Brian McDermott new Toronto Wolfpack coach

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I don't think my position has changed on this.  

Don't blame the weatherman if he tells you its raining.

 

Your position has clearly changed...glad to have you on board as a Pack member and fan....remember its all clear sailing from here on in...no clouds....just sunny days again for you now that YOU HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT.

Another convert to the North American game!!!!!

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:57 PM, Padge said:

This will prove if he can build or only inherit. 

 

Please explain your comment, or are you of the thinking that Kevin 'I'm not the coach' Sinfield was running the show whilst BM was at Leeds and that it was he and not BM that kept the Leeds team at the top/pointy end of things for so long? If so please enlighten us to how KS was doing that.

How many players that were there (at Leeds) throughout his tenure and were quality players from the off, how players came through and improved under BM? How many players did he introduce/sign that had an impact on the team, how much did Leeds win before and after and did good quality players that were with the club a long time before BM also perform to the same high standards for same duration under BMs predecessor?

Just so that we have all the information to formulate a proper opinion as to why people like yourself question the coaching ability of one of the most successful UK coaches and for us to maybe actually be better armed as to answering the question if he can aid TWP over the coming years, not that they are comparable in the slightest to even many championship teams in terms of being 'built'

I await your detailed response.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

9 hours ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

 

I am not sure where the 'McDermott is a taskmaster' belief has come from, but I didn't get that impression when he was at Leeds. He was often moody, sarcastic and a little holier than thou at times which I guess could have portrayed him like that.

 

Have heard similar from various people. Would walk past people and not say "Hi/Morning" etcif he was in a mood and that sometimes his man management was a bit wierd. Can be very grumpy.

But when you look at his record in knockout Football, there are few who have a better record. Interesting that in the normal season Leeds were often not near the best and Mcdermott was often criticized by Leeds fans on the RL Fans forum. It will be interesting to see how TWP go and if people are so critical as this past 2 years.

 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

23 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

Good signing for Toronto, ill  discipline cost them last year, that won’t happen under McDermott.

I think he’s got a point to prove that he can build success rather than inheriting it like he did at Leeds (although if he wasn’t a never good coach I don’t think he would have lasted 8 years IMO)

Ditto above. Why does he have to prove something, inheriting a decent team, loads of coaches do that, Lee Radford inherited a team full of cracking youngsters that had, under Peter Gentle (in only his second season picking up scraps of rich Agar) just broken through, got to play-offs and wembley despite an horrendous injury hit season and took that team to within a few points of relegation the next year, if Bradford had not gone down the pan we would have gone down. How many coaches over history have inherited decent sides only for them to be also rans more often than not, you can include NRL in that as well, as well as many other sporting teams.

BM has nothing to prove as a coach IMHO (and I say that as a Hull FC fan), those questioning his abilities have zero clue as to how team sport or any group of people in a workplace tasked with a job actually work. without someone who knows what they are doing and gives a s@@t that group of people will not succeed even with some quality workers and certainly not repeat that success time and time again.

[Lobbygobbler]

10 hours ago, MyMrsWouldPreferSinfield said:

It is a great move for McDermott as it will enable him to maintain the winning persona he has forged for himself.

As people have pointed out, he has a squad which is head and shoulders above any other team and regardless of which professional coach is in charge they should finish top of the table at a canter. The financial advantage they have is so big that teams around them overachieved finishing as close as they did last year.

The league structure is also in the league winners favour more so than the structure we have had for the last few years. Whilst it will come down to a knockout game the table toppers are likely to have a one week break between games and only ever face Championship teams to be promoted. The traveling element is considerably less likely to be a hindrance come the business end and could even work in their favour.

I am not sure where the 'McDermott is a taskmaster' belief has come from, but I didn't get that impression when he was at Leeds. He was often moody, sarcastic and a little holier than thou at times which I guess could have portrayed him like that.

 

The main issue for TWP is that the final will not be in Canada even if they come top. Joke-wise it will likely be a near as possible to whoever they are playing - prob at Wire or Saints if if Widnes get to final

[Padge]

2 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Please explain your comment, or are you of the thinking that Kevin 'I'm not the coach' Sinfield was running the show whilst BM was at Leeds and that it was he and not BM that kept the Leeds team at the top/pointy end of things for so long? If so please enlighten us to how KS was doing that.

