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31 minutes ago, Shadow said:

I am not digging and I don't need to google to discuss stuff I see discussed day in, day out either for the sake of arguing. There is no interconnector between Northern Ireland and the ROI and Northern Ireland does not have a supply deficit. You are talking about local support supply lines. The Moyle interconnector to Scotland is only running at half capacity as is. There may be issues down the line in 2021 but the lights will not go out with no deal.

Edited by Damien
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5 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

The government has written a technical notice that suggests there is potential for an issue to arise?  They, I would of imagined, of spoken to the correct experts to put the notice together?  

Not sure its scaremongering to believe official documentation?

Yes in 2021, not now, and this is partly due to the anticipated closure of Kilroot power station which has now been given a 1 year extension and I presume will continue to get extensions depending on what happens. The Moyle interconnector from NI to Scotland is only running at half capacity as is too. ROI also gets electricity from Wales via the East\West interconnector, I cant see them shooting themselves in the foot.

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29 minutes ago, Damien said:

I am not digging and I don't need to google to discuss stuff I see discussed day in, day out either for the sake of arguing. There is no interconnector between Northern Ireland and the ROI and Northern Ireland does not have a supply deficit. You are talking about local support supply lines. The Moyle interconnector to Scotland is only running at half capacity as is. There may be issues down the line in 2021 but the lights will not go out with no deal.

There is a 275kV interconnect, that is a main grid supply

here's a picture of it

The Louth to Tandragee North-South Interconnector crossing Ballymoyer Road

https://www.geograph.ie/photo/5281540

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3 minutes ago, Shadow said:

There is a 275kV interconnect, that is a main grid supply

here's a picture of it

The Louth to Tandragee North-South Interconnector crossing Ballymoyer Road

https://www.geograph.ie/photo/5281540

Oh great more googling for the sake of it. It is not an interconnector. Show me here where that line is mentioned (it even has a nice map for you of all the existing and proposed interconnectors between the EU and UK):

https://www.utilitywise.com/2017/08/03/brexit-affect-interconnectors/

or maybe here:

https://www.elexon.co.uk/about/interconnectors/

or indeed here:

http://www.soni.ltd.uk/customer-and-industry/interconnection/

As SONI is the electricity system operator in Northern Ireland I suggest they know

Interconnection

Interconnector Administrator

There are two interconnectors between Ireland and Great Britain:

The East West Interconnector

The Moyle Interconnector

As the Interconnector Administrator (IA), SONI facilitates the allocation of capacity and energy trading via the Auction Management Platform (AMP) used for the Moyle and the East West Interconnectors.

Moyle Interconnector

The Moyle Interconnector, which is owned and managed by Mutual Energy is a 500MW DC (2 x 250 dual monopoles) submarine interconnection linking electricity systems between Northern Ireland and Scotland. The interconnector connects Ballycronan More Substation in Islandmagee, Northern Ireland with Auchencrosh Substation in Ayrshire, Scotland.

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No, I'm not "googling for the sake of it" 

In my last job I was commercial manager for a manufacturer of overhead line components. Two of my biggest clients were NIE and ESB. I signed a contract with NIE worth over £8,000,000.00 part of which was for the supply of parts for that line.

I don't know why you are doing this, I have worked in the industry for many years, I've been to both ESB and NIE on a number of occasions, I've put links up showing the SONI Map that includes the 275kV line between Louth and Tandragee.

Here's a more recent version.

image.png.ede14be905bed7e84ba725765e62478f.png

 

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Iirc, the first UK France interconnector was in operation from 1962. I'm assuming the electrons didn't have to queue on the A2.

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@ShadowYou are now just repeating yourself now. I am more than content that the lights wont go out in NI in the event of Brexit and stand by my assertion that it is scaremongering. For the umpteenth time you are talking about lines that provide limited support to the local network, no more. The very line you talk of is even restricted because the infrastructure is not there. These lines are not a necessity and are not defined as interconnectors, hence why they have been trying to build one and get planning consent for years. 

Northern Ireland does not have a supply deficit at this moment in time and there is no reason why it should in 2021. This would only occur even then if it closes Kilroot, which has now been given a 1 year extension, presumably because of the uncertainty, and Ballylumford B before then. These do not have to close and were only due to do so because of not winning Single Electricity Market contracts and also due to emissions targets. Also if the existing interconnector to Scotland is repaired to full capacity this deficit doesn't happen regardless. To top it all off there is a new 480MW Gas powered power station planned in Belfast which could supply 500,000 homes. Yes not having the Single Electricity Market will probably result in less efficiencies and more consumer costs but it certainly is not a necessity for supply at this moment in time and without the planned North/South interconnector these benefits aren't really being realised anyway.

