Mr Plow

Are the RFL not accepting any new teams?

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Article in this weeks League Express that Manchester Rangers bid to join League 1 has been rejected. They say the only realistic option would be to buy an existing club and move/ rebrand them or give the RFL a £500,000 bond but no guarantee of entering the comp, plus they wouldn’t be eligible for central funding.

Interestingly, Koukash has been told the same thing RE Liverpool, which is obviously why he tried to but Widnes but seems to be going ahead with Liverpool anyway.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the New York bid, will NY and Liverpool have to buy their way into the system?

It seems the reason given to Manchester was that there are too many clubs in Greater Manchester area (how many clubs are around Liverpool?) Is it worth bribing up the Rochdale/ Oldham/ Swinton merger idea again?

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11 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Surely New York is dead?

Well the last thing that was made public was that the investors were concerned about how long it was taking for the RFL to make a decision, I think Major League Rugby approached them as well

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Some fans on here would be ecstatic if this was true. Only in RL would we not accept new teams when vast swathes of the country have little or no RL presence.

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33 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

I think Major League Rugby approached them as well

Where did you hear that? 

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10 minutes ago, Damien said:

Some fans on here would be ecstatic if this was true. Only in RL would we not accept new teams when vast swathes of the country have little or no RL presence.

You may be referring to say New York,  but otherwise I do not see how Manchester Rangers expands the game.

But let me be clear, I wish them well.  If we accept promotion or relegation then provided a club has suitable qualifications why should it not be possible for a leading amateur team get promoted?

But for what it is worth, I think the structure outside Super League should be changed. 

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11 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Where did you hear that? 

I’m sure it was in League Express one week, if you dig through you’ll probably find it, I’m sure there was an article about MLR sniffing around 

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I sometimes (a lot) think...I give up hope on the RFL's vision for the game....we start with expansion, then drop it, start again, then drop it....Have the most incredible opportunity via Toronto and North America (Whatever your views of it) and then limit access. Good job Rimmer et all. At this rate, we'll always be an M62 sport with an Intermittant London outpost, and South of France club with bags of potential - but oh yeah, make sure you charge them extra just in case they are successful!!!!!!!! Great job RFL

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Until the RFL accepts that a presence of London, Toronto, Toulouse, and New York in Super League are essential to grow the game, and bolster its finances, then rugby league will continue to be a parochial M62 sport suffering financial stress. 

Liverpool and perhaps Manchester would be nice, as would Newcastle and even Bristol, but their presence would have minimal impact on the game's general fortunes, as compared with the impact of the other four mentioned.

Edited by Manfred Mann
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'Manchester' is certainly catered for by several clubs. That much is true. But whether the RFL is shutting up shop regarding new applicants is a question they need to answer. Quickly.

We need to know 5 year and 10 year plans for overall structure (I'd be happy to see a move towards a conference structure), because there are a lot of non-heartland places where committed advocates of the game  exist and within which the possibility for sustainable growth is strong (my own area, Cornwall, is one such).

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Why does Rimmer keep asking people to give him 500 000 pounds all the time?....how does he even come up with that actual figure.   RL needs to be more welcoming to new investment...just look at all the hassles Toronto has has to put up with.

My  bill for that advice is 500 000 pounds please.

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20 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

Until the RFL accepts that a presence of London, Toronto, Toulouse, and New York in Super League are essential to grow the game, and bolster its finances, then rugby league will continue to be a parochial M62 sport suffering financial stress. 

Liverpool and perhaps Manchester would be nice, as would Newcastle and even Bristol, but their presence would have minimal impact on the game's general fortunes, as compared with the impact of the other four mentioned.

Couldn't agree more @Manfred Mann

I find it truly bizarre that when cash rich, passionate people enter our sport and say 'Hey, I'd like to start a club in....'New York, Toronto' or else where, we pull up the drawbidge. Yes, absolutely, do the due diligence on the ambitions and practicalities. 

I truly believe our sport has NEVER had a better chance of expanding into foreign fields (I love that Manchester Rangers and Koukash want to start new City clubs...and Im behind them - however, the UK is harder to break  -that doesn't mean stop them) But, look at Toronto, attracting 7k plus fans for home games. The along comes the appointment of Rimmer. Everything seems to stop. SL breaks away due to the mismanagement of the top tier in the RFL. I fear ill get to my pension and still be watching Warrington v (whichever next door neighbour town we have rivalry with - there's at least Wigan, Saints and Widnes) 

EVOLVE, MOVE, TAKE A RISK, GROW, DREAM BEYOND, BIG DREAMS, DARE TO BE BIGGER.......RFL Please employ a visionary with a team of implementors. 

