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John Drake

The Brexit Thread (incl Brexit Party & EU elections)

Brexit: What should happen now?  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. Brexit: What should happen now?

    • Accept Theresa May's Brexit deal and just get it over and done with
      18
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and leave with 'No Deal' regardless of the consequences
      48
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and force a General Election
      12
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum with 'Remain' as an option
      56
    • Reject Theresa May's Brexit deal and have a second referendum without 'Remain' as an option
      7
    • Something completely different which I'll explain in detail below
      0
    • I have absolutely no idea and have now lost the will to live, just make this stop, for pity's sake
      23


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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Farage did say he was standing in the north west but that could obviously change.

He is currently south east MEP.

Theres a few rumours or self declared, but nothing official as far as I've seen yet.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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The adults are getting on with things while we keep on with our national temper tantrum. 

 


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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32 minutes ago, ckn said:

The adults are getting on with things while we keep on with our national temper tantrum. 

 

We’ll get a better deal and force the Japanese to call it Windsor.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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The gift that keeps on giving

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48063672

As far as I can ascertain when the Govt reached the out of court settlement with eurotunnel to avoid being shown up in court over the seabourne ferries fiasco re avoiding procurement rules as "unforeseen circumstances - whilst whilst they planned to create those circumstances" they said that the £33m given to eurotunnel wasn't really hush money and instead would be used to improve facilities at their terminal

P&O are now saying if that is the case then that £33m is illegal state aid of a competitor and so they are suing as that means procurement rules were broken

Is anyone in the govt actually taking legal advice from anyone or do they just guess ?

Edited by SSoutherner

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12 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Is anyone in the govt actually taking legal advice from anyone or do they just guess ?

This is Brexit.

We already know that experts with opinions the government doesn't want to hear are not allowed in the room.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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20 hours ago, Shadow said:

 

Allowing people off the hook as you are doing opens the door for the Racists and Bigots to be bolder and more open in their racism and bigotry, that's why we are seeing a rise in the far right. 

And we come back to Jo Cox!

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“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Those who are for Brexit, as near as I understand them are saying that it'll be tough for a year or two, but it'll be worth it in the long run.  Isn't this the old Tory "jam tomorrow" argument? 

According to Osborne austerity would be worth it in the long run.  We've seen our NHS and social services devastated, we've seen a surge in crime, we've seen people dying of diseases the DWP says should not stop them working, we've seen access to legal aid denied, we've seen libraries close, education is a shambles,  the list is never ending.  Has it been worth it? What have we as a society achieved through this self harm?  The only people who've had some jam AFAIK are the fat cats who've had huge tax cuts.  And it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the only long term beneficiaries of Brexit will be the self same people. 

When Super League was founded my team were excluded for London and Paris.  But it'll be good for the game they said.  My team have been in a more or less steady decline since SL started.  Who's it been good for?  Not me, or my mates.  Brexit is exactly the same.  It'll benefit the better off and the rest of us can please ourselves what we do as long as we don't impinge on them.

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

Those who are for Brexit, as near as I understand them are saying that it'll be tough for a year or two, but it'll be worth it in the long run.  Isn't this the old Tory "jam tomorrow" argument? 

According to Osborne austerity would be worth it in the long run.  We've seen our NHS and social services devastated, we've seen a surge in crime, we've seen people dying of diseases the DWP says should not stop them working, we've seen access to legal aid denied, we've seen libraries close, education is a shambles,  the list is never ending.  Has it been worth it? What have we as a society achieved through this self harm?  The only people who've had some jam AFAIK are the fat cats who've had huge tax cuts.  And it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the only long term beneficiaries of Brexit will be the self same people. 

When Super League was founded my team were excluded for London and Paris.  But it'll be good for the game they said.  My team have been in a more or less steady decline since SL started.  Who's it been good for?  Not me, or my mates.  Brexit is exactly the same.  It'll benefit the better off and the rest of us can please ourselves what we do as long as we don't impinge on them.

But if only you believed in Brexit more then all will be fine, magic unicorns will ###### in your garden and make your roses bloom in many colours and Steve Quinn's clone to sign for Fev next week

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I despair.   I really do.  Corbyn was among the biggest critics of Labour not putting conference decisions to the electorate.   They have a policy which is wildly popular with the electorate and yet because of the idiot dinosaur in charge's personal preferences (Seumas MIlne) we may be saddled with a Brexit most of us don't want. 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/103454/anger-labour-european-election-leaflets-fail?fbclid=IwAR1Bth75YmMyUzGnA6KqtYVbq-MBC1-x0FPRo6GA3Bjlv-xevL7hWKuR0S4

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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2 hours ago, Trojan said:

Those who are for Brexit, as near as I understand them are saying that it'll be tough for a year or two, but it'll be worth it in the long run.  Isn't this the old Tory "jam tomorrow" argument?

If Brexit is such a bad thing, why did our MP's give people the opportunity to vote for it?

