of SL since imploding in 2003. I could of course be wrong, in 2007 I thought we'd never see SL again but the difference this time is that people aren't really bothered if we have it or not. 

I was shell-shocked when we lost to Cas in 2007 knowing we would go under. Getting relegated on Saturday was mildly irritating for a couple of hours before I put the boxing on and forgot about it.

 

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11 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

On the field, it's not beyond the realms that Widnes could have a decent side next year and even gain promotion; I highly doubt it though based on our recruitment over the last decade or so.

The bigger worry, and the reason I say it's unlikely we'll make SL again, is due to reasons unique to the club. 30 years ago we won the World Club Challenge and this has sustained us for a long time. When we were relegated in 1995, there was a real sense of injustice and although support was relatively low at times there was a latent support that was easy to tap into when it looked like we could make the big time again. If Bradford ever challenge for promotion, I expect they'll have something similar.

Times were dark when we went under in 2007, but the shock of potentially losing the club meant that the reincarnation did pretty well especially when O'Connor came in. SL the first time had been an up and down experience but the game was doing well at the time and SL was still very much the holy grail for us; it felt like our rightful place.

The problem now is that this time around we have had 7 years of slow decline resulting in our eventual relegation. Size wise, we went from the middle group of clubs to the bottom group. The latent support has largely gone and making SL is no longer a dream that people will get excited about. I hate to say it but a lot of people have moved on, 30 years ago seems like a distant dream and isn't enough to sustain another prolonged period outside the top flight. A lot would have to change at the club and within the wider game for us to bring many of these fans back.

If I was a betting man, I would predict we will become something similar to Halifax in the short term: A club that does OK but has never really been in with a serious shout of SL since imploding in 2003. I could of course be wrong, in 2007 I thought we'd never see SL again but the difference this time is that people aren't really bothered if we have it or not. 

I was shell-shocked when we lost to Cas in 2007 knowing we would go under. Getting relegated on Saturday was mildly irritating for a couple of hours before I put the boxing on and forgot about it.

 

spot on MD....when I go home or meet up with friends n family from the town, nobody really gives a stuff.....you get the "ah we're shizer these days, though aren't we" comments and the rot has set in...without the paying fans (and they will dwindle even faster now) there will be financial troubles in the not too distant future

Edited by chuffer

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Could the relegation help Widnes in the long term? I don't think scraping through relegation for the last few years has actually helped them, if they are savvy they could assemble a decent championship side that competes and starts winning rather than losing, would this bring back any fans? Is it better for a club in a situation like Widnes to be constantly losing in SL or winning in the Championship?

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7 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Could the relegation help Widnes in the long term? I don't think scraping through relegation for the last few years has actually helped them, if they are savvy they could assemble a decent championship side that competes and starts winning rather than losing, would this bring back any fans? Is it better for a club in a situation like Widnes to be constantly losing in SL or winning in the Championship?

It might be more enjoyable for fans attending but I doubt it would bring many back. This is my point, the decline of Widnes (and RL in general) has left it where many people have simply moved on. They've got out of the habit of attending games. 

I used to attend as one of about 6/7. For a long time the default position was attending a home game and many of us had STs. Over time this became most games to a few games to almost no games. The default is very much not to go now.

The important this was that this wasn't a conscious decision, nobody threw their dummies out of the pram, it just slowly went that way. Even when I attend Widnes (and wider RL games tbf) I see a lot of people attending out of habit with little enjoyment.

I would still class us as latent fans who could one day be drawn back in but it won't happen just because Widnes start winning some games next year. 

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On 9/22/2018 at 8:52 PM, Thunder Road said:

Should never have got rid of Dennis Betts.....

You reap what you sow.

 

I'd have Betts at Leigh now. ...Lovely bloke who did well at Widnes. 

Betts is garbage IMHO, he's the one that got them where they are now.

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Betts was given nothing to work with but bad luck. 