I know the Celtic Crusaders was a big flop and crime beheld by their owner at the time - but, we lost another monumental opportunity there too.

You have to be a fully fledged RL fan to stick with this sport don't you?!

 

Toronto - Im following you, and believing in you, and hoping you truly 'shake' the status quo, and in time, produce your own home grown players. C'mon! I'd love a rivalry between the 'Wolves' and the 'Wolfpack'

 

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Can see the thinking behind the wariness of admitting a “new” Manchester club when we have Salford, Oldham, Swinton and Rochdale and Leigh and Wigan considered as Greater Manchester. 

I do doubt that The RFL has any plan in regards to the development of the game and the admission of new teams into the game. I think The RFL are going to alienate potential investors in the game by asking for a bond, if that’s true. 

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If the RFL had a plan I'd expect it to start with a 5 to 10 year concentrated  period of junior development which would include starting new competitions within the different chosen areas of the UK, this would/should start to produce a pool of players to fill the need required to develop clubs in new areas.

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13 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Can see the thinking behind the wariness of admitting a “new” Manchester club when we have Salford, Oldham, Swinton and Rochdale and Leigh and Wigan considered as Greater Manchester. 

I do doubt that The RFL has any plan in regards to the development of the game and the admission of new teams into the game. I think The RFL are going to alienate potential investors in the game by asking for a bond, if that’s true. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with demanding cash for entry. Franchise fees are required in American sports, but once you are paid up you should be a full voting member, not a guest and not excluded from certain competitions or central funding.

Edited by ojx
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I sometimes think there are people working for the RFL who have been planted there by our competitors. I think this is (yet another) huge mistake by the RFL. Manchester is one of our main cities that is known worldwide. Of all the clubs in Greater Manchester, half have been struggling along for years on very small crowds, and (lets be honest) not much sign that anything is going to change any season soon. So I can't see how admitting Manchester Rangers (& Liverpool for that matter) is going to have much impact on the existing clubs. What exactly have we got to lose?

The benefit of admitting Rangers is that we would have an ambitious new club based in one of the UKs largest cities, at a fantastic relatively new stadium - and as such will be more likely to attract more investment & quality sponsors than half of the existing Greater M/cr clubs. Heaven forbid that they may eat into the huge crowds that have been flocking to Rochdale, Oldham & Swinton.

The games national profile has never been lower. We need to encourage any new ambitious clubs in big cities to try to raise its profile. Instead, we now seem to have adopted a potentially damaging protectionist policy of not wanting to encourage new clubs in areas where there are existing clubs whose main aim appears to be to limp along on the edge of extinction year after year with no hint of a change in sight.

 

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6 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

I sometimes think there are people working for the RFL who have been planted there by our competitors. I think this is (yet another) huge mistake by the RFL. Manchester is one of our main cities that is known worldwide. Of all the clubs in Greater Manchester, half have been struggling along for years on very small crowds, and (lets be honest) not much sign that anything is going to change any season soon. So I can't see how admitting Manchester Rangers (& Liverpool for that matter) is going to have much impact on the existing clubs. What exactly have we got to lose?

The benefit of admitting Rangers is that we would have an ambitious new club based in one of the UKs largest cities, at a fantastic relatively new stadium - and as such will be more likely to attract more investment & quality sponsors than half of the existing Greater M/cr clubs. Heaven forbid that they may eat into the huge crowds that have been flocking to Rochdale, Oldham & Swinton.

The games national profile has never been lower. We need to encourage any new ambitious clubs in big cities to try to raise its profile. Instead, we now seem to have adopted a potentially damaging protectionist policy of not wanting to encourage new clubs in areas where there are existing clubs whose main aim appears to be to limp along on the edge of extinction year after year with no hint of a change in sight.

 

Where do we get the players from for all these new clubs  ?

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1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Why does Rimmer keep asking people to give him 500 000 pounds all the time?....how does he even come up with that actual figure.   RL needs to be more welcoming to new investment...just look at all the hassles Toronto has has to put up with.

 My  bill for that advice is 500 000 pounds please.

You could argue the amount, but I think it is fair for new 'pro' clubs to put up some sort of bond (e.g. 1 year salary cap for NL1 club) to:

1. Show that they are serious and have money

2. Cover player payments in case they go broke

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33 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Where do we get the players from for all these new clubs  ?

