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Tommygilf

What now for Toronto?

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5 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

They were favourites after Round 1.

I expect Bradford to be full time and spend a bit more next year....i could be wrong.

York and Batley will take points off the top teams..........my point is it'll be a lot harder next year

I guess the point I'm making is that if anyone had said before the season they'd lose the MPG by 2 points, that would have been seen as a great success. The narrative changed for 2 reasons.

1 The total failure of Leigh to compete.

2 Widnes proving to be the least competitive SL side since London were last in.

Toronto became favourites to go up somewhat by default, rather than any breathtaking form of their own.

Probably they have missed a golden chance to go up, but the very worst thing for them would have been to have gone up, had this squad's obvious shortcomings exposed on a weekly basis, and got relegated.

Edited by dixiedean
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22 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

TWP have been doing a hell of a lot right for 2 and a bit years now, keep on the horse and push for SL next year.

No they have not done anything right.

 For the umpteenth time both the SL bosses and Eric Perez knew what was “right” for TWP to earn a place in Superleague. It was “right” to develop Canadian players ASAP, and it was “right” to find a TV contract at a high enough level of payment from a North American TV company for TWP and fellow SL clubs to share.

Neither of those “Right things” for their entry to SL have been delivered. It’s as simple as that…

22 hours ago, Futtocks said:

They have stated again and again that getting into SL is a five year plan. All the rejoicing we will see over the next few days from the myopic tendency will be like water off a duck's back for the Wolfpack, and lessons will be learned.

Losing today could be a long-term bonus, if they are smart enough to see what needs to be done. And I definitely think they are smart enough.

I’m afraid it is your blind enthusiasm for a seismic change in RL from being a parochial northern English game to a Transatlantic wide game that is the “tendency” here. That is daydreaming not some great vision on your behalf.

 In the end two full time Championship clubs who have easily crushed part time clubs with little money have played off for an SL place and the reality is neither were likely to have done anything in SL other than get relegated again…..

 I noticed in the sunday paper before the game Mr. Argyle waxing lyrical about his plans once SL was secured.  He stated that his intention was to chase the world’s best Rugby players which the interviewer suggested were Sam Burgess, Sonny Bill Williamson and Owen Farrell. 

The interviewer noted Argyle did not disagree with this suggestion, and Argyle went on to say that his club would of course be speaking to the agents of the top ten players in each code accordingly. After this talk turned to all the NA clubs to follow TWP with New York, Boston and Philadelphia named outright.

Of course any idea TWP may field a star studded International Union/League combo of the world’s best players may be hampered by a Salary cap, if this was actually serious.  But of course it’s not and Messrs Perez and Argyle are having a laugh, and you two are falling for it.

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Yesterday proved that TWP need to strengthen. They need a stronger squad and better top end players to be sure of getting out of the Championship next season, because, just like this season, in the end it will come down to one game and they will need to win it.

I think next season will be a big test for TWP. How will the fans react to the first setback for TWP? Will crowds be bigger or smaller?Recently there have been close, exciting games, yes TWP lost some but they were far more entertaining than some of the one-sided ones earlier in the season (taking nothing away from the visiting teams) and if TWP strengthen how one-sided will some games be next season?

Interesting times! Interesting times!

Is it February yet?

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If Toronto Wolfpack truly are the real deal then yesterday was actually the best thing that could have happened.

Building a sporting history isn't just about unbridled success it's about pain as well.

If David Argyle is fully committed to this project one more year won't make any difference and for the TWP if they win next year's Grand Final it will mean immeasurably more to their fans than if they had breezed to victory yesterday.

On a side note it's great to have London Broncos back in the Super League, if they hadn't won yesterday there would have been no knowing how long it would have taken them to return to the top flight.

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35 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

No they have not done anything right.

 For the umpteenth time both the SL bosses and Eric Perez knew what was “right” for TWP to earn a place in Superleague. It was “right” to develop Canadian players ASAP, and it was “right” to find a TV contract at a high enough level of payment from a North American TV company for TWP and fellow SL clubs to share.

