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It’s Ottawa in 2020 says Eric Perez

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While NY RL looks sexy on paper I do agree that the potential in Canada (Ottawa) is greater..I love the Yanks but they are a bit delusional -after all they consider their Major League Baseball championship a World Series when only they (and Toronto it must be said as we have won it a couple of times!) play in it..They consider Stock Car racing (ie Nascar) their own world class championship when the participating cars are anything but stock and the most advanced engine in the series is made by Toyota. And to top it off they voted in a semi-illiterate boor to lead the free world. Having said all that, a US  RL team in a smaller market close to the existing Canadian team(s) such as Buffalo could possibly succeed.  And speaking of delusional - WHEN both Canadian teams are thriving will ParqueCider just revert to wearing his tinfoil hat and tone down the gloom and doom rhetoric or will we have to continue to put up with it?

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51 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

"Now relax...lay back on the couch and continue expanding on you delusions...Its Okay; just say the first thing that pops into your mind, no one is being judgmental...just put on these earphones and listen to the sensual music....I'm just going to turn oup the volume for a minute..."

I pick up the telephone:

"Mary get the people from the insane asylum over here quick...I've got another nutter on the couch...totally delusional....tell them to use the siren if they have to....seems very unstable...bring the Taser and straight jacket."

"There, there now...wasn't that a nice song...now drink this...its only a mild sedative...relax...I have some friends who are coming over talk to you and take you to a nice quirt place now....easy Boy...easy...

jack.jpg

You're a nasty piece of work who lacks basic human empathy.  Enjoy shouting into the void.

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Not sure where your sister was in Toronto but it’s usually ranked as a top world food city. I have enjoyed my trips there. Reminds me of some of the nicer parts of Chicago.

Edited by westside
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I'd like to see both Ottawa and New York bids approved depending on the detail of the bid.  I also think that you need to stagger their entry as it would be hard for League 1 clubs to cope with 2 overseas visits a year.

On top of that there needs to be a plan of how the whole game copes with greater interest from oversesas.  For Ottawa & New York we could cope by making Superleague a 14 team competition but where do we go from there?

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It's always bemusing to hear Cas fans suggesting new Clubs could be accepted into SL based on criteria. Please, Enlighten us as to what criteria excepting on field success. 

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2 hours ago, bbfaz said:

You're a nasty piece of work who lacks basic human empathy.  Enjoy shouting into the void.

Well if you were to try not insulting a fellows country, his old home town, the food he eats...his rugby team...etc.....and many other things about his homeland, then continuing spreading mistruths and false things.....

Well if you were to try not doing those things....well things might turn our a little better for ya.

Did you ever consider that?

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1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Well if you were to try not insulting a fellows country, his old home town, the food he eats...his rugby team...etc.....and many other things about his homeland, then continuing spreading mistruths and false things.....

Well if you were to try not doing those things....well things might turn our a little better for ya.

Did you ever consider that?

Cakers gonna cake.

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4 hours ago, RobertAM said:

While NY RL looks sexy on paper I do agree that the potential in Canada (Ottawa) is greater..I love the Yanks but they are a bit delusional -after all they consider their Major League Baseball championship a World Series when only they (and Toronto it must be said as we have won it a couple of times!) play in it..They consider Stock Car racing (ie Nascar) their own world class championship when the participating cars are anything but stock and the most advanced engine in the series is made by Toyota. And to top it off they voted in a semi-illiterate boor to lead the free world. Having said all that, a US  RL team in a smaller market close to the existing Canadian team(s) such as Buffalo could possibly succeed.  And speaking of delusional - WHEN both Canadian teams are thriving will ParqueCider just revert to wearing his tinfoil hat and tone down the gloom and doom rhetoric or will we have to continue to put up with it?

I want people to be realistic and not jingoistic.

What's the end game here?  Creating a core of Canadian teams in the Quebec-Windsor corridor to spin off into their own league?  How many teams can this area (18m people, spread over an area 11% the size of Britain) realistically support in the English leagues?  More pertinently, how far are a Canadian airline willing to go to support this endeavour?  Without Air Transat, Toronto Wolfpack are just another idea that never got off the ground.  How committed are they to supporting Ottawa as well?  What about Montreal or Hamilton or Quebec City or a second Toronto side?  Transat barely operate out of Ottawa and have no flights to the UK.  They have seasonal flights from Gatwick to Montreal.  Without the support of Transat or Air Canada, this is a non-starter.

Coming back to the Corridor itself, how's this a big prize for the game?  The corridor is about 75% bigger than England but has about a third of the population.  The country in total covers six timezones and only a handful of cities can reasonably be expected to support the sport to any reasonable level.  The population is just over half that of the entire British isles.  It doesn't strike me as a real prize.

