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Oliver Clothesoff

Hemel Stags and West Wales Raiders to be cut from League One?

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https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/16897213.york-city-knights-chairman-jon-flatman-discusses-the-importance-of-promotion/

Interesting. 

Probably fair though, if true. It’s been an uphill struggle for West Wales and Hemel went away from being a community side a few years ago with the “move” to Dewsbury and then Sheffield. 

No news on whether we’d get two replacements or not. If not, we’d be down to a twenty-two game regular season. Would that be enough? Or would a League One Cup have to return in order to pad out the season? Four groups of three and the winners of each into Semi-Finals?

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Isn't this just taking the rumours about 'League One South' (see other thread), adding two and two together, and getting five?

Also, IF West Wales and Hemel don't make 2019, then that division will actually be down to 10 clubs - making for an 18 game regular season? 

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2 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Isn't this just taking the rumours about 'League One South' (see other thread), adding two and two together, and getting five?

Also, IF West Wales and Hemel don't make 2019, then that division will actually be down to 10 clubs - making for an 18 game regular season? 

Possibly, who knows?

Ah, yes, you’re right. I forgot about the format change. Eighteen games is definitely too few. 

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Not sure of the exact figures but Davey has blown £16M on the giants, and in the end of the day for what ?

Lenigan  is something like £10M into Wigan, how come such a big club even need a penny, Soething wrong there.

 

Just think if West Wales and Stags had a fraction of what has been blown on those two clubs, I am sure they would be great asset to our game and an overall benefit to its growth and expansion.

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I wish all Clubswell but I just dont see any point/benefit in a team called Hemel H,playing in Yorks,infront of a couple of hundred spectators.Equally,I can't see the point in a team in south Wales travelling to Cumbria and getting beaten by a hundred points.Surely both would do better playing in a southern league and gradually developing?

I had high hopes for the original Hemel club.

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3 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sport/16897213.york-city-knights-chairman-jon-flatman-discusses-the-importance-of-promotion/

Interesting. 

Probably fair though, if true. It’s been an uphill struggle for West Wales and Hemel went away from being a community side a few years ago with the “move” to Dewsbury and then Sheffield. 

No news on whether we’d get two replacements or not. If not, we’d be down to a twenty-two game regular season. Would that be enough? Or would a League One Cup have to return in order to pad out the season? Four groups of three and the winners of each into Semi-Finals?

I believe we will see a smaller League One and I cant see any return for a Gloucester, Bristol or Oxford.

 

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6 minutes ago, cookey said:

I wish all Clubswell but I just dont see any point/benefit in a team called Hemel H,playing in Yorks,infront of a couple of hundred spectators.Equally,I can't see the point in a team in south Wales travelling to Cumbria and getting beaten by a hundred points.Surely both would do better playing in a southern league and gradually developing?

I had high hopes for the original Hemel club.

You're quite right.

The whole model for how RL is structured really does need a rethink. It's not populace enough for regional leagues and huge strength disparities make national leagues unviable. 

I can only actually think of another model that might fill the gap but the M62 clubs would hate it and the RFL couldn't afford it or organise it...

... have a regional competition that sits between the club competition and test level. Have four regions - North, Midlands, South-West and London/S.East. Only England declared players compete for the regions in a round-robin tournament released from their clubs. It's the only way I can see RL gaining any sort of recognition/foothold outside the heartlands. 

How players are allocated to which region is the big problem!

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14 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I believe we will see a smaller League One and I cant see any return for a Gloucester, Bristol or Oxford.

 

Ten teams seems too few. 

A League One Cup of two pools of five perhaps is one option to fill the gaps left behind or teams could play each other three times, creating a twenty-seven game season. 

I think it’s too soon for the Red Star Belgrade’s, North American sides or Dublin to come onboard. 

