Sign in to follow this  
RayCee

NZ Player Numbers Up

Recommended Posts

In part: There's been an "explosion" in the number of women and children playing rugby league, New Zealand Rugby League says. "We've almost doubled numbers in the last two or three years in the women's game," chief executive Greg Peters said.

The full article: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/10/rugby-league-player-numbers-up-after-world-cup.html

Women and children it seems. As it says keeping them now is the challenge. In a few years time the NRL talent scouts will have another batch of players to cherry pick from. Perhaps it's time for a second NRL side in NZ. Long overdue IMO.

Edited by RayCee
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic news. I have longed for a 2nd NZ side and think that it would be fantastic for the international game and the game in NZ.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good that kids & women's numbers are up but doubling amount of women's players means 300 to 600. What hasn't been mentioned is the amount of men playing the sport is decreasing. A 2nd NZ NRL team sadly would seem to be some way off...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Good that kids & women's numbers are up but doubling amount of women's players means 300 to 600. What hasn't been mentioned is the amount of men playing the sport is decreasing. A 2nd NZ NRL team sadly would seem to be some way off...

It also said nearly a thousand more children. You're saying the women's numbers are up 300. 

So what is the reduction in the men's numbers Kiwis?

Edited by RayCee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, RayCee said:

Perhaps it's time for a second NRL side in NZ. Long overdue IMO.

Agreed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could then have conferences? Play each conference home and away, t'other conference once for 25 games in total. Top 4 in each play some type of playoffs im too busy to work out... :) 

Sydney

Dragons, Souths, Roosters, Parra, Cronulla, Canterbury, Penrith, Wests, Manly

Other

2x New Zealand, Melbourne, Brisbane, GC, Perth, Newcastle, Cows, Canberra

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a myth from Peters, or at the least very selective reporting. The reality is that playing numbers in Auckland for the 15 plus grades have dropped off a cliff in the past 5 years. Last year Auckland ran no under 18 grade. The restricted weight grade which had 10/15 teams a decade ago and six last year has gone. Senior A, which is lower grades, was down to 12 or so teams this year from 30 five years ago. Essentially now in Auckland there are about 45 men’s teams. Seems a lot but the entire NZ game is founded on it as elsewhere it’s very thin - no comp now on the west coast, three teams in Tasman, four each in Otago and Southland, nothing in Hawkes bay, six in Taranaki-manawatu. We’re much further from a second nrl franchise than five or ten years ago 

  • Like 3
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Bondi Cannon said:

This is a myth from Peters, or at the least very selective reporting. The reality is that playing numbers in Auckland for the 15 plus grades have dropped off a cliff in the past 5 years. Last year Auckland ran no under 18 grade. The restricted weight grade which had 10/15 teams a decade ago and six last year has gone. Senior A, which is lower grades, was down to 12 or so teams this year from 30 five years ago. Essentially now in Auckland there are about 45 men’s teams. Seems a lot but the entire NZ game is founded on it as elsewhere it’s very thin - no comp now on the west coast, three teams in Tasman, four each in Otago and Southland, nothing in Hawkes bay, six in Taranaki-manawatu. We’re much further from a second nrl franchise than five or ten years ago 

I noticed that the game has been established recently in the South Canterbury, North Otago region, a point you either chose to ignore or your knowledge doesn't stretch that far. The West Coast of the South Is has been in decline in population for some time. Few jobs and the kids leave the area.  RL cannot be blamed for that. The Tasman area has never been a hotbed for RL but the newly appointed development officer comments  here: http://www.sporttasman.org.nz/newsarticle/68600 The Hawkes Bay isn't known as a RL area either.

Interestingly no mention of Canterbury, a very progressive RL area so the 'elsewhere very thin on the ground' is a false claim. How about the rise in success of the Northland regional team? Waikato? Talk about being selective. 

Of course all sports face challenges getting kids to play the game. However, it does lead me to the final comment about  RL franchise. NZ should have another team and would support it well. Stripping all the talent and taking it to Australia doesn't do the sport any good in NZ. More talent should be retained. Another franchise would give the game a boost here and expand it. We are not further away from that need. 