How many players that were there (at Leeds) throughout his tenure and were quality players from the off, how players came through and improved under BM? How many players did he introduce/sign that had an impact on the team, how much did Leeds win before and after and did good quality players that were with the club a long time before BM also perform to the same high standards for same duration under BMs predecessor?

Just so that we have all the information to formulate a proper opinion as to why people like yourself question the coaching ability of one of the most successful UK coaches and for us to maybe actually be better armed as to answering the question if he can aid TWP over the coming years, not that they are comparable in the slightest to even many championship teams in terms of being 'built'

I await your detailed response.

He stuck with the same players for far to long, he didn't ditch key ageing players and promote new blood. That was his undoing. A lot of the players he had Leeds should have been sent packing while they still had a good value (£££s) to other clubs, he should have had replacements lined up and ready to step in.

Leeds collapsed under his stewardship, he can't hide, and you can't hide from that fact.

He spent years running on a core set of personnel who were bringing success but never seemed to be looking at what happens next.

 

[John WP Fan]

40 minutes ago, Lobbygobbler said:

The main issue for TWP is that the final will not be in Canada even if they come top. Joke-wise it will likely be a near as possible to whoever they are playing - prob at Wire or Saints if if Widnes get to final

Where have you seen any suggestion that the Grand Final would not be hosted by the higher finishing finalist?

[The Parksider]

On 11/11/2018 at 8:58 PM, GUBRATS said:

 like he isnt inheriting easily the best squad in the Championship by a country mile ? , my dog could get that team promoted

None of the dreamers on here will get that point. They all think TWP are achieving great things against the odds when the reality is the odds are so massively stacked in TWP's favour thanks to $Billionaire Argylle, and the stupidity of not re-setting the salary cap back to how it was in the championship before this daft system was brought in. Something like £300K.

Mac is a great coach without a club so naturally he won't pass up the opportunity to get back to winning ways not by any real coaching ability or effort, but just by circumstance. I would guess Rowley was sacked because despite having that massive advantage in spending power he failed to make it count.

Last season Matt Diskin made the point of "what's the point?" of playing out a championship season in which one club was allowed to spend what? seven times more on players  than virtually anyone else. Again that they failed was pathetic. Well done to London for spoiling the party.

It's no surprise Beaumont shows no desire to spend more money on Leigh with the "deck" (geddit) so weighted in favour of TWP and Argyle. 

What will be a shame is next year clubs like the Bulls and York are seeking to get their chance in SL and many fans on here were looking forward to that but no chance if TWP can just buy up all the best players outside SL and add some top Aussie imports.

The saddest thing for me is people who run the game here haven't the bottle to just call this rubbish out and take TWP to task for a complete failure on player development especially sacking off what North American RL players they had, and reneging on gridiorn conversions. Not to mention not a penny from NA TV deals being shared here, not that they are worth a penny.

The politics are strangling our game, and the major problem is those in charge whether in the group that are in charge mainly in name only, or the group that are really in charge now. Neither have the bottle to organise two proper leagues with proper P & R because both of them are frightened silly that if they do anything to sort TWP out, whether dropping their ability to massively outspend anyone else, or just dropping them for reneging on their promises that earned them a chance, this will lead to such bad publicity for the game it will nigh on kill the game.

I don't think it will and I don't think we should be held to ransom. I say cut the Championship salary cap to £500.000. If Leigh reserves get promoted on that good luck to them. They will deserve it.....

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

11 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Your position has clearly changed...glad to have you on board as a Pack member and fan....remember its all clear sailing from here on in...no clouds....just sunny days again for you now that YOU HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT.

Another convert to the North American game!!!!!

I have never had an issue with North American expansion, would say I know more than most about that area.

Watched Canadian development well before the Wolfpack were on the scene and don't need to be given an introduction to the people involved with your club.

What I have is an issue with information that is not factual and propaganda.  Never been about geography.

Its not just about the Wolfpack its about the sport going in a dangerous direction in terms of media coverage and governance.

It is possible to be involved in a sport and not take a purely tribalistic point of view and want what is best for the sport as whole.

I personally think Canadian Rugby League missed a massive opportunity in League One to play home grown talent.

In McDermott I think you now have someone who want to grow the game at all levels.