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It would be nice to have a 12/14 team league but not just for the sake of having 14 teams - it does the game absolutely no good to see a 'professional' club beaten by 100 points,infront of 100 people.Other sports just laugh.Can you imagine Rutland being put in the County Championship and beaten by an innings and 300 runs or St Ives being put in the Rugby Championship and beaten by 120 points every week.Am I missing something,what is the point,it just makes us a laughing stock.

Cricket seems to manage quite well with 18 professional clubs in 2 divisions,with minor counties beneath.Rugby Union essentially has one professional league and their Championship with another 4/5 full time clubs.However,they have the sense to have strong regional set ups,from which Clubs can prosper,if they have the infrastructure.

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18 minutes ago, cookey said:

It would be nice to have a 12/14 team league but not just for the sake of having 14 teams - it does the game absolutely no good to see a 'professional' club beaten by 100 points,infront of 100 people.Other sports just laugh.Can you imagine Rutland being put in the County Championship and beaten by an innings and 300 runs or St Ives being put in the Rugby Championship and beaten by 120 points every week.Am I missing something,what is the point,it just makes us a laughing stock.

Cricket seems to manage quite well with 18 professional clubs in 2 divisions,with minor counties beneath.Rugby Union essentially has one professional league and their Championship with another 4/5 full time clubs.However,they have the sense to have strong regional set ups,from which Clubs can prosper,if they have the infrastructure.

I think you’re overestimating the fact that people have heard or even care about 3rd division rugby for anyone to think we’re a laughing stock. 

There are some cricket clubs in division 2 like Leicestershire which are serial whipping boys and if some had their way, the number of counties would be reduced. The 2 division setup was brought in as a compromise

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This league which has been so vibrant is obviously just a leftover from all the restructurings and decision making . They don’t really know what to do with it , or probably care . Reducing teams even more will be a big problem . It’s a shame after it was garnering momentum , now it seems there’s more questions  after everything else is sorted 

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23 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I think you’re overestimating the fact that people have heard or even care about 3rd division rugby for anyone to think we’re a laughing stock. 

There are some cricket clubs in division 2 like Leicestershire which are serial whipping boys and if some had their way, the number of counties would be reduced. The 2 division setup was brought in as a compromise

You wouldn't believe the number of people who have come up to me recently to tell me what a laughing stock RL is because WWR keep losing by huge scores. Well you might because it's the sum total of zero.

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About bl**dy time, they should have done this month's ago and expunged both team's records, lack of leadership as usual, and none of that ###### about having a new Aussie coach, his standard can be judged by the fact that the only gig he can get is WWR.

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3 hours ago, cookey said:

I wish all Clubswell but I just dont see any point/benefit in a team called Hemel H,playing in Yorks,infront of a couple of hundred spectators.Equally,I can't see the point in a team in south Wales travelling to Cumbria and getting beaten by a hundred points.Surely both would do better playing in a southern league and gradually developing?

I had high hopes for the original Hemel club.


Just my opinion, unlearned as it is, but Hemel seemed to cannibalise themselves to be a professional team.  Realistically, they needed to clone themselves at amateur level, ringfence the juniors with volunteers, get out there and spread RL across their catchment area and build bridges with their former rival St Albans.  Hertfordshire is one of the better stacked counties, I used to semi-jokingly call it "the Hertslands".  However, Hemel are right over to the west of the county.  Luton and even Leighton Buzzard, in neighbouring Bedfordshire, are closer to Hemel than Hitchin, where North Herts play.   This is supposed to be why the RFL ignore men's rugby at the expense of kids rugby, which is to get kids into the system and create the next generation of pros and Hemel singularly failed at this.  Look at the issues Skolars have had with recruiting and finding players who are prepared to travel across the country for not very much money.

When I first heard about "League One South", it was pre-EGM and was sold to me as somewhere to send West Wales and Hemel when they get cut.  Now, they can't be cut because the division is only 12 teams.  If Bristol was definitely happening, I think it would be the end of West Wales, whose existence is complete nonsense anyway.