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14 minutes ago, Damien said:

@ShadowYou are now just repeating yourself now. I am more than content that the lights wont go out in NI in the event of Brexit and stand by my assertion that it is scaremongering. For the umpteenth time you are talking about lines that provide limited support to the local network, no more. The very line you talk of is even restricted because the infrastructure is not there. These lines are not a necessity and are not defined as interconnectors, hence why they have been trying to build one and get planning consent for years. 

Northern Ireland does not have a supply deficit at this moment in time and there is no reason why it should in 2021. This would only occur even then if it closes Kilroot, which has now been given a 1 year extension, presumably because of the uncertainty, and Ballylumford B before then. These do not have to close and were only due to do so because of not winning Single Electricity Market contracts and also due to emissions targets. Also if the existing interconnector to Scotland is repaired to full capacity this deficit doesn't happen regardless. To top it all off there is a new 480MW Gas powered power station planned in Belfast which could supply 500,000 homes. Yes not having the Single Electricity Market will probably result in less efficiencies and more consumer costs but it certainly is not a necessity for supply at this moment in time and without the planned North/South interconnector these benefits aren't really being realised anyway.

You are changing your argument now that you have been shown to be wrong. Your original statement was that there was no connection between the EU and NI, which is clearly wrong and has been proven to be wrong. 

You are trying to change it to a discussion about generating capacity but at least one of the links I provided states that most of the energy movement is north to south.

There is at least one HV link between north and south, others are planned but not yet built. 

What are the chances, someone on the board actually knowing about OHL links in Ireland. 

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13 minutes ago, Shadow said:

You are changing your argument now that you have been shown to be wrong. Your original statement was that there was no connection between the EU and NI, which is clearly wrong and has been proven to be wrong. 

You are trying to change it to a discussion about generating capacity but at least one of the links I provided states that most of the energy movement is north to south.

There is at least one HV link between north and south, others are planned but not yet built. 

What are the chances, someone on the board actually knowing about OHL links in Ireland. 

I said it was scaremongering and it is. You are trying to pretend know about the situation in NI when you dont to defend some sort of twisted remain perspective. The line you keep rambling on about is a restricted line as the infrastructure is not there. It is not a interconnector and when I provided links to show you conveniently chose not to reply or quote. Once again the lines you refer to provide limited support to the local network, no more. They are not needed to maintain supply. You should let SONI and EirGrid know though that they have got it wrong, it will save them a small fortune building an actual interconnector that isn't needed. Northern Ireland can easily get all of its supply from within NI and from the interconnector to Scotland.

Edited by Damien
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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I said it was scaremongering and it is. You are trying to pretend know about the situation in NI when you dont to defend some sort of twisted remain perspective. The line you keep rambling on about is a restricted line as the infrastructure is not there. It is not a interconnector and when I provided links to show you conveniently chose not to reply or quote. Once again the lines you refer to provide limited support to the local network, no more. They are not needed to maintain supply. You should let SONI and EirGrid know though that they have got it wrong, it will save them a small fortune building an actual interconnector that isn't needed. Northern Ireland can easily get all of its supply from within NI and from the interconnector to Scotland.

You clearly know nothing about the power grid in Ireland and are desperately twisting your argument to avoid admitting you know nothing.

Occasionally someone will actually know about a subject on here, this is one of them. Walk away, you are making yourself look ridiculous.

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Just now, GeordieSaint said:

Is this an AOB first?? Arguing about power lines... 😂

The problems start when you don't cross the ley lines at right angles.  Messes your crystals right up.  

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7 minutes ago, Shadow said:

You clearly know nothing about the power grid in Ireland and are desperately twisting your argument to avoid admitting you know nothing.

Occasionally someone will actually know about a subject on here, this is one of them. Walk away, you are making yourself look ridiculous.

No you are. You know nothing about the power supply in NI but pretend you do. I have given good reasons why the power wont go out in event of no deal and all you've done is ramble on about a restricted line that doesn't operate fully due to the infrastructure. Seriously just speak to SONI and EirGrid know and tell them they have got it wrong and shouldn't build an interconnector, you'll make a fortune.

