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The Daddy

SL must give birth to an American & French league

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The whole objective of including Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan and New York in the British league structure must be strategic and with the medium to long term aim of those clubs forming local French and North American leagues.

The recent challenge cup saga has emphasised that the RFL and the sport in this country cannot afford to facilitate an international league with teams in areas unable to fill stadia for competition finals. I also think the RFL or UK clubs are not modern or even compotent enough to support forward thinking organisations like Toronto or even Catalan. More important than that the sport in the UK is always in a continuous state of uncertainty with no real clear direction and question marks over who is really running the sport. 

American billionaires or French local councils will have reservations about investing into a sport with no long term plan. 

My message to the SL clubs and RFL is please put a plan in place for France and America so that a plan for UK clubs can also be implemented. 

Once we have around 3 clubs or more from each country in the league structure they should then branch off and form local leagues. 

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8 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

The whole objective of including Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan and New York in the British league structure must be strategic and with the medium to long term aim of those clubs forming local French and North American leagues.

The recent challenge cup saga has emphasised that the RFL and the sport in this country cannot afford to facilitate an international league with teams in areas unable to fill stadia for competition finals. I also think the RFL or UK clubs are not modern or even compotent enough to support forward thinking organisations like Toronto or even Catalan. More important than that the sport in the UK is always in a continuous state of uncertainty with no real clear direction and question marks over who is really running the sport.

American billionaires or French local councils will have reservations about investing into a sport with no long term plan.

My message to the SL clubs and RFL is please put a plan in place for France and America so that a plan for UK clubs can also be implemented.

Once we have around 3 clubs or more from each country in the league structure they should then branch off and form local leagues.

If RL ever ' takes off ' in NA it will end full time pro RL in the UK

As long as you are happy with that then fine , personally even though the club I support isnt a full time top tier club , I think that would be bad for UK RL , and indeed RL in general

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4 minutes ago, snapski said:

How it should have been anyway. Unpopular opinion, but absolute nonsense a Canadian team playing in a European league.

In isolation they arent really an issue

But if 5 other billionaires suddenly turned up , then we would have a big problem

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53 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

In isolation they arent really an issue

But if 5 other billionaires suddenly turned up , then we would have a big problem

Transfer fees would have to brought back into the game to safeguard the expense that those clubs who actually produce player's receive recompense that can be ploughed back into the production lines, why should certain clubs produce the player's when others either cannot or are incapable of doing so.

All the while expect the standard of the game to take a dramatic fall in standard if the present production lines have to be spread around another 6 teams. But saying that it's all pie in the sky, it won't happen, clubs will take steps to look after themselves first and foremost, as they say charity begins at home.

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1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

The whole objective of including Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan and New York in the British league structure must be strategic and with the medium to long term aim of those clubs forming local French and North American leagues.

The recent challenge cup saga has emphasised that the RFL and the sport in this country cannot afford to facilitate an international league with teams in areas unable to fill stadia for competition finals. I also think the RFL or UK clubs are not modern or even compotent enough to support forward thinking organisations like Toronto or even Catalan. More important than that the sport in the UK is always in a continuous state of uncertainty with no real clear direction and question marks over who is really running the sport. 

American billionaires or French local councils will have reservations about investing into a sport with no long term plan. 

My message to the SL clubs and RFL is please put a plan in place for France and America so that a plan for UK clubs can also be implemented. 

Once we have around 3 clubs or more from each country in the league structure they should then branch off and form local leagues. 

You can forget the idea of those clubs branching off to form local leagues, that would mean that they'd be giving up the exotic transatlantic element which differentiates them from all of their domestic competitors.

They should instead be the nucleus of a franchised transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14, set up and run along the same lines as major North American pro leagues in all respects with all its franchises located in major world class cities comparable to Toronto and New York.  A successful league like that would lift the game's profile in the northern hemisphere like nothing else ever could.

Edited by Big Picture
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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Transfer fees would have to brought back into the game to safeguard the expense that those clubs who actually produce player's receive recompense that can be ploughed back into the production lines, why should certain clubs produce the player's when others either cannot or are incapable of doing so.

All the while expect the standard of the game to take a dramatic fall in standard if the present production lines have to be spread around another 6 teams. But saying that it's all pie in the sky, it won't happen, clubs will take steps to look after themselves first and foremost, as they say charity begins at home.

Transfer fees are a form of slavery, you cannot hold a person to ransom. What you can do is give them a lifetime contract and then if they want to move the contract has to be bought out. That then has it problems when you have to pay a player for the life of the contract when they turn to $h!t.

It's a catch twenty two.

 

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You can forget the idea of those clubs branching off to form local leagues, that would mean that they'd be giving up the exotic transatlantic element which differentiates them from all of their domestic competitors.