Jon Wilkin has echoed my own opinions on your playing style and discipline problems.

 

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I have never had an issue with North American expansion, would say I know more than most about that area.

Watched Canadian development well before the Wolfpack were on the scene and don't need to be given an introduction to the people involved with your club.

What I have is an issue with information that is not factual and propaganda.  Never been about geography.

Its not just about the Wolfpack its about the sport going in a dangerous direction in terms of media coverage and governance.

It is possible to be involved in a sport and not take a purely tribalistic point of view and want what is best for the sport as whole.

I personally think Canadian Rugby League missed a massive opportunity in League One to play home grown talent.

In McDermott I think you now have someone who want to grow the game at all levels.

Jon Wilkin has echoed my own opinions on your playing style and discipline problems.

 

Good to have you on board.  The the first thing that you have to learn about here at the Pack is that we are all team players....you are starting at the bottom so as long as you mind your place everything will be Okay. I'll look out for ya.

Keep the whining and complaining to a minimum please.

[Mr Plow]

21 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

Where have you seen any suggestion that the Grand Final would not be hosted by the higher finishing finalist?

The Grand Final previously hosted at a neutral venue. I believe this time around it will be the highest placed team will host it. Can’t see Toronto v Toulouse being played at Headingley 

[Tommygilf]

22 hours ago, Padge said:

He stuck with the same players for far to long, he didn't ditch key ageing players and promote new blood. That was his undoing. A lot of the players he had Leeds should have been sent packing while they still had a good value (£££s) to other clubs, he should have had replacements lined up and ready to step in.

Leeds collapsed under his stewardship, he can't hide, and you can't hide from that fact.

He spent years running on a core set of personnel who were bringing success but never seemed to be looking at what happens next.

 

Have to agree here. Two players sum up McDermott at Leeds. Paul McShane and Jimmy Keinhorst. 

McShane's face never fit. He never got a look in or a decent run in the team despite being given the no9 jersey for several seasons. Absolutely terrible man management of a player who has now flourished at Cas. 

Jimmy has been a fan favourite player for much of the recent past. I jokingly refer to him as 'the people's champion'. A skilled player who yet again never seemed to fully be accepted by McDermott. Despite this he has set up a winning try in a grand final and scored a hattrick in a MOTM performance at Elland Road in the rain against KR this year amongst a whole host of efforts for the team. Then he gets dumped for the following week against Melbourne in the WCC. Not surprised in the slightest he left though I do wonder if Sinfield had have come in sooner whether he would have changed his mind. 

In contrast to these two I see Sutcliffe. A player who could have several absolute stinkers of games on the bounce, or miss a month trough injury yet always seem to get straight in the team regardless. Clearly some people's faces fit at Leeds over the past 8 years and some haven't. Which for me is his biggest failing as a coach.

McDermott strikes me as a very similar to Mourinho in his rigidity and self-belief. That's great when its working (or at least half working as it has done for Leeds during the regular season), but becomes a nightmare when its not. When it was bad at Leeds (even in the years when we won trophies), in some games we've just looked completely directionless in attack with very predictable last tackle options. The flipside is we were at times completely unpredictable and very hard to deal with.

Having said all that McDermott could be the catalyst for Toronto to march into Super League. They definitely had the 'Rowley Syndrome' in big games last year and drilling that out of them will be his first major task.

[DimmestStar]

Excellent appointment for Toronto and I think will have the desired results.

Rowley had to go and Noble should be thanking his lucky stars. What exactly does he offer?

Wilkin I think is in the Noble category of talk merchant, mercenary/hanger on but the other signings are good and with a quality squad and a quality  coach the Wolfpack will surely be the championship stand-out in 2019.

[Angelic Cynic]

22 hours ago, Padge said:

He stuck with the same players for far to long, he didn't ditch key ageing players and promote new blood. That was his undoing. A lot of the players he had Leeds should have been sent packing while they still had a good value (£££s) to other clubs, he should have had replacements lined up and ready to step in.

Leeds collapsed under his stewardship, he can't hide, and you can't hide from that fact.

He spent years running on a core set of personnel who were bringing success but never seemed to be looking at what happens next.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Have to agree here. Two players sum up McDermott at Leeds. Paul McShane and Jimmy Keinhorst. 