Edited by Damien
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iWow!  What a lot of bluster for no reason.

In the event of a No-Deal BREXIT the Irish government have predicted a 8% drop in GDP, 3% more than the worse predictions for UK.  

No matter where NI does or does not get its energy from does anyone think the RoI with a tanking economy is not gong to be desperate to sell spare capacity ( if that is what they have) to ANYONE?  They only have one buyer!

Edited by kiyan
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5 hours ago, kiyan said:

iWow!  What a lot of bluster for no reason.

In the event of a No-Deal BREXIT the Irish government have predicted a 8% drop in GDP, 3% more than the worse predictions for UK.  

No matter where NI does or does not get its energy from does anyone think the RoI with a tanking economy is not gong to be desperate to sell spare capacity ( if that is what they have) to ANYONE?  They only have one buyer!

How can a no deal Brexit be so damaging to another country when it's going to be amazing for us?

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Good point. I think this only covers subsea. But it does show how much legitimate info is easily available, how countries have been working together for many years, and will continue to do so. 

http://viking-link.com/news/uk-onshore-scheme-achieves-required-planning-consents/

Same apllies to offshore wind. https://www.4coffshore.com

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49 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Good point. I think this only covers subsea. But it does show how much legitimate info is easily available, how countries have been working together for many years, and will continue to do so. 

http://viking-link.com/news/uk-onshore-scheme-achieves-required-planning-consents/

Same apllies to offshore wind. https://www.4coffshore.com

Indeed and it does allow for far greater efficiencies and cheaper bills. On one of the links I posted earlier there was the image below and it is interesting to see what is in the pipeline, particularly in regards to proposed interconnectors to Scandinavia to harness cheap, abundant renewables.

 

UK-EU-Interconnectors-800x533.png

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Problem with power generation in the UK is there's always some group or another that will oppose every single option.

Fossil fuels are seen as the spawn of the devil by just about everyone and are a finite resource

Nuclear have their cost and risk issues but ultimately can provide a long term option for our baselne generation needs. However every single 'green' group oposes it as does large numbers of opposition MP's just because its an easy area to target the government on.

Wind is viable but has its limitations (ie. it relies on nature and if there's no wind then there's no power), so this makes it unviable to be the main source of our baseline needs, but can definately play a part in the overall mix. However there are numerous 'green' groups who oppose it on the grounds of visual intrusion and harm to birdlife. Plus current turbines have a serious effect on the national radar infratsructure (though several companies are developing blades now using stealth technology that will reduce its radar cross section)

Tidal is probably the one with the most potential but major schemes (like the Severn barrage) are again opposed by numerous 'green' groups because they will substantially change the surrounding habitat. Even the reduced scheme options are opposed (small lagoons / storage tanks etc.)

Solar was seen as the saviour but solar farms take up huge amounts of land and microgeneration is difficult to manage and integrate into the grid on a large scale. Plus people who rushed to install panels around a decade ago are now finding out that they're getting less & less efficient over time and it wont be long before they start to fail (particulalrly anyone who installed the cheap chinese import panels). You'll be lucky if you get 15 years out of these panels before they all need replacing.

 

For long term safety & security the goverment needs a good mix of sources of power generation. They should have a target of self generation so we're not reliant on global issues and have a mix that can guarantee future baseline needs and the capacity to also meet the peaks. Personally one of the areas I think we need to invest in is storage technology, particulalrly if the government pursues its strategy of having electricity driven vehicles as our primary source of transport going forward.

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Imagine how much creative energy we could have put to good use over the last three years if we hadn't been wasting our time on Brexit and trying to work out how to minimise how much poorer we will get for no clear reason.

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

Imagine how much creative energy we could have put to good use over the last three years if we hadn't been wasting our time on Brexit and trying to work out how to minimise how much poorer we will get for no clear reason.

Companies like Hitachi have every right to be nervous with continued investment with the current political situation. With Corbyn already stating he will call a vote of no confidence and try to trigger an election, no nuclear company will push ahead when senior labour figures have publically vowed to abolish nuclear (weapons & power) in the UK. Throw the anti-nuclear SNP into the mix as well and noboyd is going to make any firm commercial decisions anytime soon.

Its just like Brexit - politicians are so busy pushing their personal agenda's that the long term energy security of the whole country is now at risk. Yet another example of how pathetically incompetent the whole 650 of them are, its like watching playschool with 650 toddlers squabbling

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