Neither of those “Right things” for their entry to SL have been delivered. It’s as simple as that…

I’m afraid it is your blind enthusiasm for a seismic change in RL from being a parochial northern English game to a Transatlantic wide game that is the “tendency” here. That is daydreaming not some great vision on your behalf.

 In the end two full time Championship clubs who have easily crushed part time clubs with little money have played off for an SL place and the reality is neither were likely to have done anything in SL other than get relegated again…..

 I noticed in the sunday paper before the game Mr. Argyle waxing lyrical about his plans once SL was secured.  He stated that his intention was to chase the world’s best Rugby players which the interviewer suggested were Sam Burgess, Sonny Bill Williamson and Owen Farrell. 

The interviewer noted Argyle did not disagree with this suggestion, and Argyle went on to say that his club would of course be speaking to the agents of the top ten players in each code accordingly. After this talk turned to all the NA clubs to follow TWP with New York, Boston and Philadelphia named outright.

Of course any idea TWP may field a star studded International Union/League combo of the world’s best players may be hampered by a Salary cap, if this was actually serious.  But of course it’s not and Messrs Perez and Argyle are having a laugh, and you two are falling for it.

   Why should Toronto have the responsibility for getting a good television deal?

    Those clubs in existence for 100+ years are going to struggle,I suspect.

    Canadian players will take as many years to develop as they did for Melbourne Storm,ie approx 14/15 years.

    London Broncos players,through their system apparently numbered 13 in their victorious squad.The full back went via Hemel - that club one or two want throwing out of the semi-professional ranks.There were even a number of Welsh players amongst those earning a place in Super League.The sport in the south/south east has therefore taken a few years for development.

    It will be interesting to see how well the elite club owners and Elstone go about their business to increase profile,popularity and wealth for the sport.

    Toronto have their own needs - beating more full time sides in The Championship next year.

     

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     Born - didn't ask. Dying - didn't argue                                 

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Hey calm down everybody.  Talk about hitting the panic button.  Its sport...you win some, you lose some.  Sure there will be some changes, but Argyle; If you could have seen him before the game in the 3 Brewers with Rimmer you would understand, is all in.  No worries.  Also Argyle was the first one on the field to congratulate our players and help raise their spirits after the game...what an owner we have!

Just think, we get the fun of knocking the stuffing out of Championship again next year.   No mercy this time though. Need a great center and two new top flight bruising forwards to finish the picture.

I know i lost a bet but I forget to who but am currently getting the receipt to post on here...no worries....was it you MjM?

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56 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

No they have not done anything right.

 For the umpteenth time both the SL bosses and Eric Perez knew what was “right” for TWP to earn a place in Superleague. It was “right” to develop Canadian players ASAP, and it was “right” to find a TV contract at a high enough level of payment from a North American TV company for TWP and fellow SL clubs to share.

Neither of those “Right things” for their entry to SL have been delivered. It’s as simple as that…

I’m afraid it is your blind enthusiasm for a seismic change in RL from being a parochial northern English game to a Transatlantic wide game that is the “tendency” here. That is daydreaming not some great vision on your behalf.

 In the end two full time Championship clubs who have easily crushed part time clubs with little money have played off for an SL place and the reality is neither were likely to have done anything in SL other than get relegated again…..

 I noticed in the sunday paper before the game Mr. Argyle waxing lyrical about his plans once SL was secured.  He stated that his intention was to chase the world’s best Rugby players which the interviewer suggested were Sam Burgess, Sonny Bill Williamson and Owen Farrell. 

The interviewer noted Argyle did not disagree with this suggestion, and Argyle went on to say that his club would of course be speaking to the agents of the top ten players in each code accordingly. After this talk turned to all the NA clubs to follow TWP with New York, Boston and Philadelphia named outright.

Of course any idea TWP may field a star studded International Union/League combo of the world’s best players ma)y be hampered by a Salary cap, if this was actually serious.  But of course it’s not and Messrs Perez and Argyle are having a laugh, and you two are falling for it.