McShane's face never fit. He never got a look in or a decent run in the team despite being given the no9 jersey for several seasons. Absolutely terrible man management of a player who has now flourished at Cas. 

Jimmy has been a fan favourite player for much of the recent past. I jokingly refer to him as 'the people's champion'. A skilled player who yet again never seemed to fully be accepted by McDermott. Despite this he has set up a winning try in a grand final and scored a hattrick in a MOTM performance at Elland Road in the rain against KR this year amongst a whole host of efforts for the team. Then he gets dumped for the following week against Melbourne in the WCC. Not surprised in the slightest he left though I do wonder if Sinfield had have come in sooner whether he would have changed his mind. 

In contrast to these two I see Sutcliffe. A player who could have several absolute stinkers of games on the bounce, or miss a month trough injury yet always seem to get straight in the team regardless. Clearly some people's faces fit at Leeds over the past 8 years and some haven't. Which for me is his biggest failing as a coach.

McDermott strikes me as a very similar to Mourinho in his rigidity and self-belief. That's great when its working (or at least half working as it has done for Leeds during the regular season), but becomes a nightmare when its not. When it was bad at Leeds (even in the years when we won trophies), in some games we've just looked completely directionless in attack with very predictable last tackle options. The flipside is we were at times completely unpredictable and very hard to deal with.

Having said all that McDermott could be the catalyst for Toronto to march into Super League. They definitely had the 'Rowley Syndrome' in big games last year and drilling that out of them will be his first major task.

  I have read from the Leeds watchers a) It was the players and not the coach who won the success b) When the players under-performed it was the fault of the coach.

   I hope this bipolar performance/review for Mr McDermott can be rested once he gets his feet under the table at Toronto.

   I hope he and Toronto have a hugely successful future.

[Padge]

12 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 

  I have read from the Leeds watchers a) It was the players and not the coach who won the success b) When the players under-performed it was the fault of the coach.

   I hope this bipolar performance/review for Mr McDermott can be rested once he gets his feet under the table at Toronto.

   I hope he and Toronto have a hugely successful future.

The bit you edited in my quote is the bit that was the problem, Leeds should have been building on that success and off-loading a player per season to bring younger blood through. Leeds stuck to an ageing successful squad for too long, that is what dropped them in the mire.

We don't know how much of that was Heatherington's doing or McDermott's.

I also hope McDermott is successful as the Toronto project is very important for the game.

 

 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  I have read from the Leeds watchers a) It was the players and not the coach who won the success b) When the players under-performed it was the fault of the coach. 

Lots of Leeds fans claim this. But then lots of Leeds fans don't know too much.

 

[Mr Plow]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 

  I have read from the Leeds watchers a) It was the players and not the coach who won the success b) When the players under-performed it was the fault of the coach.

   I hope this bipolar performance/review for Mr McDermott can be rested once he gets his feet under the table at Toronto.

   I hope he and Toronto have a hugely successful future.

Leeds underperformed because of recruitment. No one can polish a ###### I suppose. 

One of McDermotts weakness’s are he has his favourites. Keinhorst, McShane and Lilley rarely got a shout when they were playing well. 

I don’t think anyone in 2011 when McDermott was appointed would have expected him to win what he did. I think fans started warming to him towards the end of his tenure but he will go down as the clubs greatest ever coach

[clogdance]

Brian McDermott believes Toronto Wolfpack can "change the face of Rugby League after being unveiled as their new head coach."  I agree entirely with this, as they will always have a squad of 'overseas players'. Way to go, well said Brian.....this is the future !   

[Kayakman]

Well the guy hasn't coached a minute at Toronto yet and he gets this kind of comments/attention?

I'm sure he will be welcomed and liked at Toronto.  Him being grumpy and moody fits into the mold of many a hockey coach so that won't be an issue (could be a plus).

He has to win.  It sounds like he has a good work ethic....its not easy being the coach at Toronto...as someone said previously it entails much more than just regular coaching (especially with all of the travel). 

The thing is he won't be questioned on the finer points of the game in Toronto...whatever he says will be generally considered as Gods own truth to the novice fans in Toronto.  None of those horrible press conferences and questioning sessions he had in Leeds. There really will be no one to question him and I'm sure he will like that.

