Angelic Cynic Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: They are not due for release until Nov 19th. the major issue at present, I understand, is regarding the availability of grounds for clubs who are tenants. I can't think,immediately,of the problem involving League 1 clubs and tenants of grounds. I believe the fixtures were due on the date you state - I also think the delay is due to what may,or may not be,happening at Leigh. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Angelic Cynic said: I can't think,immediately,of the problem involving League 1 clubs and tenants of grounds. I believe the fixtures were due on the date you state - I also think the delay is due to what may,or may not be,happening at Leigh. I refer to both of the lower leagues. Those who share with soccer clubs have to give preference to that club's fixtures, according to EFL bye laws I understand. Also a question mark is still hovering over Keighley's future. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said: Why? Well anyone could offer huge amounts knowing there is no risk sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: They are not due for release until Nov 19th. the major issue at present, I understand, is regarding the availability of grounds for clubs who are tenants. And in SL, Wigan, Hull FC, London Bronco's, Huddersfield and Salford has to mesh with Sale, how did they get the fixtures produced quicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, DEANO said: Well anyone could offer huge amounts knowing there is no risk I watched that Leigh team perform, in the majority of games I saw the players going through the motions the thought crossed my mind hiw much more effort would have they put in if payment was still based on a win, lose or draw system. That is the opposite side of the risk, players knowingly getting the same money for busting a gut or taking it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Davo5 said: Why should the players suffer from clubs financial ineptitude,maybe if those clubs want to employ shoit or bust tactics they should only offer 1 yr deals in the first place. Because they didn’t perform if the club came bottom. If all clubs stood together and had these clauses then no-one would be on the brown stuff if a club got relegated and we wouldnt need unfair parachute payments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobbygobbler Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: You are flailing around now Lobby. Contracts are issued by the clubs as they see fit, presumably consulting legal experts along the way. So long as they accord with the general requirements of the RFL, which largely are there to protect the interests of the players, then the RFL should have no further responsibilities for them. Or are you admitting that Leigh were incapable of running a proper business? Beaumont should have had a backup plan if Leigh didnt make the top 4 so we could have survived not making the cut. We had too many players on daft long term contracts with no break clauses. To be fair to Beaumont, the problem is that many players wont sign contracts with break clauses if other clubs dont have them. In my opinion the risk is too much on the shoulders on clubs (and fans) rather than players who underperform as a unit. Hence it is better if all clubs offered break clauses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said: Beaumont should have had a backup plan if Leigh didnt make the top 4 so we could have survived not making the cut. We had too many players on daft long term contracts with no break clauses. To be fair to Beaumont, the problem is that many players wont sign contracts with break clauses if other clubs dont have them. In my opinion the risk is too much on the shoulders on clubs (and fans) rather than players who underperform as a unit. Hence it is better if all clubs offered break clauses How many times does it need saying that only RFL approved clauses are allowed in players' contracts. One of those is to allow the contract to be made null and void upon relegation but not in the event of not achieving promotion. The blame for the consequences of giving out contracts that you cannot afford to fulfill if you remain in the same division lies fairly and squarely with the 'club' and not the players - and in no way should that allow a termination clause. DB took a financial risk and it failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger06 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 If the Sport at the Championship or League 1 levels is not living up to some peoples expectations, they really should just forget about it and enjoy Super League offerings only.......It's unreasonable to constantly demand it be killed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Talk about shifting blame . Players aren’t to blame , the RFL aren’t to blame ( for once ) . Beaumont and the management there is to blame . You can’t run your business and look at what may or may not happen then you are irresponsible . Putting it on players is really average to say the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clogiron Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: I refer to both of the lower leagues. Those who share with soccer clubs have to give preference to that club's fixtures, according to EFL bye laws I understand. Also a question mark is still hovering over Keighley's future. According to the TRL news site and other rumours the mysterious Austria Holdings who took over the club found a number of significant unexpected debts which have now been delt with (Garry Schofield's bar bill?) and oustanding payments to player's should have been completed by Tuesday, which Tuesday it didn't say. Think they're under a signings embargo still, but they are certainty lacking in numbers and quality, on the plus side they did run a reserve team the past couple of seasons and I think that certainly helped get them through to the end last time round. Whatever, it looks like being a long, hard road ahead with a stuggling team and the inevitable reduced support, it's hard to see a bright future. AH taking over is a funny one, you can't