Edited by RayCee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ray. Didn’t run through every district but sure, Canterbury is still strong and Northland seems to be growing; Waikato and Bay of Plenty are doing okay. Wellington is an absolute shadow of what it was. The Aoraki comp is a four team four week comp post rugby union season - it’s good to see a new area involved but it’s only small so far. I’m not trying to say it’s all doom and gloom as there are still plenty of very talented kids out there but the game is weaker than it was five years ago and lacks strong leadership and direction. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For years there was a problem around NZRLs use of LeagueNet which meant numbers weren’t properly collated and so wildly varied year to year. I’d say whatever they are now would be very reliable but you couldn’t say that about the numbers from a decade ago. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Good that kids & women's numbers are up but doubling amount of women's players means 300 to 600. What hasn't been mentioned is the amount of men playing the sport is decreasing. A 2nd NZ NRL team sadly would seem to be some way off...

Men are down because they are heading to Australia for opportunities.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bit of spin going on with that announcement id say. Rugby League in NZ needs a touch rugby league version of the game that is directly developed and run by the sport and its member clubs. The days of Wellington having premier, reserves and 4 senior social grades below that, were over 20 years ago and very unlikely to return. Wellington now has premiers, reserve grade both with a lot of defaults happening and over 35 masters grade and that is it at adult mens level, women's level there may be 4 or 5 teams. West coast has no adult competition anymore. Hawkes Bay and Gisborne/East Coast either dont exist anymore or have a few games at end of rugby union season. 

Edited by kiwis 13 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you analysed the game in Australia or England, at any given time, there would be areas doing better and other going backwards. The NZRL highlighted a couple of positive areas and that could be something to be happy about. OK, some areas aren't going so well but that will always happen.

The constant drain of talent needs to be addressed by Australian RL as it is excessive and is damaging the game over here. It's in no one's long term interest. A second NRL franchise would help but regional clubs losing all their up and coming talent to Australia with presumably no recompense has got to have an effect. It must be so discouraging not to be able to build a successful club when all the quality coming through disappears. 

So something is good in NZRL and it was the point of the post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, RayCee said:

 

17 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Men are down because they are heading to Australia for opportunities.

This is a myth doing the rounds on the ARL circuit. There are less players because of Australia. Net population on Auckland is growing rapidly. The real issue is that the people migrating to NZ aren't aware of League, and so dont participate.

 

Edited by gnidir
too many points
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am all for positive results but it seems that NZRL has used wins in some areas to hide and not mention dramatic losses in others. Its true what Gindir is saying lots of NZ league people not just players but families and supporters of the game have moved to Australia this century. The new immigrant groups to NZ have not been attracted to the sport. European/Pakeha people who are 70% of NZ population are a minority in Rugby League and little is done to attract that group to participate in the sport, despite that those who do learn the game & can handle the size different in jr grades have proven to be very talented at the sport. Maori & Pacific Islanders in NZ make up the majority of playing numbers but interest in the sport from those community is also dwindling due to professionalism in rugby union, immigration to Australia, League in NZ being poorly administrated. local league not offering many opportunities. Anyway NZRL has to pull there finger out    

Edited by kiwis 13 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All team sports in NZ are struggling so RL isn't in an unusual position.

For those who don't know I'm an expatriate Brit living in Nelson. I was playing/coaching RL in the early 2000s, I work at Nelson College (a very established RU school) and my two sons play soccer so I've been involved in that sport for the past five years including being chairman of our local club.

Nelson/Tasman has the most active sporting population in NZ....but even in that doesn't stop team sports struggling to find players. 

Part of the issue is time - people won't commit to a game/club that will consume large chunks of their weekends. Team sports lose out to mountain biking, tramping, climbing, kayaking....etc

A creeping threat to all organised sport is the death of volunteerism. The sheer number of hours required to keep sports clubs running continues to rise, fewer people are prepared to give their time. However....more and more people view clubs as part of the "service industry" and place demands on those running clubs above what was expected even a few years ago. This results in burnout of administrators and clubs collapse even when there are an excess of people willing/wanting to play.

Another long term issue for NZ is the gradual adoption of a US model of school sport. Those outside of NZ may not appreciate that school teams dominate the U20 sporting landscape. In my region RU clubs are not allowed to run youth sides they HAVE to let schools monopolise the 13-19 year old talent. I've noticed that increasingly the elitist model has taken over. Either you're good enough to play in "The Team" or you stop playing. The idea of participation for its own sake has fallen away.

