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Bob8

Religion

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15 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Is it just silly?

Let's have a heated debate!

You’re very bad !!

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No it’s not just silly, the search for something “other” seems to be inbuilt into the human psyche. To me the problems arise when men, always men, decide they will be the arbiters of belief. 

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2 hours ago, Phil said:

No it’s not just silly, the search for something “other” seems to be inbuilt into the human psyche. To me the problems arise when men, always men, decide they will be the arbiters of belief. 

I'm pretty sure it's true that women are more strongly religious than men. 

Men might make the decisions (as they have done for pretty much all of human history) but women are often the ones who are responsible for passing on the faith. 

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19 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

One things for sure, it won't be going away any time soon.

 

Humans are not as rational as we like to think we are. For every religious nut there are plenty of hippys believing in angels and raiki and all that. People want to believe that there is more to life than there actually is. 

We also want to believe that there is a reason we are here: God is a pretty decent answer to that question. 

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5 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Humans are not as rational as we like to think we are. For every religious nut there are plenty of hippys believing in angels and raiki and all that. People want to believe that there is more to life than there actually is. 

We also want to believe that there is a reason we are here: God is a pretty decent answer to that question. 

I think a lot of people are like Rik from the Young Ones when he pretends to not believe in the afterlife etc

(Possibility of ghost appearing)...'I believe in God, I believe in ghosts' 😂

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10 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Humans are not .... rational

And so need a Holy Scripture.

10 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

God is a pretty decent answer to that question. 

I just thought I'd put this together in this way to cut a long story short.

Religions are an absolute necessity we could all do without.

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Can of worms time.....

Not just silly, but wholly irrational superstitionist nonsense. I accompanied a God bothering mate to Church when he came to visit in August, and I have never heard such blatant BS since listening to a Tory Party Political TV Broadcast. I am, and always will be an evolutionist, the last time I attended a church (semi) voluntarily, was 04.08.1990, when I got married.

My (recently) ex-partner has an older daughter, and a mother who are both JW's, and she has recently started going to a 7th day Adventist jolly, on a Sunday, in Ore, and she has tried taking (forcing) our daughter to attend the indoctorinational brainwashing, and she hates the BS they tell her, and she is 10, and can see through the garbage. She has enough of it at school, which is a CofE Academy, 

If there is one God, why are their so many wars and terrorist strike about the fact? Because most religions are started by powercrazed maniacs who wish to take over the world and become rich. That's all it's about, money, and the control of it. God, apparently, is God. In Judaism, Islam, Christianity and all the various sects that try and divide up various  parts of superstitious minds to their advantage. There is no difference between Jesus, who wanted to overturn the Roman occupation of the Levant, by using a peaceful revolution, and Ghandi, or Osama Bin Laden who wanted to turn the world into a 13th Century Islamic state.

Marx said, 

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo

Edited by Bleep1673

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2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Can of worms time.....

Not just silly, but wholly irrational superstitionist nonsense. I accompanied a God bothering mate to Church when he came to visit in August, and I have never heard such blatant BS since listening to a Tory Party Political TV Broadcast. I am, and always will be an evolutionist, the last time I attended a church (semi) voluntarily, was 04.08.1990, when I got married.

My (recently) ex-partner has an older daughter, and a mother who are both JW's, and she has recently started going to a 7th day Adventist jolly, on a Sunday, in Ore, and she has tried taking (forcing) our daughter to attend the indoctorinational brainwashing, and she hates the BS they tell her, and she is 10, and can see through the garbage. She has enough of it at school, which is a CofE Academy, 

If there is one God, why are their so many wars and terrorist strike about the fact? Because most religions are started by powercrazed maniacs who wish to take over the world and become rich. That's all it's about, money, and the control of it. God, apparently, is God. In Judaism, Islam, Christianity and all the various sects that try and divide up various  parts of superstitious minds to their advantage. There is no difference between Jesus, who wanted to overturn the Roman occupation of the Levant, by using a peaceful revolution, and Ghandi, or Osama Bin Laden who wanted to turn the world into a 13th Century Islamic state.

Marx said, 

The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo

As with much of what Marx said, the reality doesn't necessarily follow the theory.

A world without religion wouldn't be some utopia, we'd probably just find different things to be religious about. In the identity politics movements I see a lot of quasi-religious features such as intolerance and orthodoxy etc. And you certainly say the same about the Marxist regimes of the 20th century. 

I used to think that a world without religion was a noble cause to aspire to; I'm far less sure nowadays. As I've said here before my dad and my father-in-law were very religious and did a lot of charity and community work motivated by their religion. I'm a nice person and all of my friends/family are nice people yet I don't know anyone who does anything remotely equivalent. They also almost all happen to be irreligious.

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8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Pew seem to think so, although no one really seems to give a compelling answer as to why: http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/the-gender-gap-in-religion-around-the-world/

*Trying to write an answer that won't be wheeled out in any future run for PM... *

In my catholic experience, women (almost always older) tend to be more dogmatic, ritualistic and far less likely to question anything. As a case in point both my in-laws are strict catholics but in a very different way.