In M/cr Rangers case, they already have players. They are an existing club. Admittedly, not all their players will want to go part time or be good enough. They will almost certainly need to bring in some experience. They will struggle to win many games at first. But for a start, how about the fringe players at clubs who struggle for a game because there is no credible reserve league?  Also, there are numerous amateur clubs all within a couple of hours drive. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of probability that a few half decent amateur players would jump at the chance to play for Rangers. They aren't a hard sell (ambitious new city based club debuting in League 1 playing at the Etihad complex). Long term, Rangers have already begun some development work in the city getting RL played in some schools. As far as I'm aware, they have also set up a development club (Belle Vue Bees) who play at Belle Vue Sports Village. They are already a RFL accredited Player Development Club.

If we aren't allowing Rangers to enter the league solely just because we are wondering where they can get say 10 to 15 or so players we really are in trouble as a sport.  
 

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The Rfl need to stop using their own incompetence and some English clubs incompetence as an excuse to not allow new ambitious clubs to join the English rl system.

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7 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

You may be referring to say New York,  but otherwise I do not see how Manchester Rangers expands the game.

But let me be clear, I wish them well.  If we accept promotion or relegation then provided a club has suitable qualifications why should it not be possible for a leading amateur team get promoted?

But for what it is worth, I think the structure outside Super League should be changed. 

There is no professional team in Manchester and next to no RL presence in one of the biggest cities in England, of course it expands the game. We should be aiming for teams up and down the country in every major town and city, not saying no because there are some up to 15 miles away in towns in Greater Manchester who people in Manchester have absolutely no connection to.

Football and RU do very well and have widespread support with teams up and down the land. We seem to be intent to contract backwards towards 2 professional leagues again and no real pyramid. Then we wonder why much of the country doesn't give a damn about RL.

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7 hours ago, Pyjamarama said:

I sometimes think there are people working for the RFL who have been planted there by our competitors. I think this is (yet another) huge mistake by the RFL. Manchester is one of our main cities that is known worldwide. Of all the clubs in Greater Manchester, half have been struggling along for years on very small crowds, and (lets be honest) not much sign that anything is going to change any season soon. So I can't see how admitting Manchester Rangers (& Liverpool for that matter) is going to have much impact on the existing clubs. What exactly have we got to lose?

The benefit of admitting Rangers is that we would have an ambitious new club based in one of the UKs largest cities, at a fantastic relatively new stadium - and as such will be more likely to attract more investment & quality sponsors than half of the existing Greater M/cr clubs. Heaven forbid that they may eat into the huge crowds that have been flocking to Rochdale, Oldham & Swinton.

The games national profile has never been lower. We need to encourage any new ambitious clubs in big cities to try to raise its profile. Instead, we now seem to have adopted a potentially damaging protectionist policy of not wanting to encourage new clubs in areas where there are existing clubs whose main aim appears to be to limp along on the edge of extinction year after year with no hint of a change in sight.

 

Would it be worth Manchester Rangers buying say Oldham then? Rebrand them and move them to the Etihad? I mean Oldham don’t get great crowds anyway, their ground only holds 1,500 and the original club went bust in 1997. 

You could make the same argument for Swinton and Rochdale as well, what have they got to lose

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I don't necessarily mind the RFL admitting or not admitting particular teams but I would like to think that there is a well thought out plan. Unfortunately I strongly doubt that there is.

When Toronto were admitted then there should have been plans put in place to build on that. Introducing another team 2 Or 3 years later, on the road games in these new locations, internationals played there. This all looked like it was happening a year or 2 ago but has gone very quiet. It seems as soon as they hit a bump then they retreat back to the heartlands and that effort goes to waste.

If north America isn't what they want then they could do similar in France. Guarantee Toulouse 3 years in superleague, introduce another French team into league 1 now and another in 3 years, give France an England game and NZ game, maybe a world club challenge game.

Or make a concerted effort in London or Newcastle or the south west. Magic, internationals, development officers. The problem with the RFL is they dabble with each of these but never commit. It is so half baked that progress is rarely made and so is thrown away and used as an argument not to try. I genuinely think that we as a sport will never fully break out from the heartlands, which as a convert to the sport makes me sad. It is a great game and deserves greater exposure and reward. 

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9 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Why does Rimmer keep asking people to give him 500 000 pounds all the time?....how does he even come up with that actual figure.   RL needs to be more welcoming to new investment...just look at all the hassles Toronto has has to put up with.

My  bill for that advice is 500 000 pounds please.

Rimmer really is reprehensible to hold the position of CEO at the RFL.

The man is incompetent and parochial, and gormless when at this time we need someone who is able and has a vision at CEO at the RFL.

 

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