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ckn

UK Power Generation

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I know we had a thread on this but I can't find it...

Another aspect of our wonderful government (and, to be fair, all governments going back generations) is that we simply don't have a credible power generation strategy.

Hitachi are looking to pull out of the Wylfa nuclear power plant project, following on from Toshiba dropping Moorside late last year and the Hinkley Point ongoing fun.

The problem is that new large-scale schemes, plants and reactors don't actually start to pay off for about a decade, at least, therefore politicians don't want to spend today's money for tomorrow's government to benefit.

Just another thing to look forward to in a few years when the older ones MUST be turned off rather than the SHOULD that many are in now.

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24 minutes ago, ckn said:

 

Hitachi are looking to pull out of the Wylfa nuclear power plant project, following on from Toshiba dropping Moorside late last year and the Hinkley Point ongoing fun.

The vagaries of going to the free market instead of retaining such vital infrastructure in house (i.e. in the public sector)?

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2 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

The vagaries of going to the free market instead of retaining such vital infrastructure in house (i.e. in the public sector)?

But the market is the answer to all economic and social ills? 

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1 hour ago, Griff9of13 said:

The vagaries of going to the free market instead of retaining such vital infrastructure in house (i.e. in the public sector)?

Well, that turnedout well in the Peoples Paradise. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/29/french-nuclear-power-worst-situation-ever-former-edf-director

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26 minutes ago, JohnM said:

People’s paradise? France? That article is also over two years old 

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2 minutes ago, Phil said:

People’s paradise? France? That article is also over two years old 

And by someone promoting wind and solar, both of which have been dealt multiple blows by the tories.  

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France's nuclear programme currently lies in ruins,  e.g Flamville: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/10/edf-warns-of-faults-at-nuclear-power-station-it-is-building-in-france

Exactly the same decommissioning problems that we have, too

Ask the good burgers of Finland about the EDF nuclear power station , more than a decade late..so far! 

https://www.ft.com/content/99922334-acc8-11e7-aab9-abaa44b1e130  AREVA, effectively a state owned company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_NC

Wind power here is going from strength to strength.

https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/07/siemens-marks-wind-turbine-milestone-at-hull-factory.html

https://www.4coffshore.com/offshorewind/

Dong Energy on the Humber Bank https://planetradio.co.uk/viking/local/news/plans-second-wind-turbine-factory-humber/

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

People’s paradise? France? That article is also over two years old 

Two years is nothing in the world of nuclear power, though, especially in nationalised companies. Think more i terms of 10 years minimum.

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Ah, Thatcher's Paradise, an industrial world where all the companies are owned by free spirits,, and then can fail without government back-up. Once you buy, you are on you're own, that's why this sh1thead government refuses to buy back into a railway system that is failing.

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Why is this being made a party political point?  Every government going back to the 1950s has kicked this subject down the hall hoping that it doesn't blow up in their faces, that then results in a few governments having to overspend to fix it.  Every single government, be they Tory, Labour or Coalition, has ballsed this up royally.

This is why nothing gets done, it's pointing at others and saying "Look at them!" while hoping no-one pays attention to their government of choice's inaction.

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I've never really understood why we don't make much use of tidal.

I'm sure it has its challenges, but given the engineering brilliance we seem to have in the UK, I'd have thought with enough political will it could be a viable option.

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2 hours ago, ckn said:

Why is this being made a party political point?  Every government going back to the 1950s has kicked this subject down the hall hoping that it doesn't blow up in their faces, that then results in a few governments having to overspend to fix it.  Every single government, be they Tory, Labour or Coalition, has ballsed this up royally.

This is why nothing gets done, it's pointing at others and saying "Look at them!" while hoping no-one pays attention to their government of choice's inaction.

I wouldn’t worry - it’ll be all be sorted by all those currently unemployed Brexiteers jumping at the chance to take their share of the £39Bn windfall by using pedalos to generate lots of wave power around Anglesey and off the shores of other English and Welsh beaches and seafronts.

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29 minutes ago, shrek said:

I've never really understood why we don't make much use of tidal.

I'm sure it has its challenges, but given the engineering brilliance we seem to have in the UK, I'd have thought with enough political will it could be a viable option.

A Severn tidal barrage would provide a minimum of 5% of Britain's energy needs and would be the equivalent of about 3 nuclear power stations. There have been various studies over the years but cost and environmental concerns have always scuppered it.

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Let's end the argument once and for all; the UK Power Generation were Prince's least funky backing band.

