Maximus Decimus Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: Sorry, but its just an old historic building that is damaged by fire. Yes no doubt some old stuff has been destroyed etc. While sad, its hardly worth in my opinion, the various News Channels spending hours watching it for no real reason. Hopefully nobody is injured or killed. The 30 years since 96 people died is far more interesting. Eight people dead from a Tornado in the USA is far more news worthy, as is the situation in Sudan. Seems people think more of an old historical building than news that is of far more interest and affects peoples lives. You have a very naive view of what should appear on the news. It has never been and will never be a list of what has had the most fatalities in a given day. In 30 years time, we'll all remember the time Notre Dame had a huge fire, none of us will remember 8 people dying in a tornado in America. If you've got any problems with that, take it up with human nature. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Yes, it's a tragedy, especially if it is an icon of your faith. However, the building has not been destroyed. The main structure remains and the building can be rebuilt, will be rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 10 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said: I went to the nazi rally grounds in nuremberg a couple of years ago. There is a huge concrete podium and banking around a massive square. This is where Hitler addressed thousands of his troops with those powerful speeches he gave. I sat looking at that podium and saw Hitler standing there shouting to his troops, waving his arm around as he did. We went there a couple of years ago. We had a discussion about the three options - restoration, allowing it to crumble (the current option) or razing it to the ground. Opinion was fairly divided among the group between the latter two - nobody agreed with restoration in that case. What was more incongruous to me was the holding there of a truck rally. Churches and cathedrals have along history of catching fire - sometimes being completely destroyed. York had a very serious fire a few years ago. Even if we didn't intervene to keep them in good condition these kind of problems would still occur. I also appreciate the existence of old buildings - they save history from just being something you read about in books. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copa Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 13 hours ago, gingerjon said: In less than two hours, a thousand years of civilisation has been destroyed. Not really. An old building, albeit a significant one, was destroyed. That’s all. Fortunately it appears nobody was killed and in the modern age all of its symbols, architecture and artworks have been recorded. It’s good to see them in real life but everything is destroyed eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 It's remarkable that it hasn't been destroyed, but destroyed it has not been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 10 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said: One of my biggest passions is architecture. My greatest passion is history and the two go hand in hand and it is perhaps that reason I am most heartbroken today. The destruction of a truly iconic and historical building like this is like the death of the history that goes with it. Great buildings are the embodiment of history, of all the millions of people that have been a part of them. I feel their memory lives on within these places. When I walk round a great place in history I am able to imagine the people that were there, what happened there and feel so close to it, almost a part of that history. I went to the nazi rally grounds in nuremberg a couple of years ago. There is a huge concrete podium and banking around a massive square. This is where Hitler addressed thousands of his troops with those powerful speeches he gave. I sat looking at that podium and saw Hitler standing there shouting to his troops, waving his arm around as he did. It took courage for me to walk over to the podium and stand on it and place my hands on the railing. I was stood in the exact spot, the exact spot, where Adolf Hitler had once stood. My feet were touching the exact bit of concrete his had done, my hands the exact railing his had done. I saw those troops out there in front of me. At that moment I was so overcome with emotion and I am man enough to admit I cried. If that building wasn't there anymore I wouldn't have had that experience. I would have shrugged my shoulders and walked past without a second thought. That is just one example of many many similar experiences I have had at these places. My favourite city is berlin. I have walked through the brandenburg gate and down unten den linden like all those great world leaders. I have stood in alexanderplatz and marvelled at that great soviet TV tower. I have touched the last remaining segments of the berlin wall and felt the pain of those imprisoned behind it and visited hohenshonhausen prison where the stasi tortured so many people and in fact met former inmates, listened to their stories and felt a part of that history. I went to devin Castle in Slovakia and stood on the battlements watching napoleon's armies blasting it to pieces. I've been to cologne cathedral and watched the city burn around it as the allies relentlessly bombed it. And you know what other piece of history I've lived? I've been there when napoleon I was crowned at notre dame cathedral. History that people like me might not be able to experience, might not be able to be a part of in quite the same way now as the physical embodiment of that truly mind-blowing piece of human history disappears, "like tears in the rain"... Excellent . Places and buildings resonate and embody history . They form a huge part of informing us of history . It’s the nearest we get . Some places can’t escape it , you’re taken back through being there . Not just a building or an environment , they tell a story and losing them destroys what they’ve embodied and you lose part of your history . Rebuilding is brilliant , but it’s never the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Wire Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, DavidM said: Excellent . Places and buildings resonate and embody history . They form a huge part of informing us of history . It’s the nearest we get . Some places can’t escape it , you’re taken back through being there . Not just a building or an environment , they tell a story and losing them destroys what they’ve embodied and you lose part of your history . Rebuilding is brilliant , but it’s never the same I visited Harlech castle last week. I spent a while learning about its history in the interactive visitor centre, then stood looking out from the castle walls envisaging what it must have been like in the times of Edward I, Owain Glyndwr, the Wars of the Roses, The Civil War etc. You can really feel 800 years of history under your feet. You just can't get that feeling from a text book or a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hallucinating Goose Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, DavidM said: Excellent . Places