Sign in to follow this  
jim_57

England Knights - Can they help develop a local rivalry?

Recommended Posts

Thinking about the impact of Australia's apparent preference to play NZ and Pacific Islands than host GB/England. Is it time to seriously now focus on how England can develop a local rivalry and what initiatives could help bring France, Wales and others along?

To me this is where England Knights could really help (hear me out!). I don't think the best use for the Knights is to play full national teams, mainly because it is a bad look and the experience could be better used by younger players from countries like France & Wales.

I'd look at an annual post-season games with England Knights playing France Under 23s twice a year to start. Using the younger players for France could help bridge the gap between juniors where there are competitive and tests where they struggle. England Knights is a loose concept, England could still use it to develop players and mould them in to the England set up like they do currently. The same could be said for the French Under 23 team, use it to get players accustomed to the national set up until they're ready for the full test team.

If reasonably successful try similar with Wales as well, maybe even Serbia, Russia, Spain etc much further down the line.

I'm certainly not proposing this as an alternative to full Internationals, ideally England would play France at test, 'A' and Junior levels every year at least once.

Edited by jim_57
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

England Knights should be playing a European Nations Cup with France, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 

 

Except at least a couple of those countries have said there's no way they are willing to play England unless its the first team.

I don't disagree with your concept Oliver, but somehow we have to convince the likes of Ireland that it will actually be better for them to play the 'Knights' (or similar) and lose 42-18, than it would be to play the full squad and lose 96-0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We complain the Aussies are arrogant and that they should be playing full internationals against the likes of PNG etc rather than the Presidents XIII. Yet we are no different with England Knights. The Knights should be playing NZ A or Aus A; not full nation sides.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

We complain the Aussies are arrogant and that they should be playing full internationals against the likes of PNG etc rather than the Presidents XIII. Yet we are no different with England Knights. The Knights should be playing NZ A or Aus A; not full nation sides.

Prime Ministers XIII, there is no Australia A as far as I am aware and I can not imagine there will ever be one.

Edited by Allora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PNG are happy enough playing the Aussie PM’s XIII and England Knights, I don’t know why others aren’t so keen to be playing International games, potentially building team spirit and team cohesion, raising profile of the game and their national side in their respective countries and getting in some match practice ahead of World Cup Qualifiers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So call our lot May's 13 that should inspire the Scots, Irish, and Welsh against them if nothing else.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

England A shouldn't be playing first teams. An A team stuffing a first team does nothing for no one.

They should be playing Australia A, NZ A, the Maoris, Aboriginals, etc.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if this is gonna be shown anywhere over here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

PNG are happy enough playing the Aussie PM’s XIII 

PNG were trying to get that game given test match status so that both they and Australia would field their strongest side, and it would have a bearing on rankings. The PNGRL and sponsors were pushing for the change which, in the event didn't happen.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

England Knights should be playing a European Nations Cup with France, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. 

 

Why would those nations want to play England's reserves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Why would those nations want to play England's reserves?

 1. They’d actually get to play games of International Rugby League. 

2. It would be a closer standard than the full England team. 

3. They’d get flogged by less than the England team. 

4. It would be a proper tournament. 

5. These are secondary nations and shouldn’t be playing elite nations unless a World Cup allows for such. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

 1. They’d actually get to play games of International Rugby League. 

2. It would be a closer standard than the full England team. 

3. They’d get flogged by less than the England team. 

4. It would be a proper tournament. 

5. These are secondary nations and shouldn’t be playing elite nations unless a World Cup allows for such. 

I think maybe more of a pride and nationalistic issue, especially if the countries involved are close and have rivalries.

Logistically it would be a lose lose situation. Win and people would say it was only against an A team, lose and it would be extremely dispiriting.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Niels said:

I think maybe more of a pride and nationalistic issue, especially if the countries involved are close and have rivalries.

Logistically it would be a lose lose situation. Win and people would say it was only against an A team, lose and it would be extremely dispiriting.