I bet you are a real wow at parties!!!! ?

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

No they have not done anything right.

 For the umpteenth time both the SL bosses and Eric Perez knew what was “right” for TWP to earn a place in Superleague. It was “right” to develop Canadian players ASAP, and it was “right” to find a TV contract at a high enough level of payment from a North American TV company for TWP and fellow SL clubs to share.

Neither of those “Right things” for their entry to SL have been delivered. It’s as simple as that…

I’m afraid it is your blind enthusiasm for a seismic change in RL from being a parochial northern English game to a Transatlantic wide game that is the “tendency” here. That is daydreaming not some great vision on your behalf.

 In the end two full time Championship clubs who have easily crushed part time clubs with little money have played off for an SL place and the reality is neither were likely to have done anything in SL other than get relegated again…..

 I noticed in the sunday paper before the game Mr. Argyle waxing lyrical about his plans once SL was secured.  He stated that his intention was to chase the world’s best Rugby players which the interviewer suggested were Sam Burgess, Sonny Bill Williamson and Owen Farrell. 

The interviewer noted Argyle did not disagree with this suggestion, and Argyle went on to say that his club would of course be speaking to the agents of the top ten players in each code accordingly. After this talk turned to all the NA clubs to follow TWP with New York, Boston and Philadelphia named outright.

Of course any idea TWP may field a star studded International Union/League combo of the world’s best players may be hampered by a Salary cap, if this was actually serious.  But of course it’s not and Messrs Perez and Argyle are having a laugh, and you two are falling for it.

Following a day on which many RL fans marvelled at the phenomenon of a play off game in Canada between two expansion teams before 9,266...this is an absolutely miserable missive.

I do not see that there is any great attraction in posting doom, gloom and pestilence day after day,  and the thought occurs that RL is perhaps not the game for the writer.

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7 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I bet you are a real wow at parties!!!! ?

You could have Blenheim Palace with fireworks, free beer for guests, Brandies from the Napoleonic era, the cirque du soleil performing in the garden whilst the Royal Philharmonic orchestra played Beethoven in the main hall to the tune of a light show and i have a feeling "some people" would say you'd done nothing!!!

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36 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

For any TFC supporters, how much did last night remind you of going out to Seattle in the cup final on penalties? 

The pain was similar, but TFC truly deserved to win that one (where they did not allow a shot in the game), whereas most agree the Broncos deserved this victory, as their defense matched ours, and we made more errors.

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1 hour ago, Michael1812 said:

For any TFC supporters, how much did last night remind you of going out to Seattle in the cup final on penalties? 

I think what last night proved is that Toronto is just a city of losers ?:ninja:

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Rowley to stay another season, he needs another shot.  Three held ups yesterday and three botched tries.

London played out of there skins yesterday but were lucky to come away with it.  They didn't look the better team in attack.

Walker had a cracker at Fullback.

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15 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Rowley to stay another season, he needs another shot.  Three held ups yesterday and three botched tries.

London played out of there skins yesterday but were lucky to come away with it.  They didn't look the better team in attack.

Walker had a cracker at Fullback.

He did. Incidentally he broke a finger and dislocated 3 others in that disallowed try  in the second minute!

 

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Just now, dixiedean said:

He did. Incidentally he broke a finger and dislocated 3 others in that disallowed try  in the second minute!

 

Yep, he was put under immense pressure a couple of times and did well to field a number of kicks!

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1 hour ago, Manxmanc said:

Following a day on which many RL fans marvelled at the phenomenon of a play off game in Canada between two expansion teams before 9,266...this is an absolutely miserable missive.

I do not see that there is any great attraction in posting doom, gloom and pestilence day after day,  and the thought occurs that RL is perhaps not the game for the writer.

I don't understand why it bothers some of you so much. Parky is giving his views and he makes what, to me at least, seem like some reasonable points. Does everyone have to be a cheerleader for Toronto and everything to do with expansion? As an outside observer, I could counter what you've said above by saying that I've seen plenty of comments that I would consider to be detached from any sort of reality, when it comes to looking at the state of the sport.

