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2 minutes ago, M j M said:

Because their careless (putting it politely), actions are bringing this country to its knees. And they will never, ever, ever accept the consequences. It will seemingly always be someone else's fault and they will seemingly always be the victims whilst smearing others for caring too much, knowing too much or empathising too much.

All you are doing there is expressing an opinion based on your remainer viewpoint.  It's the same theme as the leavers are thick angle which is becoming just as boring.

Instead of insulting people why not try and back up your own view with making a positive case for staying in the EU?  I didn't hear a positive case during the referendum campaign, only OTT warnings of doom and gloom, and I haven't heard it subsequent to the referendum vote, only more OTT warnings of doom and gloom.  It seems to me that there are many people who are terrified of the UK standing on its own two feet, that we won't be able to cope, that we need propping up by our fwends and bruvvers over the channel.  

I don't happen to see things as you do.  That doesn't make me (or fellow leavers) careless or thick or victims or anything.  It just means that I have a different take on things than you do and after 30 years of maturing my viewpoint on the EU I am firmly committed to it.  In fact, the more outrageous the claims made by remainers in government and outwith it, the more entrenched I become in my position, ably assisted by all those direct and indirect insults that come my way on here and elsewhere from those remainers who simply refuse or are unable to accept that there is another totally valid way of viewing the world to their own.

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4 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

  It seems to me that there are many people who are terrified of the UK standing on its own two feet, that we won't be able to cope, that we need propping up by our fwends and bruvvers over the channel.  

 

Passive aggressive! 

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Just like we stood on our own two feet before...subjugating people across the world as part of the British Empire, or showing that Dunkirk spirit (whilst the US bailed us out with Lend Lease and previously Cash and Carry).

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12 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

All you are doing there is expressing an opinion based on your remainer viewpoint.  It's the same theme as the leavers are thick angle which is becoming just as boring.

Instead of insulting people why not try and back up your own view with making a positive case for staying in the EU?  I didn't hear a positive case during the referendum campaign, only OTT warnings of doom and gloom, and I haven't heard it subsequent to the referendum vote, only more OTT warnings of doom and gloom.  It seems to me that there are many people who are terrified of the UK standing on its own two feet, that we won't be able to cope, that we need propping up by our fwends and bruvvers over the channel.  

I don't happen to see things as you do.  That doesn't make me (or fellow leavers) careless or thick or victims or anything.  It just means that I have a different take on things than you do and after 30 years of maturing my viewpoint on the EU I am firmly committed to it.  In fact, the more outrageous the claims made by remainers in government and outwith it, the more entrenched I become in my position, ably assisted by all those direct and indirect insults that come my way on here and elsewhere from those remainers who simply refuse or are unable to accept that there is another totally valid way of viewing the world to their own.

You've had so many facts presented to you and you've dismissed them all. As you say, being presented with the facts makes you more determined to not believe them. It's not really worth going through them all again when there is no chance of the truth ever getting through.

And it's nothing at all to do with "standing on our own two feet", what an absurd way to even begin to try and understand international relations and the reality of modern trade. It's this sort of relentless attempt to try and overlay childish simplicity to profoundly complicated issues that helps get Brexiteers that reputation for not being the brightest tools in the box.

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You've had so many facts presented to you..... 

 

I think you mean opinions. 

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Four legs good - two legs bad

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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

You've had so many facts presented to you..... 

 

I think you mean opinions. 

Brexit summed up. Facts aren't facts in this parallel world.

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7 hours ago, JohnM said:

You've had so many facts presented to you..... 

 

I think you mean opinions. 

I seem to recall that your opinion was (is?) that we should stay in.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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8 hours ago, M j M said:

You've had so many facts presented to you and you've dismissed them all. As you say, being presented with the facts makes you more determined to not believe them. It's not really worth going through them all again when there is no chance of the truth ever getting through.

And it's nothing at all to do with "standing on our own two feet", what an absurd way to even begin to try and understand international relations and the reality of modern trade. It's this sort of relentless attempt to try and overlay childish simplicity to profoundly complicated issues that helps get Brexiteers that reputation for not being the brightest tools in the box.

As a leave voter I am prepared to listen then. Can you furnish me with the facts on these simple questions?

1. If we leave the EU without a deal, what will the UK's economy be like in 5 years time?

2. If we leave the EU with a deal what, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

3. If we remain in the EU, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

Feel free to give me a FACTUAL answer to any or all the above questions and I will see if you can change my mind. 

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53 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

And that's a FACT! 

Probably the only one in the whole "debate"

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Four legs good - two legs bad

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32 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

As a leave voter I am prepared to listen then. Can you furnish me with the facts on these simple questions?

1. If we leave the EU without a deal, what will the UK's economy be like in 5 years time?

2. If we leave the EU with a deal what, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

3. If we remain in the EU, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

Feel free to give me a FACTUAL answer to any or all the above questions and I will see if you can change my mind. 

I haven’t been punted in the nuts by steel toecapped boots but I know it’d bloody well hurt. Some things don’t need 100% evidential proof, just an honest belief based on all the evidence you have available. 

For Brexiters, that “evidence” is non existent and about as reliable as the belief you’ll win the National lottery jackpot in the next draw. 

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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51 minutes ago, ckn said:

I haven’t been punted in the nuts by steel toecapped boots but I know it’d bloody well hurt. Some things don’t need 100% evidential proof, just an honest belief based on all the evidence you have available. 