Toronto are in business because David Argyle says they are.  He's a wealthy man, he's a passionate Rugby League man, he has decided to take the Wolfpack on.  Who's the next David Argyle?

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11 minutes ago, bbfaz said:

I want people to be realistic and not jingoistic.

What's the end game here?  Creating a core of Canadian teams in the Quebec-Windsor corridor to spin off into their own league?  How many teams can this area (18m people, spread over an area 11% the size of Britain) realistically support in the English leagues?  More pertinently, how far are a Canadian airline willing to go to support this endeavour?  Without Air Transat, Toronto Wolfpack are just another idea that never got off the ground.  How committed are they to supporting Ottawa as well?  What about Montreal or Hamilton or Quebec City or a second Toronto side?  Transat barely operate out of Ottawa and have no flights to the UK.  They have seasonal flights from Gatwick to Montreal.  Without the support of Transat or Air Canada, this is a non-starter.

Coming back to the Corridor itself, how's this a big prize for the game?  The corridor is about 75% bigger than England but has about a third of the population.  The country in total covers six timezones and only a handful of cities can reasonably be expected to support the sport to any reasonable level.  The population is just over half that of the entire British isles.  It doesn't strike me as a real prize.

Toronto are in business because David Argyle says they are.  He's a wealthy man, he's a passionate Rugby League man, he has decided to take the Wolfpack on.  Who's the next David Argyle?

Oh dear, likely no one has thought about any of this...well I guess we can all go home now.  Geez, take a valium!

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Imagine mighty New York playing little Workington Town? The whole concept is ludicrous. New York and Ottawa should be fast tracked into the Championship.

The only demand that should be made of these big city clubs is that they have a professional marketing department and that they create a junior structure to spread the game at the grass roots.

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6 hours ago, bbfaz said:

She lives in Vancouver now but lived in Toronto before.  If she were single, she'd move back to Toronto because Vancouver is an utter joke and she feels like there are no job prospects there.  Vancouver is a city, of course, but it has the mentality of a going-nowhere small town, with rampant cronyism and out-of-control drug abuse.  In saying that, Toronto was ludicrously expensive, she couldn't get around without the car (which they shared) and she felt that if they could live there, they might as well live somewhere enjoyable.  She made a mistake by assuming that Vancouver was any better.  She should've cut bait and returned to the UK when the Canadian government told her that her university didn't exist but her partner was determined to make it work in Canada and has a very nice life wherever she will go.

Overrated, poor standard of living, weird people.  That's her take on it, she knows she's made a mistake.  However, what can you do when you have a government that spends millions a year spreading a false view of what it's like to emigrate there?  It's a trap, it's a confidence trick.  Rather than be realistic about the limitations of their country, Canadians further this nonsense.  Drake lives in LA but makes great money talking up "the 6".  It's a national industry of lies and deception.

However, given how absolutely squirrel-faeces nuts you are, Kayak, I don't expect you to take any of this on board so please don't reply and tell me how wrong I am or how my sister is an idiot.  You're one of them, a caker, and that's fine.  Just accept that other people don't share your enthusiasm.

Where in Toronto did your sister live that she needed a car? I walked everywhere when I lived there. And if she thought it was expensive, she should avoid London. And can you provide an example of the government spending millions a years giving a false view to draw immigrants? Also why are they trying to draw immigrants when there is a queue of people trying to get in?

Could it be that your sister’s experience doesn’t represent the general feeling of most immigrants to Canada? I am sure there are others on this board who would have different experiences. I know my inlaws love that they immigrated to Toronto but that is purely anecdotal just like your sister. 

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2 hours ago, bbfaz said:

Cakers gonna cake.

Are you Portuguese? Because outside of the Portuguese cook I use to work with, I never heard anyone use that term. 

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1 hour ago, RobertAM said:

Oh dear, likely no one has thought about any of this...well I guess we can all go home now.  Geez, take a valium!

So essentially you have nothing to contribute to this discussion?  Are you aware of the word "wasteman" and how it applies to you?

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14 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

Where in Toronto did your sister live that she needed a car? I walked everywhere when I lived there. And if she thought it was expensive, she should avoid London. And can you provide an example of the government spending millions a years giving a false view to draw immigrants? Also why are they trying to draw immigrants when there is a queue of people trying to get in?

 Could it be that your sister’s experience doesn’t represent the general feeling of most immigrants to Canada? I am sure there are others on this board who would have different experiences. I know my inlaws love that they immigrated to Toronto but that is purely anecdotal just like your sister. 