When I began teaching in 2003 my school had a 1st XV, 2nd XV, 3rd XV and a social side. Now it has a 1st XV "training squad" that incorporates a 2nd XV. This is despite the school having 30% more students! Not only that the intense focus on the 1st XV means that for the majority of players they view their school rugby as the highlight of their playing career, (and much like the US and its high school gridiron culture), the majority of NZ school players are no longer playing in their 20s.

The issues surrounding sports participation are huge and i doubt that the NZRL are in any position to do anything about it to be honest. My wife and a close friend both work in sports consultancy, I've see the figures and the projections....it all makes sobering reading.

Edited by kier
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/22/2018 at 2:51 PM, B rad said:

Agreed

Hell will freeze over before the Australians give NZ another team. The only reason we have the Warriors is because one NZ team gives them a massive TV audience here and they need that to combat the rise of AFL. There are still many in Sydney who would like to see the Warriors kicked out, probably Brisbane as well. They have known they have too many Sydney clubs since 1990 and have done nothing about it even though many are on the borderline financially.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Men are down because they are heading to Australia for opportunities.

Is the population declining?  RL in NZ seems predominantly Maori, is this an issue with emigration (and socially)?

We really should not be bothered about RU, but are there issues there?  These days it seems to me looking on the outside that  RU is propped up by islanders (But not from PNG?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks kier, 

Your points are well made and interesting. 

We can (or should) all read articles which point to a significant decline in participation in RU in Australia.  We moan at our name but RU participation had declined here as well.

Its a common theme.  It strikes me that all RL and RU organisations are being masked by an influx of players from islanders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Kiwiling said:

Hell will freeze over before the Australians give NZ another team. The only reason we have the Warriors is because one NZ team gives them a massive TV audience here and they need that to combat the rise of AFL. There are still many in Sydney who would like to see the Warriors kicked out, probably Brisbane as well. They have known they have too many Sydney clubs since 1990 and have done nothing about it even though many are on the borderline financially.

The two clubs the NRL have had to rescue in recent years are Newcastle and the Gold Coast, without their long suffering owners Manly would be in trouble but the rest of the Sydney clubs are  doing ok.

I think a second team in NZ would be a good idea (although I bet the Warriors don't) but it would need to be heavily subsidised  by the NRL for at least a generation, like the AFL are doing with  the  Gold Coast and Western Sydney, .

Looking at Warriors crowds over the twenty odd years that they have been there they are not much better than most Sydney clubs so I doubt Auckland could handle a second team. Christchurch and Wellington are about the size of Canberra, but they wouldn't have the gaming machine revenue to prop them up that Canberra does, so realistically a team in either of these cities will burn money for many, many, years.

I still think we should do it though, it's the only way to put serious pressure on Rugby Union in one of our sports few realistic expansion targets.Unfortunately it will not happen because the current sixteen clubs will not want to help pay for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Thanks kier, 

Your points are well made and interesting. 

We can (or should) all read articles which point to a significant decline in participation in RU in Australia.  We moan at our name but RU participation had declined here as well.

Its a common theme.  It strikes me that all RL and RU organisations are being masked by an influx of players from islanders.

Rupert ever since 2012 when the Australian Bureau of Statistics stopped collecting data on sports participation as part of the national census I take no notice of any of the numbers tossed about when it comes to participation levels in the various sports down here. 

They all seem to announce numbers far higher than the ABS used to get, so either Australians have suddenly got a lot more sporty or the ABS had a much tighter definition of what it meant to be a participant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, kier said:

All team sports in NZ are struggling so RL isn't in an unusual position....

The issues surrounding sports participation are huge and i doubt that the NZRL are in any position to do anything about it to be honest. My wife and a close friend both work in sports consultancy, I've see the figures and the projections....it all makes sobering reading.

Thanks for that insight kier. It's too easy to criticise sports administrators but it would be another thing to be in their shoes and do a better job. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


League Express Yearbook 2018/19 - Order Now


Rugby League World - Nov 2018

Rugby League World - Nov 2018



League Express - Online Now

League Express - Every Monday