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Man of Kent

Elstone speaks!

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4 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

6 months in the job and he has managed to attract staff from the organisation the elite club owners weren't happy with.

Lookin' good!

Isn’t that a legacy of the RFL service agreement, ie SL was already paying for them? 

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Lots of marketing speak in that piece, but its light on the detail.

I appreciate there''s a lot he probably can't say right now, but I think he needs to be a bit more forthcoming to win over the doubters.

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1 hour ago, paulwalker71 said:

Lots of marketing speak in that piece, but its light on the detail.

I appreciate there''s a lot he probably can't say right now, but I think he needs to be a bit more forthcoming to win over the doubters.

Yeah there is a lot in there talking around this issues, in broad brush terms he says a lot I agree with and a lot i would want to hear from him. The problem is the devil is in the detail and he is obviously avoiding going in to that. 

I can see why and obviously he deserves the chance to put his plans in to action, he says he wants to be judged on words and not actions the problem with that is if those actions aren't seen.

It's interesting to see him say we should expect to see more visible change in 2020 and I wonder what they will be but we know there are factions in the game gunning for him and Chalmers as already used his silence to have a bit of a dig. I think we will see over the next 18months or so that delay in things becoming visible as a bit of a stick to beat SL with

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13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It's interesting to see him say we should expect to see more visible change in 2020 and I wonder what they will be but we know there are factions in the game gunning for him and Chalmers as already used his silence to have a bit of a dig. 

Really hope Elstone is referring to increased profile of Super League there and not more structure ballache.

Part two tomorrow and part three on Thursday, by the way. 

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Blah blah blah. Tweaked a few rules. Blah blah blah. Moved Magic Weekend to a big stadium nobody likes going to. Blah blah blah fixtures.

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18 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Blah blah blah. Tweaked a few rules. Blah blah blah. Moved Magic Weekend to a big stadium nobody likes going to. Blah blah blah fixtures.

Well I know plenty of wire fans going to magic who would not go back to Newcastle, the tweaking needed to be done. But major improvements will take time and even at his worst he would be an improvement on the RFL.

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I wonder if his significant event for 2020 would be the entry of TWP into SL. Or the SL refusal to admit them even if they qualify. Or maybe require them to post a 1 million fee to make up for those lack of travelling fans that some so seem to obsess heartlanders.

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I've criticised him before, but this is fine. He really can only discuss so much. Although I thought he over egged the great work on fixtures. Anfield hasn't been received that well and the WCC is a step down on recent years. He is polishing that ###### somewhat.

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48 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Well I know plenty of wire fans going to magic who would not go back to Newcastle, the tweaking needed to be done. But major improvements will take time and even at his worst he would be an improvement on the RFL.

If you say so.

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1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

Moved Magic Weekend to a big stadium nobody likes going to. 

That is not correct. 

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3 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

6 months in the job and he has managed to attract staff from the organisation the elite club owners weren't happy with.

Lookin' good!

Maybe he has a plan that must be executed by the team of 11. Maybe he'll manage them, maybe they will be accountable and their performance and results measured. 

It's currently off season, too, so save the ammunition until the season launch. 

Not that there are not genuine questions to be asked, but this interminable negativity is ruining this bloody forum for me. 

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Its all about SL and only SL

That alone is a great worry - top clubs take the money and spend it nothing ever trickles down

With the RFL now skint and out manoeuvred by the very clubs that should be supporting it we effectively have the RFL, NRL north and south, and that’s it

If I was the RFL i would now open the doors to expansion and remove the cap for clubs under SL - as a reason why look at how SL will profit in exposure alone from the Camp Nou game - on the back of Catalans winning an RFL comp not SL - and you wonder why potential winners not full members are being charged for the privilege of competing

I am all in favour of SL doing the very best it can but not at the cost of losing the RFL and without internationals the RFL is sunk if it does not profit from the TV money coming into the game

Post 2020 we all know who will be dealing with who and it will be a 16 team league with Toronto and Toulouse in. The Bulls are scaling up, so not sure whether Chhalmers is a champion of the RFL or just very shrewd. London are who ins if they have the clout and the development alone means they should be in - that leaves one place left - Widnes as a team v the LSV as a venue for SL

A coup is a coup lets get it sorted and bring the whole game along - finance the lower teams properly and keep that one promotion spot open

Expansion teams wont go down once the cap goes in 2020 - the promotion spot will be needed to make sure those that cant keep up get a second chance hence parachute payments

The game has changed, it needs to be recognised accepted and managed to keep the whole game jhjealthy otherwise its a pro sport with nothing under it and i for one think it would be poorer for that 

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnM said:

 

Not that there are not genuine questions to be asked, but this interminable negativity is ruining this bloody forum for me. 