The bottom line is he has to win and Toronto need to be in SL as soon as possible.  i would like to see one or two more top notch signings just to give us some wiggle room....Argyle needs to ensure we get in this year; there is alot riding on it.

This coach needs to win.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

The Grand Final previously hosted at a neutral venue. I believe this time around it will be the highest placed team will host it. Can’t see Toronto v Toulouse being played at Headingley 

Really, I hadn't heard that it would be at the top placed team, it was always at a neutral venue and so it should still be, effectivly the match comes as a culmunation of a mini knock out tournament, the top teams having already been rewarded by their finishing position in the *regular season, it will not at all be any different whatsoever to the SL Grand Final by means of competition structure, this is played at a neutral venue, and so should the Championship Final Promotion Eliminator.

*I would totally agree with the Home venue if the regular season was an equal round of fixtures, but with the imbalance of the extra game created by the 'Bash' it can/could reflect on the League placings.

[Kayakman]

Alot of different answers from alot of different people on the location of the final for the Championship.   Does anyone know for sure?

[Mr Plow]

9 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Really, I hadn't heard that it would be at the top placed team, it was always at a neutral venue and so it should still be, effectivly the match comes as a culmunation of a mini knock out tournament, the top teams having already been rewarded by their finishing position in the *regular season, it will not at all be any different whatsoever to the SL Grand Final by means of competition structure, this is played at a neutral venue, and so should the Championship Final Promotion Eliminator.

*I would totally agree with the Home venue if the regular season was an equal round of fixtures, but with the imbalance of the extra game created by the 'Bash' it can/could reflect on the League placings.

I’d rather it be at a neutral venue but seeing as theMPG and  League 1 playoff finals have been hosted by the highest placed team I’d suspect the Championship final will be as well

[John WP Fan]

1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

I’d rather it be at a neutral venue but seeing as theMPG and  League 1 playoff finals have been hosted by the highest placed team I’d suspect the Championship final will be as well

I can understand both points of view. I just hope the RFL clarifies it well before the season begins!

[Davo5]

On 12 November 2018 at 11:57 PM, The Parksider said:

None of the dreamers on here will get that point. They all think TWP are achieving great things against the odds when the reality is the odds are so massively stacked in TWP's favour thanks to $Billionaire Argylle, and the stupidity of not re-setting the salary cap back to how it was in the championship before this daft system was brought in. Something like £300K.

Mac is a great coach without a club so naturally he won't pass up the opportunity to get back to winning ways not by any real coaching ability or effort, but just by circumstance. I would guess Rowley was sacked because despite having that massive advantage in spending power he failed to make it count.

Last season Matt Diskin made the point of "what's the point?" of playing out a championship season in which one club was allowed to spend what? seven times more on players  than virtually anyone else. Again that they failed was pathetic. Well done to London for spoiling the party.

It's no surprise Beaumont shows no desire to spend more money on Leigh with the "deck" (geddit) so weighted in favour of TWP and Argyle. 

What will be a shame is next year clubs like the Bulls and York are seeking to get their chance in SL and many fans on here were looking forward to that but no chance if TWP can just buy up all the best players outside SL and add some top Aussie imports.

The saddest thing for me is people who run the game here haven't the bottle to just call this rubbish out and take TWP to task for a complete failure on player development especially sacking off what North American RL players they had, and reneging on gridiorn conversions. Not to mention not a penny from NA TV deals being shared here, not that they are worth a penny.

The politics are strangling our game, and the major problem is those in charge whether in the group that are in charge mainly in name only, or the group that are really in charge now. Neither have the bottle to organise two proper leagues with proper P & R because both of them are frightened silly that if they do anything to sort TWP out, whether dropping their ability to massively outspend anyone else, or just dropping them for reneging on their promises that earned them a chance, this will lead to such bad publicity for the game it will nigh on kill the game.

I don't think it will and I don't think we should be held to ransom. I say cut the Championship salary cap to £500.000. If Leigh reserves get promoted on that good luck to them. They will deserve it.....

I don't recall you ranting on when Beaumont and Leigh forced the increase in the salary cap or when Leigh and Beaumont then assembled a squad far more expensive and superior to anything else in the championship,but then again Leigh are not Canadian ,talk about hypocrisy.

[RobertAM]

Parky off his meds again..oh dear!