My father-in-law has a strong faith and is a catechist and all that. That means he's studied and has a deep knowledge of what he believes. He will read at mass and makes sure he understands what he is reading beforehand. My mother-in-law has probably never questioned why she believes what she does and is much more concerned with ritual. She will light candles dedicated to the blessed heart to pray for people and wouldn't miss mass in a million years.

Growing up, this is a pretty typical example of the gender roles of those going to mass. Maybe this leads men to be more likely to question and ultimately lose their faith. 

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If there ever was a God He will have given up on us years ago .He will have seen war after war , terrorism ,people who abuse children ,people in their 90`s being killed in their own homes , teenagers killed in the street  for no reason , mass murderers gunning down innocent people , and a total disregard for the planet . No amount of praying/worshipping is going to make any difference .

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Religion was thought up by a very clever ruler who needed to control the masses, you are being watched when I am not here, you will be punished when you die (don't think you got away with it because you are not punished now), be good, pay me money and you will be treated nice when you die.

I tip my hat to the person who thought of it first, it was a bloody cracker.

Edited by Padge
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5 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

If there is one God, why are their so many wars and terrorist strike about the fact? 

Because god works in mysterious ways!

😂

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3 hours ago, ivans82 said:

If there ever was a God He will have given up on us years ago .He will have seen war after war , terrorism ,people who abuse children ,people in their 90`s being killed in their own homes , teenagers killed in the street  for no reason , mass murderers gunning down innocent people , and a total disregard for the planet . No amount of praying/worshipping is going to make any difference .

Well, the Bible has a lot of things to say about that sort of behaviour, and a conversion to faith has been known to make a big difference to people with bad lives.  For example, there was a feature on the BBC news recently - a couple of months ago - about this massive (and growing) Christian church in London that was started by a former gang member and which reaches out specifically to gang members.  They do what Christians have always done, and go out on a mission not just to 'tell them about Jesus' but also to meet their practical and relational needs as well, which is often for community, a sense of belonging, male guidance (since most of the gang members that join the church are male), a place to live and a legal means to earn money, self respect and respect for others.  The feature was fascinating as I had no idea such outreach was going on anywhere in this country never mind in London and that it was so successful, in that many of the gang members the Christian former gang members reached out to joined the church and turned their lives around.  Such is the positive impact of that church that the police and other state authorities recognise their work.

For every negative story put about by those who hate religion or mock it, there is a positive one to counter it.  

Edited by Saintslass
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1 hour ago, Padge said:

Religion was thought up by a very clever ruler who needed to control the masses, you are being watched when I am not here, you will be punished when you die (don't think you got away with it because you are not punished now), be good, pay me money and you will be treated nice when you die.

I tip my hat to the person who thought of it first, it was a bloody cracker.

Were you brought up in the Catholic church by any chance?  It's just that your post sounds like many responses I've received down the years from former Catholics.  When Catholics abandon their faith they do seem to do so very bitterly.  

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12 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

For every negative story put about by those who hate religion or mock it, there is a positive one to counter it.  

It’s great that it makes some people feel better about themselves but it doesn’t mean the supernatural aspects are real. It also does not mean there are not more rational ways of improving one’s life.

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51 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

For example, there was a feature on the BBC news recently - a couple of months ago - about this massive (and growing) Christian church in London that was started by a former gang member and which reaches out specifically to gang members.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p065zhf8/radio-1-stories-gangs-drill-and-prayer

Might be that one?

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One thing I always find amusing is that if we have someone in this day and age spouting off about being some sort of prophet or chosen one they are denounced as a crank or the leader of a cult. However many of the same people that would criticise such a person can at the same time blindly follow much the same from centuries or millennia ago.

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38 minutes ago, Damien said:

One thing I always find amusing is that if we have someone in this day and age spouting off about being some sort of prophet or chosen one they are denounced as a crank or the leader of a cult. However many of the same people that would criticise such a person can at the same time blindly follow much the same from centuries or millennia ago.

I was brought up in a strict Catholic family. The first vocal doubt I ever uttered was when the whole David Koresh thing happened. I remember that he was being ridiculed on TV for claiming he was Jesus. I turned to my brother and said something about how if Jesus was around now that's what they'd say about him.

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Taken from the West Wing, but as it explains better than I can:-

"I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleaned the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?"

Exodus 21:7
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do."

Exodus 35:2
"On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the LORD. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death."

"My chief of staff, Leo McGarry, insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police?"

"Here's one that's really important cause we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7 If they promise to wear gloves can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? 

Leviticus 11
and the pig, which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you.
8Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you."

"Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother, John, for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?

"Think about those questions, would you?"

or an adapted letter the above comments on TV:

Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend homosexuality, for example, I will simply remind him or her that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other laws in Leviticus and Exodus and how to best follow them.

  1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
  2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as stated in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
  3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how can I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
  4. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
  5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
  6. A friend of mine says that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
  7. Leviticus 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's Word is eternal and unchanging. "

And there is the problem with religion!

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