and buildings resonate and embody history . They form a huge part of informing us of history . It’s the nearest we get . Some places can’t escape it , you’re taken back through being there . Not just a building or an environment , they tell a story and losing them destroys what they’ve embodied and you lose part of your history . Rebuilding is brilliant , but it’s never the same Totally right when you say rebuilding isn't the same. I went to Caernarvon Castle a bit back and while it's an amazing building it didn't seem as impressive when I read that half of it is from a later period. I found Conwy much more incredible despite it being a ruin and similarly Beaumaris even though it was never actually finished. One place I would love to go is Rhodes, which I am planning on doing very soon. Very much want to see the grandmasters Palace because I love the history of the Knights hospitaller but again I don't feel as excited as I maybe should because a lot of it was rebuilt much later on. I would much rather see a ruin and feel the history of how that had happened than lose that piece of the buildings history due to it being taken away and renovated. As I said in my post, I went to devin Castle and Slovakia, which I would recommend to anyone and that's a ruin sitting on the banks of the danube. It is ruined because napoleon's forces blew it to pieces and you get that amazing feeling of those events which you wouldn't get if the holes punched in the walls by cannon balls weren't there or there wasn't random piles of masonry scattered about as towers had fallen down. You can read the story of the events by what you can see and have so much fun walking round and working out what had happened and imagining the scenes in your mind. Think of it this way. If you had a film but took away all the sets it would be empty and boring and you wouldn't get the complete experience of the story. History is a collection of stories and the buildings are the sets that make the story come alive. What's more incredible about these stories though and what makes you want to weep sometimes is the realisation that these stories actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 York Minster burned 35 years ago it was struck by lightning shortly after the controversial David Jenkins, Bishop of Durham preached there. Spooky! “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Trojan said: York Minster burned 35 years ago it was struck by lightning shortly after the controversial David Jenkins, Bishop of Durham preached there. Spooky! I know God is capricious, but why didn't He aim at Durham cathedral? Alternatively, He could just have a really bad aim. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, tim2 said: I know God is capricious, but why didn't He aim at Durham cathedral? Alternatively, He could just have a really bad aim. Also: slow. If you're going to smite, smite hard. At the person. Else we might just think it's weather. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, tim2 said: I know God is capricious, but why didn't He aim at Durham cathedral? Alternatively, He could just have a really bad aim. From where he is he probably only needed to be one degree out to hit York instead of Durham. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 hours ago, tim2 said: We went there a couple of years ago. We had a discussion about the three options - restoration, allowing it to crumble (the current option) or razing it to the ground. Opinion was fairly divided among the group between the latter two - nobody agreed with restoration in that case. What was more incongruous to me was the holding there of a truck rally. Churches and cathedrals have along history of catching fire - sometimes being completely destroyed. York had a very serious fire a few years ago. Even if we didn't intervene to keep them in good condition these kind of problems would still occur. I also appreciate the existence of old buildings - they save history from just being something you read about in books. I would say there are better, more attractive cathedrals in France, Chartre, Amiens and Rouen come to mind. I was not impressed by Reims. But they're perhaps not as historically significant as Notre Dame “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Trojan said: From where he is he probably only needed to be one degree out to hit York instead of Durham. He is Omnipresent so it was the equivalent of scoring an own goal from a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Notre Dame's great organ appears to have survived. Which is good because we all love mighty instruments. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 The Queen is ‘ deeply saddened ‘ . Her one emotion to bad things happening is to be ‘ deeply saddened ‘. She sends out the same statement over n over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: Notre Dame's great organ appears to have survived. Which is good because we all love mighty instruments. From tragedy to Carry On Notre Dame in under 24 hours. I salute you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrushersForever Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, DavidM said: The Queen is ‘ deeply saddened ‘ . Her one emotion to bad things happening is to be ‘ deeply saddened ‘. She sends out the same statement over n over She's just preparing the populace for what life will be like after she declares that Charles isn't fit to be monarch, and that she will instead be succeeded by RoboQueen 9000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henage Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Good time to be a French stonemason , Carpenter , plumber (lead work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 3 hours ago, tim2 said: I know God is capricious, but why didn't He aim at Durham cathedral? Alternatively, He could just have a really bad aim. Do we need to go over the momentum rule again? Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, henage said: Good time to be a French stonemason , Carpenter , plumber (lead work) Good time to be any one of those with a right to work in France ... Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, henage said: Good time to be a French stonemason , Carpenter , plumber (lead work) Yes , now like at the original build , these structures take immense numbers of workers and diverse skills and expertise . I recently watched How to Build a Cathedral on YouTube so I’m now fully clued up on the subject . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 Thankfully The Pope is praying for “all those who are striving to cope with this tragic situation”, so that does give me some reassurance that things will improve from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: Thankfully The Pope is praying for “all those who are striving to cope with this tragic situation”, so that does give me some reassurance that things will improve from now on. He is a good man...things will improve and a very, very expensive rebuild will commence. Donald Trump will probably try to get involved with his name on it someway though. A classic good vs. evil scenario between the two men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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