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7 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Ten teams seems too few. 

A League One Cup of two pools of five perhaps is one option to fill the gaps left behind or teams could play each other three times, creating a twenty-seven game season. 

I think it’s too soon for the Red Star Belgrade’s, North American sides or Dublin to come onboard. 

Cost cutting exercise.

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If a reason to have L1 is to develop the game it’s important clubs have a strategy and necessary support to sustain and grow. You can see that with say Coventry and us and Newcastle even though crowds and performance vary. I think we need to give West Wales another season but clearly the current model doesn’t work* and if there’s no sign of improvement then I cannot see the point. I have no idea what Hemels plan is. It’s a shame. I used to watch them when I lived in Watford, a decade or so ago but I’m struggling to see the point. There were only 160 people at New River when we played them (and they couldn’t field a full time). 

*I was in Cardiff this weekend. West Wales is seen as the back of beyond there, really hard to get too. We really need to focus on building RL in places like there in South Wales. I saw Skolars play Scorpians in Cardiff a few seasons ago at Cardiff Arms Park, there was a decent crowd. 

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9 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

If a reason to have L1 is to develop the game it’s important clubs have a strategy and necessary support to sustain and grow. You can see that with say Coventry and us and Newcastle even though crowds and performance vary. I think we need to give West Wales another season but clearly the current model doesn’t work* and if there’s no sign of improvement then I cannot see the point. I have no idea what Hemels plan is. It’s a shame. I used to watch them when I lived in Watford, a decade or so ago but I’m struggling to see the point. There were only 160 people at New River when we played them (and they couldn’t field a full time). 

*I was in Cardiff this weekend. West Wales is seen as the back of beyond there, really hard to get too. We really need to focus on building RL in places like there in South Wales. I saw Skolars play Scorpians in Cardiff a few seasons ago at Cardiff Arms Park, there was a decent crowd. 

This. 

I’m all for giving WWR another go. Hemel, I’m the same, they were doing everything right it seemed and have gone away from that with limited/no success. What their next move is, is anyone’s guess. 

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I’ve got a lot more time for West Wales than Hemel. 

West Wales are at least trying to do something to grow the game. Whether they succeed is anyone’s guess.

Hemel on the other hand might be the biggest joke in rugby league, and that’s saying something. 

They’re contributing nothing whatsoever to the game. All they do is take the money from the RFL and pay a bunch of journeymen to travel down to Hemel to get thrashed. I recently visited Pennine Way, the pitch was covered in dog excrement and bandages, the dug outs had weeds growing in them and the clubhouse looked like a soviet prison. 

If the RFL had even an ounce of common sense they’d stop giving Hemel any more money and give it to a team that is genuinely trying to grow the game. 

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Think this total speculation regarding both clubs, can't see anything happening till 2021. Seen on the community page Hemel advertising for a reserve coach, giving there junior's a pathway. Looking for the next Sarginson, Dixon, Acton all from Hemel 

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County Cricket is an awful example to use of a sporting competition we should look up to. RL is far, far from perfect, but I'm not sure that the whole structure of cricket below the England team isn't in a bit of bother.

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13 hours ago, cookey said:

I wish all Clubswell but I just dont see any point/benefit in a team called Hemel H,playing in Yorks,infront of a couple of hundred spectators.Equally,I can't see the point in a team in south Wales travelling to Cumbria and getting beaten by a hundred points.Surely both would do better playing in a southern league and gradually developing?

I had high hopes for the original Hemel club.

I would say that at least West Wales are bring Welsh boys into the game. while as far as i can see H H are doing Zero to encourage young players from their area..

As regards league 1 itself and the club numbers, if the some French side teams are serious about entering the British structure and they have a proper business plans why not put them in league 1 the same as Toulouse and Toronto did

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The trouble with getting rid of West Wales and Hemel would be that the pressure would then be on Coventry and the Skolars who would then become the weakest teams.

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