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7 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

If Brexit is such a bad thing, why did our MP's give people the opportunity to vote for it?

If the sky is green why are there also doughnuts?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Slightly off topic, but in the event that those pesky politicians ever get around to letting us leave, we need to forge a new place in the world.

Anyone heard of the CANZUK proposal?

It's essentially a loose union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The UK.  It includes free movement, defense, security and foreign relations co-operation and a free trade area.

Personally, I think we'd be more at home here than in the EU.  The four countries have lots more in common than the EU28 do.

https://www.canzukinternational.com/

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Just now, David Shepherd said:

Anyone heard of the CANZUK proposal?

Yes. It's hilariously awful.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, David Shepherd said:

Slightly off topic, but in the event that those pesky politicians ever get around to letting us leave, we need to forge a new place in the world.

Anyone heard of the CANZUK proposal?

It's essentially a loose union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The UK.  It includes free movement, defense, security and foreign relations co-operation and a free trade area.

Personally, I think we'd be more at home here than in the EU.  The four countries have lots more in common than the EU28 do.

https://www.canzukinternational.com/

Ah, the alliance of white folk against furriners and dusky brown folk.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Just now, ckn said:

Ah, the alliance of white folk against furriners and dusky brown folk.

Don't ask them why South Africa isn't included, nor any of the rest of the Commonwealth.

Just the grateful dominions.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Don't ask them why South Africa isn't included, nor any of the rest of the Commonwealth.

Just the grateful dominions.

Actually, it's because South Africa's (along with India, Pakistan etc) economy is nowhere near the level that these four are.

One of The EU's myriad of problems is that it is nowhere near a union of equals.

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Just now, David Shepherd said:

I respectfully disagree

That's your prerogative.

I don't see anything in it that makes any sense.

I mean, on that page you have a History undergrad arguing that the four countries should work closely in defence - tighter than any EU army proposal, incidentally - and the lead-in frames it that a good starting point is that our flags are similar.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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11 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Slightly off topic, but in the event that those pesky politicians ever get around to letting us leave, we need to forge a new place in the world.

Anyone heard of the CANZUK proposal?

It's essentially a loose union of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and The UK.  It includes free movement, defense, security and foreign relations co-operation and a free trade area.

Personally, I think we'd be more at home here than in the EU.  The four countries have lots more in common than the EU28 do.

https://www.canzukinternational.com/

How much are you willing to pay us, up front,  to take you on?

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5 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Are you serious?

That's one of the most offensive things I've read on this forum.

 

There's a certain sameyness of opinion that most of the CANZUK crowd have. And apologies if this doesn't apply to you.

But it can be summed up that they agree with this sentence: On balance, the British Empire was not that bad.

Which, for most of the people in the world, is a shocking, ghastly, horrible, ill-advised position. That they all seem to share.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's your prerogative.

I don't see anything in it that makes any sense.

I mean, on that page you have a History undergrad arguing that the four countries should work closely in defence - tighter than any EU army proposal, incidentally - and the lead-in frames it that a good starting point is that our flags are similar.

Same Language?

Same basis of Law?

Same Political Systems?

Same Head of State?

Already tight and close defence co-operation.

A record of always voting together at the UN

Interests already closely aligned?

Sporting Ties?

Family Ties?

Almost Identical GDP per Capita?

 

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

There's a certain sameyness of opinion that most of the CANZUK crowd have. And apologies if this doesn't apply to you.

But it can be summed up that they agree with this sentence: On balance, the British Empire was not that bad.

Which, for most of the people in the world, is a shocking, ghastly, horrible, ill-advised position. That they all seem to share.

Can you point me to the relevant article that suggests that this is British Empire 2.0

It's 2019, not 1919.  The British Empire is ancient history and utterly irrelevant to this idea.  It's like some of the more looney Brexiteers claiming that The EU is essentially The Fourth Reich.

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2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Same Language?

Same basis of Law?

Same Political Systems?

Same Head of State?

Already tight and close defence co-operation.

A record of always voting together at the UN

Interests already closely aligned?

Sporting Ties?

Family Ties?

Almost Identical GDP per Capita?

 

They speak French in Quebec. The dirty beggars.

Same laws? Some laws the same?

Australia has some federal state system. Canada has territories. New Zealand has no upper house.

Aye. Although not everyone in the dominions seems happy with that.

Closer than any other selected group of countries in the world?

Always? I mean, I have no idea. Do these canucks not have minds of their own?

Not really. Canada is big and icy, Australia remote and hot. New Zealand is miles away and Maori.

I'm not basing international diplomacy on the fact that we can beat Canada at cricket.

I'd suggest family ties are significantly looser now than at any point in modern history. What with Australia ending the White Australia Policy, Canada being open to people from around the world, and New Zealand not being Little Britain.

Does identical GDP smooth the wheels or is it a pointless addition to the list?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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