Stop being so negative man. You're dragging me down.

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7 minutes ago, Kris said:

Its all about SL and only SL

That alone is a great worry - top clubs take the money and spend it nothing ever trickles down

With the RFL now skint and out manoeuvred by the very clubs that should be supporting it we effectively have the RFL, NRL north and south, and that’s it

If I was the RFL i would now open the doors to expansion and remove the cap for clubs under SL - as a reason why look at how SL will profit in exposure alone from the Camp Nou game - on the back of Catalans winning an RFL comp not SL - and you wonder why potential winners not full members are being charged for the privilege of competing

I am all in favour of SL doing the very best it can but not at the cost of losing the RFL and without internationals the RFL is sunk if it does not profit from the TV money coming into the game

Post 2020 we all know who will be dealing with who and it will be a 16 team league with Toronto and Toulouse in. The Bulls are scaling up, so not sure whether Chhalmers is a champion of the RFL or just very shrewd. London are who ins if they have the clout and the development alone means they should be in - that leaves one place left - Widnes as a team v the LSV as a venue for SL

A coup is a coup lets get it sorted and bring the whole game along - finance the lower teams properly and keep that one promotion spot open

Expansion teams wont go down once the cap goes in 2020 - the promotion spot will be needed to make sure those that cant keep up get a second chance hence parachute payments

The game has changed, it needs to be recognised accepted and managed to keep the whole game jhjealthy otherwise its a pro sport with nothing under it and i for one think it would be poorer for that 

 

The cold hard facts are that most UK championship clubs are not adding value to the sport in this country and Elstone quite rightly questioned this. 

A lot of them aren't getting crowds, aren't producing players, have poor facilities and next to know online presence. Why should valuable resources go to these clubs? What are they doing that's contributing to the sport? 

I'm not referring to all of them but most. 

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Time will tell. He speaks a good game, but should be judged on what he delivers.

From the article.

1. The best fixture list in a while. Thanks Donald Trump. Youve organised a fixture list. Well done

2. Exciting new venue for Magic. Anfield. Worst decision for Magic in years

3. World Club Challenge - already in play

4. Play Offs - already in play

5. A workshop with some marketing people.

Again, time will tell but his last quote: "I'm really excited about the future of Super League" makes me worry about the future of International RL and the rest of it. Who is looking after that... the RFL! 

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2 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Time will tell. He speaks a good game, but should be judged on what he delivers.

From the article.

1. The best fixture list in a while. Thanks Donald Trump. Youve organised a fixture list. Well done

2. Exciting new venue for Magic. Anfield. Worst decision for Magic in years

3. World Club Challenge - already in play

4. Play Offs - already in play

5. A workshop with some marketing people.

Again, time will tell but his last quote: "I'm really excited about the future of Super League" makes me worry about the future of International RL and the rest of it. Who is looking after that... the RFL! 

Yes, you're right to be worried about the boss of super league saying "I'm really excited about the future of super league"

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7 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

Stop being so negative man. You're dragging me down.

You don't nteed my help. There are plenty on here whose initial response to anything is to moan. 

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8 hours ago, JohnM said:

 

Not that there are not genuine questions to be asked, but this interminable negativity is ruining this bloody forum for me. 

I know one of those who would be considered negative. He has watched, played, coached, taught, administered, adjudicated and preached rugby league for six decades. He is an expansionist who has long dreamed of a world where his game is played in every corner, and has made efforts himself. He fully understands that the world has changed and the sport must change, and that the sport is not his possession, is not there to satisfy him alone. He understands that not enough folk are willing to spend sufficient money to maintain a strong second and third division.

He is not negative: he is worried.