say there asset strippers as there's no assets to strip, the ground is on lease from Brad Met I belive as result of previous struggles, they rent the ground to a local soccer team who are a few rungs down the pyramid, they've brought in Steve Gill ex of Castleford to run the show, who's making all the right noises, dispensed with Schofield and announced signings for the mens and womens team's despite the embargo which I understood was mandatory if you had outstanding player payments. All in all puzzling, never one to not stick my neck out I would forsee AH quitting before the season is out and a spike in Lotto ticket sales in the Keighley area at the same time as that is the only hope left for them, sad really because that's where I started watching the game back in the early 60s, but inevitable given the circumstances that exist today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 3 hours ago, DavidM said: Talk about shifting blame . Players aren’t to blame , the RFL aren’t to blame ( for once ) . Beaumont and the management there is to blame . You can’t run your business and look at what may or may not happen then you are irresponsible . Putting it on players is really average to say the least Unless Beaumonts open letter was... er, disingenuous, Leigh were told that all parachute payments had to be spent on players wages. If they were probably going to be for at least 2 year contracts then they were facing some problems if once they failed to go up, well they went effectively bankrupt as they could not pay the on going contracts. So if this is so they had to at least limit their spend even if they had plenty of offers of money. They did not. Realistically the parachute money is something of a poisoned chalice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Unless Beaumonts open letter was... er, disingenuous, Leigh were told that all parachute payments had to be spent on players wages. If they were probably going to be for at least 2 year contracts then they were facing some problems if once they failed to go up, well they went effectively bankrupt as they could not pay the on going contracts. So if this is so they had to at least limit their spend even if they had plenty of offers of money. They did not. Realistically the parachute money is something of a poisoned chalice. Beaumont was the one who wanted to spend more money.He got his wish granted. https://www.leighobserver.co.uk/sport/leigh-centurions-beaumont-will-challenge-salary-cap-1-7528058 It now seems Widnes,Salford and Leigh have lost their benefactors,all,who presumably mix in the social circles of other wealthy people,have failed to find equally wealthy people to involve themselves in the sport. Not a good look for clubs that are,or have recently been,in the top tier. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said: Unless Beaumonts open letter was... er, disingenuous, Leigh were told that all parachute payments had to be spent on players wages. If they were probably going to be for at least 2 year contracts then they were facing some problems if once they failed to go up, well they went effectively bankrupt as they could not pay the on going contracts. So if this is so they had to at least limit their spend even if they had plenty of offers of money. They did not. Realistically the parachute money is something of a poisoned chalice. Good old delightful degsy had a choice whether to accept the parachute payment or not, he did but instead of managing the finances of his club he went and brought in more highly paid players. Its his fault and his alone the club is in the mess its in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 1 minute ago, dkw said: Good old delightful degsy had a choice whether to accept the parachute payment or not, he did but instead of managing the finances of his club he went and brought in more highly paid players. Its his fault and his alone the club is in the mess its in. If he had spent for just 1 year contracts then if you fail to get promoted then your club is still viable. But spending on 2plus year contracts expose a teams future. This was not Beaumonts money, it was the RLFs to spend on players. Leigh needed to still stick to what they could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted November 10, 2018 Author Share Posted November 10, 2018 I partly blame the concept of jeopardy put forward by the rfl. Several posters on here warned that things like this would happen, it didn't take nostradamus to know what would happen. Championship teams attempting to compete with SL teams on the pitch and for players was only going one way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 7 hours ago, DavidM said: Talk about shifting blame . Players aren’t to blame , the RFL aren’t to blame ( for once ) . Beaumont and the management there is to blame . You can’t run your business and look at what may or may not happen then you are irresponsible . Putting it on players is really average to say the least Yes they are in this particular case at Leigh David, I watched them perform live in all but 3 games and saw those one's I missed on the small screen, I am not a new comer to this game, I have played in, coached, watched and supported this game since 1960, I am by no means an authority on the game, but I consider I have gleaned enough expierience and gumption in that time to recognise when player's are being honest on the field for the club, the fans and just as importantly themselves, I have used this pharse before but there are quite a few of those who represented Leigh last season who I do not consider can look in the eye's of the man in the mirror and honestly say "I gave it my all and earned my money" So I am stating my thoughts on observations, the root of your statement is............