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Keighley

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On 11/14/2018 at 9:59 AM, Mark S said:

I hate to say it but maybe the game needs to move on and leave clubs like Keighley behind. Modern sport is a business, there is no room for nostalgia.

Whilst there is logic in this, there will be no new clubs to replace them. It will just mean a further shrinkage of the semi-prof side of the game. Should we also get rid of Salford because of their low crowds? Take it to it's conclusion, it could end up with a dozen teams in SL. If that's the future, it's a very small one. Like Bramley, once a club has gone, it is very difficult to revive. If Keighley had been promoted to Championship, it would be a different story.

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13 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Whilst there is logic in this, there will be no new clubs to replace them. It will just mean a further shrinkage of the semi-prof side of the game. Should we also get rid of Salford because of their low crowds? Take it to it's conclusion, it could end up with a dozen teams in SL. If that's the future, it's a very small one. Like Bramley, once a club has gone, it is very difficult to revive. If Keighley had been promoted to Championship, it would be a different story.

The problem is, it wouldnt be a different story. The best case scenario we would see the same story somewhere else.

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1 hour ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Whilst there is logic in this, there will be no new clubs to replace them. It will just mean a further shrinkage of the semi-prof side of the game. Should we also get rid of Salford because of their low crowds? Take it to it's conclusion, it could end up with a dozen teams in SL. If that's the future, it's a very small one. Like Bramley, once a club has gone, it is very difficult to revive. If Keighley had been promoted to Championship, it would be a different story.

Yeah, if Keighley go under they’ll be gone forever or set up as a amateur community club like Bramley Buffaloes 

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Who cares. As long as the Super Greed clubs are ok everything is wonderful - right? Lets just keep telling everybody the game is thriving and expanding because some of them actually believe it. Good luck to Keighley. Great club. Always enjoyed visiting. You are not alone. Most clubs below the elite league are in far more trouble than people think. My first and last post on this subject and I won't be visiting it again. 

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41 minutes ago, Celtic Rooster said:

Who cares. As long as the Super Greed clubs are ok everything is wonderful - right? Lets just keep telling everybody the game is thriving and expanding because some of them actually believe it. Good luck to Keighley. Great club. Always enjoyed visiting. You are not alone. Most clubs below the elite league are in far more trouble than people think. My first and last post on this subject and I won't be visiting it again. 

Absolute rubbish.

Keighley are where they are because Gary Fawcett was a chancer who didn't pay his bills, I am happy to prove that as he owes us £2500 (or should I say Keighley do and he was the person who ordered the gear) and ran off leaving the club with two other people running it in Simon and Neil who have no cash. Nice guys but not up to the level needed to bail out Fawcetts debt.

They ran as soon as they could leaving it in the hands of what appears to be a mobile disco DJ from Fev and his mates who do not have a pot to #### in. How they managed to convince a very good guy in Steve Gill to get involved god only knows but he has hopefully seen sense and left.

The club deserves to disappear, they are a mess and should be in the amateur Leagues like most of League One. As I said on another thread about League One taking out Newcastle, Skolars, Coventry and Doncaster the rest are amateur clubs masking as Professional teams who have all had the begging bowl out recently and are alive purely because of central funding which will be gone in a couple of years.

Instead of prolonging the agony just let these clubs go. Bramley found their level and Keighley need to do the same. Forget what happened in the past, if the club was that great and the thousands of fans cared that much then it wouldn't be in this situation. Years and Years and Years of terrible management has seen it get to this point. 

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3 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Absolute rubbish.

Keighley are where they are because Gary Fawcett was a chancer who didn't pay his bills, I am happy to prove that as he owes us £2500 (or should I say Keighley do and he was the person who ordered the gear) and ran off leaving the club with two other people running it in Simon and Neil who have no cash. Nice guys but not up to the level needed to bail out Fawcetts debt.

They ran as soon as they could leaving it in the hands of what appears to be a mobile disco DJ from Fev and his mates who do not have a pot to #### in. How they managed to convince a very good guy in Steve Gill to get involved god only knows but he has hopefully seen sense and left.

The club deserves to disappear, they are a mess and should be in the amateur Leagues like most of League One. As I said on another thread about League One taking out Newcastle, Skolars, Coventry and Doncaster the rest are amateur clubs masking as Professional teams who have all had the begging bowl out recently and are alive purely because of central funding which will be gone in a couple of years.