Maybe he should have gone last season but maybe he also knew no one else would replace him so stuck by Widnes - idk just a thought 

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23 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It might be more enjoyable for fans attending but I doubt it would bring many back. This is my point, the decline of Widnes (and RL in general) has left it where many people have simply moved on. They've got out of the habit of attending games. 

I used to attend as one of about 6/7. For a long time the default position was attending a home game and many of us had STs. Over time this became most games to a few games to almost no games. The default is very much not to go now.

The important this was that this wasn't a conscious decision, nobody threw their dummies out of the pram, it just slowly went that way. Even when I attend Widnes (and wider RL games tbf) I see a lot of people attending out of habit with little enjoyment.

I would still class us as latent fans who could one day be drawn back in but it won't happen just because Widnes start winning some games next year. 

In the late 70s and early 80s, all the lads I knew from Penketh were supporters of Widnes rather than Warrington.  I suppose that isn't the case anymore.

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9 minutes ago, latchford albion said:

In the late 70s and early 80s, all the lads I knew from Penketh were supporters of Widnes rather than Warrington.  I suppose that isn't the case anymore.

Yeh penketh is basically "little widnes" though tbf

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On 9/25/2018 at 9:35 AM, chuffer said:

spot on MD....when I go home or meet up with friends n family from the town, nobody really gives a stuff.....you get the "ah we're shizer these days, though aren't we" comments and the rot has set in...without the paying fans (and they will dwindle even faster now) there will be financial troubles in the not too distant future

You have lost your grassroots  .

Where are the Tigers, Simmies or Maries anymore? West Bank just chucked out of NWML.

Without your feeders you have no locally based future.

Other clubs , from the bottom to the VERY top need to take serious note....the  blood transfusion that is to the pro game from  amateur game  to keep it going needs to be looked after far more than  for instance the next Aussie  walkabout.....

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6 hours ago, del capo said:

You have lost your grassroots  .

Where are the Tigers, Simmies or Maries anymore? West Bank just chucked out of NWML.

Without your feeders you have no locally based future.

Other clubs , from the bottom to the VERY top need to take serious note....the  blood transfusion that is to the pro game from  amateur game  to keep it going needs to be looked after far more than  for instance the next Aussie  walkabout.....

I don't think that's the whole story......there's plenty of junior RL in the town and plenty of talent....but historically those teams haven't tended to feed the club much anyway....some of our academy products have often come from neighbouring towns. But it goes both ways too, for as long as I can remember, anyone who shown any promise as a kid rarely ended up in the widnes academy / 1st team....they tended to be overlooked by widnes while other neighbouring town scouts would be showing an interest. weird really.

But I think it's more lack of interest in the fans, than it is necessarily lack of grass roots, that is the reason for our slow demise

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7 hours ago, del capo said:

You have lost your grassroots  .

Where are the Tigers, Simmies or Maries anymore? West Bank just chucked out of NWML.

Without your feeders you have no locally based future.

Other clubs , from the bottom to the VERY top need to take serious note....the  blood transfusion that is to the pro game from  amateur game  to keep it going needs to be looked after far more than  for instance the next Aussie  walkabout.....

The OA teams don’t produce players for Widnes academy. Simmes & Tigers have never had junior teams as far as I know

Halton-Farnworth is probably the best producer of players at the money. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with West Bank juniors after the goings on with the OA team

Edited by Spidey

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The Tigers were the original junior club with teams at every age group followed by St. Marie's. It's a crying shame that some terrible decisions and sheer bad luck lead to their virtual demise.

West Bank are very strong at junior level and the committee are working hard to rectify and overcome the recent problems.

Moorfield are expanding again after several years where it looked they were doomed.

Simmies are confident they will be back next season.

At it's peak there were 5 full junior clubs in the town and occasionally a small Runcorn club.

Since those days junior soccer participation has ballooned so it's unlikely the town will ever have the numbers playing it once had.

 

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7 hours ago, PaulF said:

West Bank are very strong at junior level and the committee are working hard to rectify and overcome the recent problems.

Hope it all goes well for you Paul, hate to see the club rep tarnished due to the actions of a few boneheads on the sidelines.

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