 

Surely it’s just as ‘extremely dispiriting’ when teams like London Broncos, London Skolars and Coventry Bears turn over teams with 100+ years of RL history behind them? 

People didn’t seem to moan when England A were around in the past and played the likes of Samoa and Tonga. Wasn’t there a game at Widnes that was an utter farce due to the number of brawls in it? Why it’s now a problem in 2018, I just don’t get it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

We complain the Aussies are arrogant and that they should be playing full internationals against the likes of PNG etc rather than the Presidents XIII. Yet we are no different with England Knights. The Knights should be playing NZ A or Aus A; not full nation sides.

Hence the Under 23 idea. Playing the Knights in a Euro Cup or any type of tournament with full test nations is one of the worst ideas that gets thrown around here way too often.

England Knights should be something similar to an under 23s team and they should be playing the likes of under 23/20s, other A teams, comp select sides (Elite 1, Digicel Cup), the odd game against national sides wouldn't be that bad either. Full tournaments should be out of the question though.

Edited by jim_57
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

 1. They’d actually get to play games of International Rugby League. 

2. It would be a closer standard than the full England team. 

3. They’d get flogged by less than the England team. 

4. It would be a proper tournament. 

5. These are secondary nations and shouldn’t be playing elite nations unless a World Cup allows for such. 

Ireland RL completely disagree. 

Edited by GeordieSaint

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Ireland RL completely disagree. 

Don't bring facts into this!

Seriously though, we need some sort of strategy for raising the standard in Europe (France and Wales in particular as the best bets need to be the focus) because England having a lack of local opponents is damaging. And it needs to be something more than simply hoping Wales U16s will show up well in a one-off game and that SL clubs will be able to entice a couple of them to move north. That should only be one limb of it.

There needs to be a much stronger focus on internationals. I mean, we still don't know why the two St Helens players are missing from Wales' RLWC qualifying campaign this autumn. Put Grace and Knowles in the side and Wales are a much, much stronger proposition and yet, as it stand, Scotland might well qualify from this competition and yet the game barely exists in that country. The ad hoc nature of it all really isn't helping at all, we need a plan and the commitment to carry it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Don't bring facts into this!

Seriously though, we need some sort of strategy for raising the standard in Europe (France and Wales in particular as the best bets need to be the focus) because England having a lack of local opponents is damaging. And it needs to be something more than simply hoping Wales U16s will show up well in a one-off game and that SL clubs will be able to entice a couple of them to move north. That should only be one limb of it.

There needs to be a much stronger focus on internationals. I mean, we still don't know why the two St Helens players are missing from Wales' RLWC qualifying campaign this autumn. Put Grace and Knowles in the side and Wales are a much, much stronger proposition and yet, as it stand, Scotland might well qualify from this competition and yet the game barely exists in that country. The ad hoc nature of it all really isn't helping at all, we need a plan and the commitment to carry it out.

Can only think that Wales are building for the next World Cup and believe that Grace and Knowles are ‘definites’ for that team - so they want to test some other players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the wider subject of the England Knights - why not just dump the concept, play as England, but put out younger more experimental sides against the other Northern Hemisphere teams in competitions excluding the World Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Ireland RL completely disagree. 

More fool them. 

PNG are willing to play them and they’re a far bigger RL playing nation than Ireland. Arrogance from them? None. But Ireland?! There’s no RL presence there anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

On the wider subject of the England Knights - why not just dump the concept, play as England, but put out younger more experimental sides against the other Northern Hemisphere teams in competitions excluding the World Cup.

There is a place for the Knights but it should never be instead of the full strength national team so there is room for both.

I don't imagine the RFL would be making any money out of Knights touring PNG but they obviously see the benifit. England Knights have plenty of potential opponents without muddying the waters in full International tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


League Express Yearbook 2018/19 - Order Now


Rugby League World - Nov 2018

Rugby League World - Nov 2018



League Express - Online Now

League Express - Every Monday