Instead of prolonging the agony just let these clubs go. Bramley found their level and Keighley need to do the same. Forget what happened in the past, if the club was that great and the thousands of fans cared that much then it wouldn't be in this situation. Years and Years and Years of terrible management has seen it get to this point. 

Keighley found their level as did hunslet but were denied promotion by super greed 

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Obviously I'm biased towards Keighley but may I remind Monkey Lover any club of any size is liable to be ruined by bad owners (see Bradford) and clubs in bad situations can turn themselves around (see York). Away from Keighley as a specific example I don't see why you want to cut off the likes of Workington, Hunslet and Oldham while protecting Rochdale, Swinton and Barrow. The latter could easily replace the former in the championship without looking out of place and vice versa.

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28 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

The club deserves to disappear, they are a mess and should be in the amateur Leagues like most of League One. As I said on another thread about League One taking out Newcastle, Skolars, Coventry and Doncaster the rest are amateur clubs masking as Professional teams who have all had the begging bowl out recently and are alive purely because of central funding which will be gone in a couple of years.

Instead of prolonging the agony just let these clubs go. Bramley found their level and Keighley need to do the same. Forget what happened in the past, if the club was that great and the thousands of fans cared that much then it wouldn't be in this situation. Years and Years and Years of terrible management has seen it get to this point. 

      Widnes were once the World Club Champions when they defeated Canberra,coached by Tim Sheens.

They later had an owner named Vaughan and ran into financial difficulties.Years later they were in Super League.

   Man City were in the 3rd tier of professional soccer.They are now one of the richest clubs in the world.

     Part time rugby league clubs existed,and some prospered,in a semi-professional sport,long before Sky TV existed.

    Supporters of the game have no control over the owners.

    I struggle to see the sport existing when only half a dozen clubs along the M62 are involved.

   My opinion differs from yours.

    Times and circumstances change.

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On 11/14/2018 at 8:35 PM, JohnM said:

Is there a "fit and proper person" test that the RFL use? 

Yes and Shaun Spencer failed it but the decision was overruled. 

It's another Marc Green situation where you have a custodian of the club not putting any money in whatsoever. 

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36 minutes ago, Michael Gledhill said:

Yes and Shaun Spencer failed it but the decision was overruled. 

It's another Marc Green situation where you have a custodian of the club not putting any money in whatsoever. 

'Technically he did put money but it was a debt owed by the previous Bulls holding, he then was badly advised by the RFL's  Steve (safe pair of hands)Ferris, then stupidly played musical chairs with HMRC with one chair and they were always sat on it. As per usual it's the Fans and local businesses who suffer when this happens!

 

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7 minutes ago, Blotto said:

'Technically he did put money but it was a debt owed by the previous Bulls holding, he then was badly advised by the RFL's  Steve (safe pair of hands)Ferris, then stupidly played musical chairs with HMRC with one chair and they were always sat on it. As per usual it's the Fans and local businesses who suffer when this happens!

 

Correct. He facilitated the loan to Mark Moore and Ryan Whitcutt, who then couldn't pay it back. 

 

 

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Daft as it seems, Keighley can be seen as an expansion team. The Keighley-Skipton-Burnley Triangle could and probably should support a semi-pro team in Skipton. Add to that Skipton's longstanding links to the Dales towns and Ilkley and you could really develop the amateur scene across the area.

Edited by Wolford6
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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

Daft as it seems, Keighley can be seen as an expansion team. The Keighley-Skipton-Burnley Triangle could and probably should support a semi-pro team in Skipton. Add to that Skipton's longstanding links to the Dales towns and Ilkley and you could really develop the amateur scene across the area.

I think you'd be fighting a losing battle with that given how embedded Union is in the area. Ilkey, Skipton and the other Dales towns are much more affluent areas (not hard compared to Keighley) where Union is the sport of choice at amateur level and indeed in schools. Probably more so than football in a number of those places. People gravitate to the bigger teams playing at a higher level. In fact there are probably more Wigan and Saints fans in that area than there are Keighley fans so it's hard to spread the word.

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17 hours ago, DEANO said:

Keighley found their level as did hunslet but were denied promotion by super greed 

I thought Keighley were denied by Salford winning the split league when Super League came in?

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3 hours ago, thebull13 said:

I thought Keighley were denied by Salford winning the split league when Super League came in?

Not exactly mate. Keighley were denied SL status because the powers that were, thought only big cities and big clubs should be in SL. You know, like Paris, Barcelona, New York and Rome, Keighly's face didn't fit is the simple truth of it.