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 You said this a few times HS, and I've no reason to doubt you I wonder, do you have an insight into why this appeared to be the case, given that those same players largely left, went to SL clubs and performed to a good standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpmc Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 This feels like a reversal of the norm to me. What i mean is when a player hissy fits or gets wind that another club is after him he often downs tools and refuses to play and even stays away from the club,when this scenario happens can the club with hold his wages and make him rot at home till the contract is up ? PS,just asking a question im not trying to justify anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 9 hours ago, paulwalker71 said: You said this a few times HS, and I've no reason to doubt you I wonder, do you have an insight into why this appeared to be the case, given that those same players largely left, went to SL clubs and performed to a good standard? Sorry for repeating myself but it does gall when people make statements with no foundation or reason at all, it is like all those experts who knew everthing that was going on at your place a couple of years ago, but in reality knew jack all. Back to your question, I don't honestly know Paul, there were a few exceptions throughout the season beating London and Tolouse away and Salford in the cup, but even when the chips were down coming into the last 3 games of the season when points difference was really important, we played Rochdale and Swinton on consecutive weeks they happened to be the bottom 2 clubs, points had been hard to come by for them and with the expierience we had (very nearly all 17, SL or NRL) and so should have taken advantage, but they managed to put nigh on 60 points on Leigh between them, Leigh stood like traffic cops in defence waving them through, and the teams Leigh fielded in those games contained all those who has you observed performed to a good standard after leaving. It is reputed that 6 of those player's enjoyed contracts in excess of £100K, throughout the campaign they prooved not to be worth £100K between them. Call Beaumont all people like, but I would wager there is not one among them who if their owner speculated on the "reputed" quality and expierience he assembled together for their respective teams prior to the season, that they like us Leigh fans would be full of expectation and even praise to him for doing so, he did his bit, other factors let the club down and put us in this position, for me the blame sits squarely with the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 22 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said: RFL should make all >1 yr contracts be cancellable if a club goes down or fails to go up Going down yes. But fails to go up? Really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: Sorry for repeating myself but it does gall when people make statements with no foundation or reason at all, it is like all those experts who knew everthing that was going on at your place a couple of years ago, but in reality knew jack all. Back to your question, I don't honestly know Paul, there were a few exceptions throughout the season beating London and Tolouse away and Salford in the cup, but even when the chips were down coming into the last 3 games of the season when points difference was really important, we played Rochdale and Swinton on consecutive weeks they happened to be the bottom 2 clubs, points had been hard to come by for them and with the expierience we had (very nearly all 17, SL or NRL) and so should have taken advantage, but they managed to put nigh on 60 points on Leigh between them, Leigh stood like traffic cops in defence waving them through, and the teams Leigh fielded in those games contained all those who has you observed performed to a good standard after leaving. It is reputed that 6 of those player's enjoyed contracts in excess of £100K, throughout the campaign they prooved not to be worth £100K between them. Call Beaumont all people like, but I would wager there is not one among them who if their owner speculated on the "reputed" quality and expierience he assembled together for their respective teams prior to the season, that they like us Leigh fans would be full of expectation and even praise to him for doing so, he did his bit, other factors let the club down and put us in this position, for me the blame sits squarely with the players. No blame is squarely with Beaumont who, because things haven't gone his way, is trying to get out of the obligations he signed up to. If the outcome of sporting contests was as predictable as you, and quite a few other Leigh fans, appear to think it should be there'd be no bookies in existence for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuutaisrambo Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 13 hours ago, The Daddy said: I partly blame the concept of jeopardy put forward by the rfl. Several posters on here warned that things like this would happen, it didn't take nostradamus to know what would happen. Championship teams attempting to compete with SL teams on the pitch and for players was only going one way. Yeah no clubs ever had financial difficulties before this damn idea of jeopardy..... bring back licencing so Paris Celtic crusaders and London can rise again Beaumont has managed things badly....shouldn't have committed to 2 year deals he wasn't willing to finance if they didn't go up. As much as I dislike the RFL we can't blame them or any structure on individuals running clubs badly. They need to make a decision soon cos fixtures are delayed and folk have trips to Canada and France to book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 13 hours ago, The Daddy said: I partly blame the concept of jeopardy put forward by the rfl. Several posters on here warned that things like this would happen, it didn't take nostradamus to know what would happen. Championship teams attempting to compete with SL teams on the pitch and for players was only going one way. So, which individual asked, nay demanded, the right for Championship clubs to have the same cap level as those in SL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: So, which individual asked, nay demanded, the right for Championship clubs to have the same cap level as those in SL? Ooh ooh, pick me, pick me, I know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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