In order:

Suburbs, out east, can't remember, think it was Oshawa.

Good for you, you must've lived somewhere better than she did.  My tourist friends have always been stunned at how bad the public transport is in Toronto.

Expensive for what it is.  London isn't so expensive when you are earning pounds, though pricey for tourists.

There has been a history of lies perpetuated by any number of sources to drive immigration to Canada going back over 100 years.  They don't hide it, they were trying to talk up the Canadian Prairies as a new home for skilled British farmers pre-First World War.  The immigration department spent 2m in 2 years on Facebook advertising alone, so much for the queue of people.  Conservative/nativist politicians in Canada are kicking up such a fuss about the current immigration system, the current government launched a website to sing the praises of immigration and the current system.  It's a bit of a mess tbh.

I think that my sister's experiences are more representative than people would like to believe.  Anecdotally, looking at places like Quora or Reddit, it's full of horror stories that you might be a highly-educated engineer in your home country but it's likely that your qualifications won't be recognised and you'll end up driving a taxi or working as a cashier, trapped in your situation because of disproportionately high costs of living.  You think it'll happen to somebody else, somebody from Pakistan or China, but it can happen to anybody.  Hey, not everywhere is sweetness and light.  Everywhere has problems.  Male life expectancy in the East End of Glasgow and the North End of Winnipeg aren't dissimilar and are worse than some developing world countries.  The difference is that one country isn't in denial that there's a massive problem, the other one is.

I also love how you assume I'm "ethnic".  If you're going to start worrying that I'm not Anglo-Saxon, get your word origins right and learn that caker came from the Italian community.

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This thread gets more bizarre and random every time I look at it and some literally look for any excuse as to why the game shouldn't expand. 

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22 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

 I'm a sky subscriber and a SL season ticket holder and I'm sure as hell interested in North American teams - you repeatedly state your opinion as fact.

So are you "Interested" enough for these American teams to replace English teams in Superleague as that is the Perez plan "5-6  north american teams are needed in Superleague to secure a large North American TV deal". That is his own "fact", and I know it's a fact fans of Huddersfield, HKR, Castleford, Wakey and Salford and their owners do not want to step aside nor do fans and owners of Bradford or Widnes want to be shut out of SL forever. Over to you Mr. Facts? 

21 hours ago, Damien said:

Hopefully both clubs will be admitted, providing they can provide the appropriate guarantees and bonds of course.

The criteria are not "Guarantee's and Bond's" they need to provide TV deals to share and produce pro quality RL players. Don't make things up, even Perez is stating they will produce players because even he now admits that's a requirement (not that I believe he will do it - failed badly with CRL and TWP on this)

21 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Thinking about it, I can envisage a scenario where both are admitted on the proviso SL expands to 14 teams

This must be wishful thinking, only last year Superleague moved to go to 10 clubs but were blocked. Where would the players come from Tommy?

21 hours ago, londonrlfan said:

I'm just hoping they don't reject Ottawa in favour of NYC because it's a bigger name. 

This is another post that re-invents the entry criteria to keep the fantasy alive "Middlesborough" is quite a big name why don't we put them into Superelague, Bombay is quite a large city - why not them?

17 hours ago, Big Picture said:

When most of the pro clubs are in small towns up north how on earth do you expect such clubs to deliver anything more than just slowing the decline?

"The decline" started around 1912 when the Welsh clubs pulled out. it was at its worst around 1970 but we are in a far better place than 1970 today. We have a large TV deal and we produce enough players to stock a pro-league to service that deal. Our clubs deliver. Do your clubs deliver paying TV deals and Pro-players?  Do you not know about the history of Canadian RL not "declining" but actually dying out altogether - twice.

17 hours ago, Cdd said:

Ottawa seems far more reliable: - Partnership with Ottawa sports - The track record of Perez setting up Toronto speaks for itself, - Instant rivalry with Toronto and close proximity .  Capitol city, - Fantastic stadium

Your criteria for entry to the game here are made up - They need to produce players and underpin a paying NA TV contract. Read Mr. Perez's own words on this please. He agrees with me.

9 hours ago, themainbrace said:

. For Ottawa & New York we could cope by making Superleague a 14 team competition but where do we go from there?

As above we don't have the players for 14 clubs and therefore your made up NA clubs would in reality struggle to compete in SL and would populate the places at the bottom of the league. The best players are in the UK where they would stay. Life is soooo rosy when TWP are winning most of their games in the Championship. Huddersfield  once went undefeated in the Championship under their rich owner but they struggle to compete. TWP aren't getting 10K for losing all the time nor will kids bother to play or NATV companies give a large paying TV contract to a Canadian version of Huddersfield.