He is worried for the game, believing that putting all the game’s eggs in the Super League basket is too limited an approach, and 6 or 8 strong clubs alone will not encourage new players and new spectators, doubts that the approach will even maintain present numbers, that the game in some of its present strong areas will die out and not be replaced by other areas.

He does know for certain that the structure of the leagues is relatively unimportant, that the vital issue is finding ways to encourage the involvement of more young people to play and develop an interest in the game.

And he really can’t believe that these forums are not filled with discussion on how to increase playing and involvement, instead of endless discussions on the best possible fixture list for those few top teams.

Beyond looking at ways to make the sport more attractive and enjoyable for new youngsters, he has no idea of what he would do.

For his worries, he is labelled a flat-capped, low-horizoned, backward thinking, negative dinosaur by the some of the less open-minded and downright objectionable supporters of those few top clubs. For goodness sake, man, can’t you have a little sympathy for him.

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Great fixture list? We’ve got a fixture list that has reincorporated an old feature, loop fixtures, that fans weren’t keen on then and aren’t really keen on now. Seemingly clubs are fans of it, though. 

New Magic venue? Again, a decision that is seemingly unpopular amongst fans. It seems to have been a financial decision, possibly also influenced by other events in Newcastle too. However, the Magic Weekend has historically moved after a few years in one place so maybe it was time. 

A great World Club Challenge? Yes, we’ve got the two champions on one field but what’s changed with this? From as far as I can see, nothing. Still, it’s a big event for the game here.

A play-off series that will add drama? Haven’t we got one of those already? Wide to West, Luke Gale’s drop goal, Huddersfield’s last minute try that had Nathan Brown running down the touchline. We’ve got excitement and drama in the play-off’s. So what has been changed is the format of which we decide the Champions. There’s seemingly no more drama added because we already have that. 

A load of marketing stuff there, nothing more. 

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10 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Well I know plenty of wire fans going to magic who would not go back to Newcastle, the tweaking needed to be done. But major improvements will take time and even at his worst he would be an improvement on the RFL.

I suppose time will tell. In reality the key thing was changingbtge structure and they have delivered that. A decent season with a good playoffs will have the season finishing strongly and hopefully bring some feel good factor and make his job a touch easier.

Of course there is a risk that people complain about loop fixtures for weeks on end to undermine it.

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I'm not trying to defend Elstone really because as I've said the proof will be in the pudding but people have long complained that the game markets itself terribly, now we get complaints that Elstone has spoken too much about marketing, people complained about the 8s, now they complain about loop fixtures of which the 8s (from an SL point of view) were anyway, we have people complaining about the chief exec of SL is only talking about SL and not other parts of the game that aren't part of his remit. 

I'm honestly not sure what people expected him to achieve by mid December from a standing start in September

 

Edited by scotchy1

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22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not trying to defend Elstone really because as I've said the proof will be in the pudding but people have long complained that the game markets itself terribly, now we get complaints that Elstone has spoken too much about marketing, people complained about the 8s, now they complain about loop fixtures of which the 8s (from an SL point of view) were anyway, we have people complaining about the chief exec of SL is only talking about SL and not other parts of the game that aren't part of his remit. 

I'm honestly not sure what people expected him to achieve by mid December from a standing start in September

 

Personally id have liked to have heard about a clear vision full of exciting ideas rather than just a load of soundbites and vague marketing waffle.

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39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I suppose time will tell. In reality the key thing was changingbtge structure and they have delivered that. A decent season with a good playoffs will have the season finishing strongly and hopefully bring some feel good factor and make his job a touch easier.

Of course there is a risk that people complain about loop fixtures for weeks on end to undermine it.

The proof will be played out on the field David, good play off's could still ensue just as they could under the last system, but if there is a gap from under the 5th placed team in respect of the on-field performance in accruing league points nothing really changes. And if there are half a dozen teams with nothing to play for - maybe a couple could be in contention for the drop - in the last third of the season how do clubs keep continuity and interest going through the turnstiles save for the season ticket holders, even the dreaded 'jeopardy' meant there was something tangible to be interested in prior to the  8/12 split, then the qualifying 8's. I am not sure that this system new/old system will work, if it doesn't I strongly expect further changes for 2021, the "closed shop" of licensing.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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