For Brexiters, that “evidence” is non existent and about as reliable as the belief you’ll win the National lottery jackpot in the next draw. 

Being punted in the nuts hurts is a fact because it has happened in the past, evidenced and used for future reference.

Can you, or anyone give me a FACTUAL answer to 1 or all of my above questions?

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Just now, Private Baldrick said:

Being punted in the nuts hurts is a fact because it has happened in the past, evidenced and used for future reference.

Can you, or anyone give me a FACTUAL answer to 1 or all of my above questions?

No, because you're a troll.  Unlike folk like Saintslass and JohnM, I feel no need to spend more than a few seconds responding to you in anything more than the most flippant of manner.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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Just now, ckn said:

No, because you're a troll.  Unlike folk like Saintslass and JohnM, I feel no need to spend more than a few seconds responding to you in anything more than the most flippant of manner.

Ah the usual fall back answer of being a troll!

Like other people you disagree with I suppose I will be put on ignore so that nothing disturbs the echo chamber.

All I asked for was a factual answer to a question! 

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10 hours ago, M j M said:

You've had so many facts presented to you and you've dismissed them all. As you say, being presented with the facts makes you more determined to not believe them. It's not really worth going through them all again when there is no chance of the truth ever getting through.

And it's nothing at all to do with "standing on our own two feet", what an absurd way to even begin to try and understand international relations and the reality of modern trade. It's this sort of relentless attempt to try and overlay childish simplicity to profoundly complicated issues that helps get Brexiteers that reputation for not being the brightest tools in the box.

You are confusing facts and projections.  All I have read on here over the last three years - insults aside obvs - have been projections.  

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2 hours ago, Private Baldrick said:

As a leave voter I am prepared to listen then. Can you furnish me with the facts on these simple questions?

1. If we leave the EU without a deal, what will the UK's economy be like in 5 years time?

2. If we leave the EU with a deal what, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

3. If we remain in the EU, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

Feel free to give me a FACTUAL answer to any or all the above questions and I will see if you can change my mind. 

Odd. I thought that it was about national identity and not being subsumed into an EU superstate which, in your opinion, is just days away.

So why have you gone back to the economic argument?


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

You are confusing facts and projections.  All I have read on here over the last three years - insults aside obvs - have been projections.  

Okay. The fact is that without the billions pumped into the economy by the Bank of England that the country would now be in recession, outward investment has plummeted, the only growth area has been  stockpiling, people who’ve been years are leaving, services are suffering through shortages and the new passport will be made in France and is the wrong shade of blue.

No projections there.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Odd. I thought that it was about national identity and not being subsumed into an EU superstate which, in your opinion, is just days away.

So why have you gone back to the economic argument?

As usual you fail to understand my post.

People on here are quoting facts about what the state of our economy is going to be like. I am merely asking for facts of what the country will be like in 5 years time. Maybe you could impart some facts so that we can all see?

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6 hours ago, Private Baldrick said:

As a leave voter I am prepared to listen then. Can you furnish me with the facts on these simple questions?

1. If we leave the EU without a deal, what will the UK's economy be like in 5 years time?

2. If we leave the EU with a deal what, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

3. If we remain in the EU, what will the economy be like in 5 years time?

Feel free to give me a FACTUAL answer to any or all the above questions and I will see if you can change my mind. 

I'll give a factual answer. No one knows! No one who wants to Leave knows, no one who wants to Remain knows. 

 

Now can we get back to "debating" opinions/heresay and exchanging insults! 

Edited by Wiltshire Rhino
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2014 Challenged Cup Winner

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Okay. The fact is that without the billions pumped into the economy by the Bank of England that the country would now be in recession, outward investment has plummeted, the only growth area has been  stockpiling, people who’ve been years are leaving, services are suffering through shortages and the new passport will be made in France and is the wrong shade of blue.

No projections there.

Really?  So the BoE didn't do a thing when the 2008 crash happened then?  No pumping money in?  It was all Brexit, even before the possibility of a referendum was ever discussed?  Amazing.

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3 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

I'll give a factual answer. No one knows! No one who wants to Leave knows, no one who wants to Remain knows. 

Exactly right.

So then what it is down to is what a person considers to be the best thing.  Those of us who voted to leave believe leaving was the best thing; those who voted remain I assume believed remaining was the best thing.  

It's that simple but apparently it's all about facts; facts that can't be facts because they haven't happened.

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2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Really?  So the BoE didn't do a thing when the 2008 crash happened then?  No pumping money in?  It was all Brexit, even before the possibility of a referendum was ever discussed?  Amazing.

Ah back to the recessions and quantitative easing has happened in the past therefore can’t be anything to do with Brexit line.

The BoE pumped billions into the economy in 2008 because of the global recession. 

The BoE pumped billions into the economy in 2016 because of?  There wasn’t a global recession, so wasn’t that?  The exchange rates plummeted at the same time, so I wonder if there was an event that caused that too?  Silly me, exchange rates have plummeted before so that was perfectly normal.  So why did the BoE feel the need to engage in quantitative easing, something they have only previously done when the economy is in recession?

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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20 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Just like we stood on our own two feet before...subjugating people across the world as part of the British Empire, or showing that Dunkirk spirit (whilst the US bailed us out with Lend Lease and previously Cash and Carry).

Dunkirk spirit, heavily imbibed in brexit circles 


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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