They should instead be the nucleus of a franchised transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14, set up and run along the same lines as major North American pro leagues in all respects with all its franchises located in major world class cities comparable to Toronto and New York.  A successful league like that would lift the game's profile in the northern hemisphere like nothing else ever could.

Wolf droppings

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3 hours ago, snapski said:

How it should have been anyway. Unpopular opinion, but absolute nonsense a Canadian team playing in a European league.

Is it? Super Rugby has teams from Australia, NZ and South Africa. Pro 14 (whatever it’s called now) has teams from Scotland, Wales, Italy and SA.

I think if RL takes off in NA it will inevitably see a pro league established over there to compete with the NRL and SL

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You can forget the idea of those clubs branching off to form local leagues, that would mean that they'd be giving up the exotic transatlantic element which differentiates them from all of their domestic competitors.

They should instead be the nucleus of a franchised transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14, set up and run along the same lines as major North American pro leagues in all respects with all its franchises located in major world class cities comparable to Toronto and New York.  A successful league like that would lift the game's profile in the northern hemisphere like nothing else ever could.

Sorry that seems nonsense to me. If Canada\North America had 4 big successful clubs in Super League then I'm sure that the sport would have sufficient profile and money behind it to successfully have a North American league. If anything I would imagine the pressure would come from within North America, whether that is from a TV network or rich people wanting to set up additional teams, to set up such a league. If it did happen then I think it would be great for Rugby League, as we desperately need a 3rd fully professional league. Ditto for France too.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Is it? Super Rugby has teams from Australia, NZ and South Africa. Pro 14 (whatever it’s called now) has teams from Scotland, Wales, Italy and SA.

I think if RL takes off in NA it will inevitably see a pro league established over there to compete with the NRL and SL

Good. They should have their own competition.

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11 minutes ago, snapski said:

Good. They should have their own competition.

We are hoping that it will happen...but it will take some time.

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4 hours ago, The Daddy said:

The whole objective of including Toronto, Toulouse, Catalan and New York in the British league structure must be strategic and with the medium to long term aim of those clubs forming local French and North American leagues.

I agree. What would you think constitutes the medium and long term? How many years are we talking about?

4 hours ago, The Daddy said:

The recent challenge cup saga has emphasised that the RFL and the sport in this country cannot afford to facilitate an international league with teams in areas unable to fill stadia for competition finals.

So, can we expect not to see any/many expansion teams in the Challenge Cup from now on? Or do we think that either the RFL will change its approach, or that maybe the expansion teams will stump up the cash in future?

It would seem as though getting to the point of having at least four teams in France and in North America, is not going to be an easy one.

As someone asked elsewhere, what happens to the Grand Final if in a couple of years time it ends up being contested by Toronto and Catalan Dragons. Would it still get a good crowd at Old Trafford?

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57 minutes ago, Damien said:

Sorry that seems nonsense to me. If Canada\North America had 4 big successful clubs in Super League then I'm sure that the sport would have sufficient profile and money behind it to successfully have a North American league. If anything I would imagine the pressure would come from within North America, whether that is from a TV network or rich people wanting to set up additional teams, to set up such a league. If it did happen then I think it would be great for Rugby League, as we desperately need a 3rd fully professional league. Ditto for France too.

Once the rich potential investors in such franchises understand the financial potential of a league operating in 5 or more countries like Super Rugby and Pro14 do and attracting multiple TV contracts (one per country in each of the main languages spoken there so 2 for each of Canada and the US plus others) on that basis, why would they want to limit themselves to just 2 of those countries?

Edited by Big Picture
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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

You can forget the idea of those clubs branching off to form local leagues, that would mean that they'd be giving up the exotic transatlantic element which differentiates them from all of their domestic competitors.

They should instead be the nucleus of a franchised transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14, set up and run along the same lines as major North American pro leagues in all respects with all its franchises located in major world class cities comparable to Toronto and New York.  A successful league like that would lift the game's profile in the northern hemisphere like nothing else ever could.

But what about all those little English clubs scattered about the North Country? Perish the thought they start merging to form larger clubs playing in larger cities with name recognition around the world. Many of these teams would rather perish than co-operate with their long-time rivals 20 miles up the road.

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3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Once the rich potential investors in such franchises understand the financial potential of a league operating in 5 or more countries like Super Rugby and Pro14 do and attracting multiple TV contracts (one per country in each of the main languages spoken there so 2 for each of Canada and the US plus others) on that basis, why would they want to limit themselves to just 2 of those countries?

