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scotchy1

9s World Championship

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As this is now confirmed for the end of 2019 are we really going to send a team to competition of a format we dont play?

A chance to become World Champions and we arent going to have any experience, and if we do, I wouldnt bet on us being in the top 5, never mind actually challenging.

Surely it is not beyond the wit of the RFL to be able to put together a club 9s mid season to give the players a chance to stake a claim and for the coaches to see them play 9s and to put together a European/NH 9s so that they get at least a bit of practice before hand.

At the moment we are looking at for pretty much all the European teams, the first time pretty much all the players will play 9s is when the WC starts which is crazy.

I get some people don't like 9s and thats fine, but its happening, its a dereliction of duty for the RFL not to be trying to do it well.

Edited by scotchy1
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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

As this is now confirmed for the end of 2019 are we really going to send a team to competition of a format we dont play?

A chance to become World Champions and we arent going to have any experience, and if we do, I wouldnt bet on us being in the top 5, never mind actually challenging.

Surely it is not beyond the wit of the RFL to be able to put together a club 9s mid season to give the players a chance to stake a claim and for the coaches to see them play 9s and to put together a European/NH 9s so that they get at least a bit of practice before hand.

At the moment we are looking at for pretty much all the European teams, the first time pretty much all the players will play 9s is when the WC starts which is crazy.

I get some people don't like 9s and thats fine, but its happening, its a dereliction of duty for the RFL not to be trying to do it well.

I hope it will be England and Wales going to this, not being lazy with GB ūüėē¬†

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Just now, Scubby said:

I hope it will be England and Wales going to this, not being lazy with GB ūüėē¬†

Its a possibility but jesus i hope not. It would be truly idiotic

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Is this basically the Auckland 9s (ie a curtain-raiser for the NRL) but with international teams?

Edit: Ah, end of season. So no

Edited by Man of Kent

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Don’t see the point . No one plays it . Union have a season of this 

Edited by DavidM
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It's another cheap example of doing something half assed.

We'll hold it in Oz so we can provide 16 or 18 teams mainly from oz. On the cheap. 

 

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Just now, Dave T said:

It's another cheap example of doing something half assed.

We'll hold it in Oz so we can provide 16 or 18 teams mainly from oz. On the cheap. 

 

I wouldn‚Äôt put it past them being a solely NRL tournament. Even with a ‚ÄúTeam Europe‚ÄĚ side ūü§™

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If England are in it then I hope we do well. But you would have to invent a whole new scale for me to articulate how little I care about 9's when there is so much untapped potential in the 13 man international game.

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Has the case been made for why we have this tournament? I feel I should know the answer, but I don't recall seeing it anywhere. It might be because it would be another RLIF tournament which could make money for developing the game? Or, it could be that TV people will buy this separately, so that as the RFL/NRL have sold the international rights to their 13s teams, it opens up a new income stream? Or, it could be that this format would allow more teams to be more competitive? Or, it could be that this gets us a chance to see more Aussie stars whose NRL players' union would fight to prevent playing 13 a side?

As England fans, we may not see the point, and I genuinely doubt we are its target audience, but maybe the RLIF/other nations view it differently?

 

Edited by Exiled Wiganer
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42 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Is this basically the Auckland 9s (ie a curtain-raiser for the NRL) but with international teams?

This will be a 9s world cup. I guess its proof of concept. The Aussies have a few cities wanting it. I can imagine if it is successful it could be expanded, in to what form im not sure but it has replaced the federation cup we were supposed to have as the secondary international comp

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17 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Don’t see the point . No one plays it . Union have a season of this 

actually loads play it. There are masses of 9s comps throughout the world and for many areas, especially expansion areas its 9s that is peoples first chance to play it.

However you are making kind of the same point as me. It seems tagged on with nobody really putting any effort in to making it work.

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

This will be a 9s world cup. I guess its proof of concept. The Aussies have a few cities wanting it. I can imagine if it is successful it could be expanded, in to what form im not sure but it has replaced the federation cup we were supposed to have as the secondary international comp

Yes, I should have read your post more thoroughly. 

As we are there anyway, it would be rude not to field a strong England team.

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Is this gonna be the same time as the Tour? And I wonder who was especially pushing for this 

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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Yes, I should have read your post more thoroughly. 

As we are there anyway, it would be rude not to field a strong England team.

this is kind of my question though. What is a strong team? We havent seen anyone play it. Do we want a tackler like Hodgeson or someone a bit more dynamic like Clark? Do we want a big winger like Mcgilvery or Hall or a speed winger?

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27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If England are in it then I hope we do well. But you would have to invent a whole new scale for me to articulate how little I care about 9's when there is so much untapped potential in the 13 man international game.

"Roger, at Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. Roger, if I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem." - Frasier

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

this is kind of my question though. What is a strong team? We havent seen anyone play it. Do we want a tackler like Hodgeson or someone a bit more dynamic like Clark? Do we want a big winger like Mcgilvery or Hall or a speed winger?