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Just now, 17 stone giant said:

I don't understand why it bothers some of you so much. Parky is giving his views and he makes what, to me at least, seem like some reasonable points. Does everyone have to be a cheerleader for Toronto and everything to do with expansion? As an outside observer, I could counter what you've said above by saying that I've seen plenty of comments that I would consider to be detached from any sort of reality, when it comes to looking at the state of the sport.

Polarisation again. Yes, The Parksider gives thoughtful and considered responses and makes some very valid points. However, the implications of his general direction of thought is that our game is in a state of slow and irreversible decline ending in death. Not only that, his disparagement of people's hopes, dreams and vision sucks the life out of the topic.

If, as has been implied or suggested, he is closely involved in the game in some way, then yes, it does add weight to his argument. It also suggests reasons why the game is where it is today.  All of course, a matter of opinion.

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18 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Yep, he was put under immense pressure a couple of times and did well to field a number of kicks!

Not to mention one of the best, and certainly most important tackles of the season, holding up Wallace when he seemed a certain scorer.

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50 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I think what last night proved is that Toronto is just a city of losers ?:ninja:

If you are not familiar with the story, Toronto went on again to face Seattle in the cup final the following year and absolutely smashed them. Hoping for a nice redemption story for the Wolfpack. 

But honestly, your statement is not far from the truth. 

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6 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I don't understand why it bothers some of you so much. Parky is giving his views and he makes what, to me at least, seem like some reasonable points. Does everyone have to be a cheerleader for Toronto and everything to do with expansion? As an outside observer, I could counter what you've said above by saying that I've seen plenty of comments that I would consider to be detached from any sort of reality, when it comes to looking at the state of the sport.

It doesn't bother me as such; it's just rather sad that that it's all overwhelmingly negative, tediously repetitious, often with a lack of respect for other posters and with rarely a flicker of empathy for others.

i actually like engaging with other posters and not being crushingly negative; I don't take any pleasure in taking the above view..

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3 hours ago, Manxmanc said:

Following a day on which many RL fans marvelled at the phenomenon of a play off game in Canada between two expansion teams before 9,266...this is an absolutely miserable missive.I do not see that there is any great attraction in posting doom, gloom and pestilence day after day,  and the thought occurs that RL is perhaps not the game for the writer.

You wrote on another thread:-

"With the MPG looming up, this might be a good time to reflect on where we are with expansion of the game, in its widest sense. I’ve jotted down a few thoughts, but any comments or additional or corrected details on any bids would certainly be helpful. This started as just a brief exercise, but I’m amazed that it’s become such a long list and I'm running out of gas".

You wrote as though the game was exploding across the Northern Hemisphere with investors just itching to get RL going in places they play at a very low level or simply don't play it at all, so you have a real cheek to criticise me for simply wanting to talk about the game as it is in the real world.

You have no evidence that "many RL fans marvelled" at TWP.v. Toronto. I went to see TWP at Halifax and Leeds and there was no "marvelling" everyone knew it was Rowley's old Leigh team. 

You have no evidence London are an expansion team. We took Tests to London in 1908 and had three London clubs in the league in the 1930's. The latest club is 38 years old and has "contracted" this last few years. Why can't you deal with the reality??

Why can't you understand it's your own tedious repetition of this fantasy world that draws such counter comments?

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

 The Parksider gives thoughtful and considered responses and makes some very valid points. However, the implications of his general direction of thought is that our game is in a state of slow and irreversible decline ending in death. Not only that, his disparagement of people's hopes, dreams and vision sucks the life out of the topic.

It is quite possible John that the game could end in death here but I very much doubt it as long as we support our game and do not support the idea it should be transferred across to Canada where the game there actually died out twice, in the Early 1960's and early 2000's. 

This forum is great for talking Rugby League but too many posters take it down the fantasy route. As other posters have said - who sadly do not bother to come on here any more - it's too much fantasy talk - so as an enthusiast for Rugby League of many years I have the right to hold realist viewpoints, and provide some much needed reality in what is becoming a dream world on here.