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On 15 November 2018 at 8:38 PM, Monkey Lover said:

Absolute rubbish.

Keighley are where they are because Gary Fawcett was a chancer who didn't pay his bills, I am happy to prove that as he owes us £2500 (or should I say Keighley do and he was the person who ordered the gear) and ran off leaving the club with two other people running it in Simon and Neil who have no cash. Nice guys but not up to the level needed to bail out Fawcetts debt.

They ran as soon as they could leaving it in the hands of what appears to be a mobile disco DJ from Fev and his mates who do not have a pot to #### in. How they managed to convince a very good guy in Steve Gill to get involved god only knows but he has hopefully seen sense and left.

The club deserves to disappear, they are a mess and should be in the amateur Leagues like most of League One. As I said on another thread about League One taking out Newcastle, Skolars, Coventry and Doncaster the rest are amateur clubs masking as Professional teams who have all had the begging bowl out recently and are alive purely because of central funding which will be gone in a couple of years.

Instead of prolonging the agony just let these clubs go. Bramley found their level and Keighley need to do the same. Forget what happened in the past, if the club was that great and the thousands of fans cared that much then it wouldn't be in this situation. Years and Years and Years of terrible management has seen it get to this point. 

Neil Cullen along with Simon Harrison and Garry Schofield all got ask to leave the club by the new board of directors which is seeing Schoey taking legal action on wages owned by the new owners

 

neil and Simon had to run the club as directors up to the new owners came in and it wouldn't surprise me if Mike Smith had something lined up after the RFL investigation 

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On 11/15/2018 at 7:48 PM, Celtic Rooster said:

Who cares. As long as the Super Greed clubs are ok everything is wonderful - right? Lets just keep telling everybody the game is thriving and expanding because some of them actually believe it. Good luck to Keighley. Great club. Always enjoyed visiting. You are not alone. Most clubs below the elite league are in far more trouble than people think. My first and last post on this subject and I won't be visiting it again. 

What does this have to do with Super League?

It sounds as though Keighley Cougars have been led by some less than scrupulous people, something that has nothing to do with Super League. The RFL should, if they’re not already doing so, be completing due diligence on potential new owners of its member clubs. 

 

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On 11/16/2018 at 12:35 PM, Bulliac said:

Not exactly mate. Keighley were denied SL status because the powers that were, thought only big cities and big clubs should be in SL. You know, like Paris, Barcelona, New York and Rome, Keighley's face didn't fit is the simple truth of it.

Of course they thought that, because that's what Sky was putting up 87 million £ for.  However they bottled it and delivered a tarted-up version of the old RFL Championship instead which led Sky to reduce the money a few years later.

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I attended a Steeton football match at Cougar Park a few weeks ago. Had the distinct misfortune to find myself sitting directly in front of two guys, one of whom was the rugby league club's new owner and the other his lackey. What an unpleasant pair! Had a chat at half-time with a couple who turned out to be Keighley RL season ticket-holders of long standing. Confirming the identity of the duo behind me, they didn't have a single good word to say about the new owner, and were keeping up their season tickets merely because they like to back sport in the town. Which is why they were watching Steeton's football team. Incidentally, the conversation of the two guys behind me indicated they were most unhappy the football club had secured a three-year deal to share Cougar Park. It was negotiated before their arrival, it seems. You'd think Keighley RLFC couldn't use the money! At half-time, I had a wander round various areas of the old main stand, inside and out. It's falling to bits.

Edited by Hopping Mad

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On 11/16/2018 at 1:04 PM, Moove said:

I think you'd be fighting a losing battle with that given how embedded Union is in the area. Ilkey, Skipton and the other Dales towns are much more affluent areas (not hard compared to Keighley) where Union is the sport of choice at amateur level and indeed in schools. Probably more so than football in a number of those places. People gravitate to the bigger teams playing at a higher level. In fact there are probably more Wigan and Saints fans in that area than there are Keighley fans so it's hard to spread the word.

The boom and bust of cougarmania proved many things, but one positive that came out of it was that it was clear that there are many people in the wider area who could be persuaded to turn up to watch rugby league at Cougar Park. With skill, this can be done. 

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On 11/14/2018 at 9:35 PM, Johnoco said:

Anyway, to go back to the OP, despite everything I hope Keighley get sorted out.

Didn't the RFL buy the ground from the CO-OP and lease it back to them for a peppercorn rent?

I was told, by fellow spectators during a Steeton football match at Cougar Park, the Co-op still owns the ground.

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