It's an interesting question.

I think the RU Sevens have specialist players who pretty much only play sevens. We obviously can't replicate that, but I think we need to be thinking about the skillset required - which I would imagine means fast, mobile forwards; half backs who can link play quickly and real speedsters in the backs. The odd time I've seen RU Sevens once the ball gets into open field, its a try! So, we don't want lumbering hulks playing out on the wing...

I don't see any real reason to be sending players from our first choice England (Great Britain?) squad. Surely we have plenty of people in SL who would be able to make up a decent Nines team? I'm thinking backs like Jamie Shaul, Jodie Broughton or Tom Johnstone and forwards like Mike McMeeken or Ben Currie.

OK, a couple of those guys might be picked for the 13-man version - but you can get the point. Pick from the next bunch of guys who don't get into the full squad, but have the skillset needed.

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We’ll have to play some sort of prep tournament or just go there and hope for the best 

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I don't understand the need to have a 9's competition at all.

In Union I can see the need for a 7's, it is less than half of a team and requires a mostly different skill set and definitely requires players who are fast, ultra fit and have abilities that the full game doesn't really require - it is closer to RL than the full 15 a  side.

Where as RL 9's is pretty much the same game with a few more gaps on the field.

I personally feel it is just RL trying to match the success that Union 7's has produced. If we want to do that then why not enter a RL sevens team in the RU competition and show them how its done like we did years ago when we taught them how sevens could look when done right.

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10 minutes ago, St Etrigan said:

I don't understand the need to have a 9's competition at all.

In Union I can see the need for a 7's, it is less than half of a team and requires a mostly different skill set and definitely requires players who are fast, ultra fit and have abilities that the full game doesn't really require - it is closer to RL than the full 15 a  side.

Where as RL 9's is pretty much the same game with a few more gaps on the field.

I personally feel it is just RL trying to match the success that Union 7's has produced. If we want to do that then why not enter a RL sevens team in the RU competition and show them how its done like we did years ago when we taught them how sevens could look when done right.

From our perspective, as England fans, I agree. But I set out some possible reasons above why this tournament may be being pushed. I will add another. I heard Argyle speak last week, and he was saying that in Canada he was not pushing 13 a side as being the only form of the game, as he wanted to be able to draw upon people who could play 3, 5, 7, 9 or even (boo hiss) 15 a side. In many countries where they don't know our game, having a less demanding short form would be a very good way to develop league skills. Easier for mixed teams, fewer players to put a game on. It is also the form of the game they play alongside the Commonwealth Games, so there may be mileage in our showing we take it sufficiently seriously were we to press ahead for greater recognition.

So, no, we probably won't win, and we would all love to be watching a 12 match Kangaroo Tour with 80k in Wembley for every game, but I am beginning to guess that there may be some logic behind this.

Edited by Exiled Wiganer

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5 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

From our perspective, as England fans, I agree. But I set out some possible reasons above why this tournament may be being pushed. I will add another. I heard Argyle speak last week, and he was saying that in Canada he was not pushing 13 a side as being the only form of the game, as he wanted to be able to draw upon people who could play 3, 5, 7, 9 or even (boo hiss) 15 a side. In many countries where they don't know our game, having a less demanding short form would be a very good way to develop league skills. Easier for mixed teams, fewer players to put a game on. It is also the form of the game they play alongside the Commonwealth Games, so there may be mileage in our showing we take it sufficiently seriously were we to press ahead for greater recognition.

So, no, we probably won't win, and we would all love to be watching a 12 match Kangaroo Tour with 80k in Wembley for every game, but I am beginning to guess that there may be some logic behind this.

I guess that is why I am saying what I am. I don't think that RL 9's is a less demanding sport than full 13's, if anything you may need to be fitter. In RL we have fast agile forwards and faster agile backs, they are mostly (not all obviously) of a similar body type, 9's doesn't reduce the requirement at the tackle, We don't really do scrums so less players in a scrum offers no benefit,  it may present a skilful player with a little more room to put somebody through a gap but that is about it.

Union 7's are very different to the 15's. Scrums are reduced so no requirement for specialist positions, rucks and mauls are limited so all of the dark art that goes on in them is not required, lineouts are reduced and no specialist lineout jumpers needed, lack of kicking as ball retention is paramount, lots of room on a pitch to use the fast players who maybe are not quite up to the full 15's international standard.

7's is a less demanding short form and a very good way to develop both league skills and league type players - not 9's

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I’m guessing here but perhaps a truer comparison is with Test cricket and 20/20, not onion 15s and 7s.

The England 20/20 sides field more aggressive batsmen than in Tests but they are still fishing from the same elite pool.

I would imagine the England 9s would field speedier, more elusive players who can exploit the space but who may not be so defensively sound or physical.

Step forward Mark Percival and Tom Johnstone.

Edited by Man of Kent

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Johnstone and Manfredi would be beasts in 9s. It would be like when wigan won the Sydney 7s. Plan A to Z was give it to Offiah. 

 

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