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7 hours ago, JohnM said:

France's nuclear programme currently lies in ruins,  e.g Flamville: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/10/edf-warns-of-faults-at-nuclear-power-station-it-is-building-in-france

Exactly the same decommissioning problems that we have, too

Ask the good burgers of Finland about the EDF nuclear power station , more than a decade late..so far! 

https://www.ft.com/content/99922334-acc8-11e7-aab9-abaa44b1e130  AREVA, effectively a state owned company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_NC

Wind power here is going from strength to strength.

https://www.powerengineeringint.com/articles/2017/07/siemens-marks-wind-turbine-milestone-at-hull-factory.html

https://www.4coffshore.com/offshorewind/

Dong Energy on the Humber Bank https://planetradio.co.uk/viking/local/news/plans-second-wind-turbine-factory-humber/

Walking dog along the Humber bank today , quite a few big , big , very big towers on the dock side next to the factory . Lots of blades stored on Queen Elizabeth dock . Getting ready for the spring and more settled weather before heading out into the North Sea . Or maybe not , not sure what weather/sea conditions they can work in . 

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4 hours ago, Damien said:

A Severn tidal barrage would provide a minimum of 5% of Britain's energy needs and would be the equivalent of about 3 nuclear power stations. There have been various studies over the years but cost and environmental concerns have always scuppered it.

The energy is there, and its as regular as clockwork, so in power generation terms it's perfect.  However, blocking a river has effects on fisheries, wildlife and even coastal erosion (or the opposite, and silt builds up). 

In the USA and Canada they dammed a lot of rivers for water control and hydro electricity, and things like salmon stocks plummeted (and all the animals that preyed on them) because the spawning grounds were blocked.  

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On 1/11/2019 at 3:34 PM, JohnM said:

France's nuclear programme currently lies in ruins,  e.g

Which should be a bit of a worry for us, as the UK imports quite a bit of electricity from those French nuclear stations.

The governments "no-deal brexit" note on the topic is quite amusing - basically says there has to be a deal with the EU when it comes to electricity or the lights go out in Norn Ireland.

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46 minutes ago, JonM said:

Which should be a bit of a worry for us, as the UK imports quite a bit of electricity from those French nuclear stations.

The governments "no-deal brexit" note on the topic is quite amusing - basically says there has to be a deal with the EU when it comes to electricity or the lights go out in Norn Ireland. 

Talk about scaremongering. Northern Ireland currently gets no electricity from the EU and physically cant get any from the South as there is no infrastructure built yet to do so.

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14 minutes ago, Damien said:

Talk about scaremongering. Northern Ireland currently gets no electricity from the EU and physically cant get any from the South as there is no infrastructure built yet to do so.

The government seems to think there is?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/trading-electricity-if-theres-no-brexit-deal/trading-electricity-if-theres-no-brexit-deal

Quote

The Single Electricity Market involves significant cross-border flows of power between Ireland and Northern Ireland and operates within the framework of common EU rules on electricity markets. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Damien said:

Talk about scaremongering. Northern Ireland currently gets no electricity from the EU and physically cant get any from the South as there is no infrastructure built yet to do so.

If you're going to just make stuff up at least make up stuff that's not quite so easy to disprove,

http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/library/national_energy_grid/ireland/Eirgrid-SONI-Map-A3-Oct2007.pdf

image.png.a02204666a8026f3c82c8090c92aec42.png

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12 minutes ago, Shadow said:

If you're going to just make stuff up at least make up stuff that's not quite so easy to disprove,

http://www.geni.org/globalenergy/library/national_energy_grid/ireland/Eirgrid-SONI-Map-A3-Oct2007.pdf

image.png.a02204666a8026f3c82c8090c92aec42.png

You do realise they are just support lines for border areas and can carry no substantial supply don't you?

It is a fact that NI gets its electricity supply from within NI and Scotland. It is a fact that the North/South Interconnector is not built. It is a fact that there is no infrastructure in place at this moment in time and no interconnector that links the Northern Ireland and ROI electricity networks.

Edited by Damien
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7 minutes ago, Damien said:

You do realise they are just support lines for border areas and can carry no substantial supply don't you?

It is a fact that NI gets its electricity supply from within NI and Scotland. It is a fact that the North/South Interconnector is not built. It is a fact that there is no infrastructure in place at this moment in time and no interconnector that links the Northern Ireland and ROI electricity networks.

Could you please contact Mrs T May at 10 Downing Street, London and let her know her government has got yet another thing wrong, this time about the NI electricity supply no-deal problem?

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

You do realise they are just support lines for border areas and can carry no substantial supply don't you?

It is a fact that NI gets its electricity supply from within NI and Scotland. It is a fact that the North/South Interconnector is not built. It is a fact that there is no infrastructure in place at this moment in time and no interconnector that links the Northern Ireland and ROI electricity networks.

Stop digging

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/second-cross-border-power-interconnector-planned-1.1010231

The existing interconnector between Tandragee in the North and Louth has a capacity of 300mw, enough to power around 300,000 homes.

 

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The government has written a technical notice that suggests there is potential for an issue to arise?  They, I would of imagined, of spoken to the correct experts to put the notice together?  

Not sure its scaremongering to believe official documentation?

Edited by Bedford Roughyed

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