6 hours ago, bbfaz said:

I want people to be realistic and not jingoistic.

Toronto are in business because David Argyle says they are.  He's a wealthy man, he's a passionate Rugby League man, he has decided to take the Wolfpack on.  Who's the next David Argyle?

This is reality, we put up with TWP as we want David Argyle's $Billions. But we want him for London Skolars. A strong London side competing hard for trophies is the expansion we need as McNeil set out in 2013. If we are to "engineer" the make up of Super league this needs to be the positive move we make. Anyway keep flying the flag of reason.....

Edited by The Parksider
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18 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

The criteria are not "Guarantee's and Bond's" they need to provide TV deals to share and produce pro quality RL players. Don't make things up, even Perez is stating they will produce players because even he now admits that's a requirement (not that I believe he will do it - failed badly with CRL and TWP on this)

Take heed of your own words. Please show me where the RFL criteria for entry states that they must provide TV deals or produce their own players, thanks.

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13 minutes ago, Damien said:

Take heed of your own words. Please show me where the RFL criteria for entry states that they must provide TV deals or produce their own players, thanks.

Sorry but I'm with Parky here.

If it isn't official criteria it should be.

Producing players and generating money should be the two most important criteria for the RFL

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1 minute ago, JM2010 said:

Sorry but I'm with Parky here.

If it isn't official criteria it should be.

Producing players and generating money should be the two most important criteria for the RFL

He's making stuff up and its simply ludicrous.

If he is criticising me saying they should only be admitted if they provide the necessary guarantees and criteria required by the RFL and bonds then its complete nonsense to say disregard that criteria and instead implement some make believe Parky criteria.

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43 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

So are you "Interested" enough for these American teams to replace English teams in Superleague as that is the Perez plan "5-6  north american teams are needed in Superleague to secure a large North American TV deal". That is his own "fact", and I know it's a fact fans of Huddersfield, HKR, Castleford, Wakey and Salford and their owners do not want to step aside nor do fans and owners of Bradford or Widnes want to be shut out of SL forever. Over to you Mr. Facts? 

In short, yes, although I think we'll find that they won't replace but rather will add to the league anyhow - primarily because English SL clubs will attempt to avoid promotion and relegation (at the expense of the likes of Widnes and Bradford). You reflect what York's chairman has said on number of occasions where too many clubs are concerned so much with their slice of the pie that they cannot see the benefits of increasing the size of the pie overall. Lets be real here the potential to grow that pie is enormous if clubs are dynamic and embrace the world.

43 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

This must be wishful thinking, only last year Superleague moved to go to 10 clubs but were blocked. Where would the players come from Tommy?

The idea that this is about the availability of quality players is a misnomer. This is all about having clubs capable financially of paying for those players. Any new North American team would be spending up to cap - a point that is not true of a number of current and former Super League clubs. 

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22 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Sorry but I'm with Parky here.

If it isn't official criteria it should be.

Producing players and generating money should be the two most important criteria for the RFL

Salford don't have an academy and Hull FC and KR share theirs...

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And ?

Thus they don't 'produce players' as the quoted poster required. 

As soon as half of SL start imposing criteria on new clubs it becomes very much a case of people in glass houses and getting tied up in knots.

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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thus they don't 'produce players' as the quoted poster required. 

As soon as half of SL start imposing criteria on new clubs it becomes very much a case of people in glass houses and getting tied up in knots.

Well the Hull clubs do , that they believe that there isn't enough quality juniors within their area to run 2 academies of a competitive standard is the worry ? , 

Similarily Salford are essentially feeding from the same table of juniors as Wigan,Wire and Saints , and because of that they get 4th pick which again makes producing players of SL standard very difficult for Salford , I have plenty of arguments with fellow Leigh fans about us not running an academy , we have tried , but due quite simply to not being able to entice enough quality to compete makes it a worthless enterprise 

The situation with the NA teams is slightly different , the suggestion made by Mr Perez was that they'd convert Gridiron players , that won't happen , they just do not have the skill set required , the only chance of finding genuine NA ( Canadian ) Pro RL players is to find Union players who have some RL experience ( possibly Pacific Island background ) as juniors , but even that will need a coach who is willing to take the risk , rather than just pick up SL/Championship/NRL and lower tier Aussies/Kiwis 

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21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thus they don't 'produce players' as the quoted poster required. 

As soon as half of SL start imposing criteria on new clubs it becomes very much a case of people in glass houses and getting tied up in knots.

I don't think it should just be for new clubs. It should be a minimum criteria for all clubs.

I don't have a problem with shared academies for the elite players as I think they have their benefits.

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