You may be titilated by dreams and fantasies John, but I get my enjoyment from the revival of the Bulls and York, from the professionalisation of the real life English game, and from the massive respect it gets when clubs like Leeds, Catalans, Wigan, Saints Cas & Warrrington show their wares to the Sporting public.

We are a small game with a big heart and big respect and I reserve the right to talk us up as such and disagree wholeheartedly with the fantasy stuff without being told by individuals that somehow I don't like the game and more than that told I think it will die. It's quite rude.

2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I don't understand why it bothers some of you so much. Parky is giving his views and he makes what, to me at least, seem like some reasonable points. Does everyone have to be a cheerleader for Toronto and everything to do with expansion? As an outside observer, I could counter what you've said above by saying that I've seen plenty of comments that I would consider to be detached from any sort of reality, when it comes to looking at the state of the sport.

This is my point exactly. I despair when people come on here and disparage our clubs calling them "small towns people have never heard of" and tell me the future lies in places like New York. I posted an article that was written about the New York bid that really did go to town on what an ultimate ridiculous fantasy that was. But oh no, we have to have New York shoved down our throat every other day, yet I can't talk reality in what John calls "considered" and "valid" ways.

Yes it would be lovely if they were to start a club in New York, and New York people came and watched it in their thousands, and New Yorkers started playing it and one day England played the USA etc. etc. etc. But this isn't what we are actually talking about.

What people are talking about is shutting down professional clubs here and moving playing rosters to places that don't play Rugby League. Do you and your friends on here Manxman not understand that this is not "expansion" it is "substitution" and that WILL kill the game - so it isn't so much me talking about the game dying John, not at all. It is the likes of Manxman plotting it........

I am talking about people who would kill it by taking it and it's players away from Wigan, Warrington, St, Helens, Leeds, Hull, Bradford etc and transplanting it in Toronto, New York and a series of places that have not even made a bid, probably because no investor in Hamilton Canada has any interest. In fact I don't know of any American investors....

I know the points I make are serious, well thought out, realistic and true because nobody ever answers them with any valid counter points, instead I'm called all sorts of names, and the focus is swung quickly away from truth's like it doesn't matter that 9,266 people watched the MPG in Toronto.

It matters that that enthusiasm leads to them actually playing the game themselves there and that in doing so they generate revenue from it to share here, and develop players to enable true expansion to happen.Even Mr. Perez acknowledges that!

I don't expect any grown up considered answer to this point, probably more abuse? Probably more "I've put Parky on ignore" for that's what you have to do to live in a fantasy world comfortably....

Edited by The Parksider
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On 10/8/2018 at 3:45 AM, Tommygilf said:

What changes will we see in the off season? In my opinion certain things have to change but somethings must remain.

McCrone has to go. Not good enough and costs more in how refs view the team than he brings to the team. He'd argue that the Pope wasn't a catholic.

Rowley out. That team looked like a Rowley team - dull and uninspiring in attack, dirty and grubby in defence. As Leigh posters on here have said in the past, Rowley can get you to this point, but is unlikely to get you any further. A new coach 

Sims and O'Brien to stay. They have to hold onto them as they'll be crucial for a promotion push next year and are assets to the club of the field too. They're the standouts but there's a good core of a squad there especially with the new recruits coming too.

Most importantly... keep going! TWP have been doing a hell of a lot right for 2 and a bit years now, keep on the horse and push for SL next year.

The Wolf pack will just strengthen again next season. Remember its only their 2nd season

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Just now, The Future is League said:

The Wolf pack will just strengthen again next season. Remember its only their 2nd season

Need a top class center and two or three big top notch bruising forwards.  Wings look good.  Fullback good.  Pack needs strengthening.  Half back good.  GM and Coach good.  Best owner in the business.  Fans good.

Great things in the future.

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1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

your own tedious repetition

From you?  

 

?

Edited by TheReaper
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