Those multiple TV contracts for Super Rugby Union that you site are still substantially less, even when combined, than the NRL. The Pro14 also get peanuts compared to Super League. More countries does not always equate to a competition being more attractive and more money. Indeed it usually indicates that the countries involved are struggling somewhat and can't finance a fully formed professional league to the necessary standard.

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There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a French team and a Canadian team, if they reach that level, being in a league with English clubs and does not mean that it must lead to elite leagues in France and North America. 

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19 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I agree. What would you think constitutes the medium and long term? How many years are we talking about?

So, can we expect not to see any/many expansion teams in the Challenge Cup from now on? Or do we think that either the RFL will change its approach, or that maybe the expansion teams will stump up the cash in future?

It would seem as though getting to the point of having at least four teams in France and in North America, is not going to be an easy one.

As someone asked elsewhere, what happens to the Grand Final if in a couple of years time it ends up being contested by Toronto and Catalan Dragons. Would it still get a good crowd at Old Trafford?

I wonder which would have a higher name recognition with the casual fan in Manchester, Toronto or 'Catalans'?

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1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a French team and a Canadian team, if they reach that level, being in a league with English clubs and does not mean that it must lead to elite leagues in France and North America. 

Oh, I think you'll find there are many who think there's a lot wrong with that idea.

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13 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a French team and a Canadian team, if they reach that level, being in a league with English clubs and does not mean that it must lead to elite leagues in France and North America. 

But what about the 'problem' of having a Challenge Cup final in London involving two of those teams? You saying there's "absolutely nothing wrong" doesn't avoid the financial reality facing the RFL should such a situation occur.

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1 minute ago, 17 stone giant said:

But what about the 'problem' of having a Challenge Cup final in London involving two of those teams? You saying there's "absolutely nothing wrong" doesn't avoid the financial reality facing the RFL should such a situation occur.

Promote the living daylights out of the game!

Look at the Super Bowl or the NCAA Final Four or BCS championship game. No one knows who's going to play in those games, but they become week-long festivals that attract far more fans than will ever actually get into that game.

Make the game an event and who actually plays in it becomes almost secondary.

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10 minutes ago, Damien said:

Those multiple TV contracts for Super Rugby Union that you site are still substantially less, even when combined, than the NRL. The Pro14 also get peanuts compared to Super League. More countries does not always equate to a competition being more attractive and more money. Indeed it usually indicates that the countries involved are struggling somewhat and can't finance a fully formed professional league to the necessary standard.

More countries does equate to more money in the case of Pro14, adding the two South African teams increased their broadcast revenue 50% due to them getting a South African TV contract to go along with the others which they had before according to the BBC.  Their rights are worth less because most of their franchises are in less attractive markets in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.  They're operating in the shadow of the RFU Premiership and the Top 14 too.

The NRL operates in a country where RL is well established so it can pull top dollar for TV rights.  RL is hardly known at all in North America so it wouldn't be getting top dollar here and it would need a unique angle to attract broadcasters.  It would be some time before it could command even what MLS gets from North American broadcasters alone.  What I have in mind is a league with all of its teams in major media markets in the respective countries so it can deliver matches which are rarely seen (if ever) in other sports and maximize its potential TV and sponsorship revenue before it even kicks off.

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

You can forget the idea of those clubs branching off to form local leagues, that would mean that they'd be giving up the exotic transatlantic element which differentiates them from all of their domestic competitors.

They should instead be the nucleus of a franchised transatlantic RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14, set up and run along the same lines as major North American pro leagues in all respects with all its franchises located in major world class cities comparable to Toronto and New York.  A successful league like that would lift the game's profile in the northern hemisphere like nothing else ever could.

These major world class cities getting their players from where exactly ?

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

These major world class cities getting their players from where exactly ?

From wherever they are now as their contracts expire (if they're under contract in RL or a similar sport), and from the non-professional ranks of RL and similar sports, under an orderly system of allocating negotiation rights to players to league franchises.

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14 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

But what about the 'problem' of having a Challenge Cup final in London involving two of those teams? You saying there's "absolutely nothing wrong" doesn't avoid the financial reality facing the RFL should such a situation occur.

It’s not a problem though. If these two teams are good enough to get there, congratulations to them. It would likely be deserved too.

The clubs have some responsibility to help fill Wembley but The RFL ultimately has to do more to showcase the sport, which in turn will drive up attendances. Domestic Rugby Union is a fine example of this. 

We cannot have the organisation running the sport dictating who they do or don’t want playing in a Final. It’s embarrassing, produces potential conflicts of interest and devalues the sport and the Challenge Cup. Clubs should not and cannot be penalised for attendances at Wembley Finals. It really highlights how poorly run the RFL is and we may as well just hand pick two of five teams every year.

 

 

 

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