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Show some chutzpah and milk soccer’s hard work by using Rugby Premier League.

Whatever they use it MUST have “rugby” in the title. The sport’s name should really be in the title.

Edited by Copa
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39 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I would have no problem with a single kit supplier, or more centralised sponsorship. But I think there is a big issue not only around existing contracts but differing values. Leeds sell a hell of a lot more merchandise than Salford. Are we going to find a supplier willing to pay enough of a premium so that we don't simply see money moving from the big clubs to the smaller ones? That pie needs to grow an awful lot for the average to be close to the biggest are getting now which is what we would need to see get the bigger clubs to agree to it. That's in both sponsorship and kit deals. 

I think essentially any deal would revolve around a price to which all clubs pay for their kit/teamwear/replica etc. Clubs such as Leeds, Wigan, Catalan would probably purchase more than the likes of Salford, so any deal would have to be cost effective for the smaller clubs, which would be tough as many do currently partner with the much more smaller outfits, which you'd assume is down to price.

Any supplier would have to feel confident that they could sell enough kit/teamwear/replica product to the clubs to cover costs and make a bit of a profit (this alone won't be enough for some of the bigger brands). Currently clubs are our only real source of retail, so no real scope for any brand to sell outside those channels. 

A sport brand might however look to sell to some of the high street sportswear chains such as JD, Footasylum etc IF the game had a genuine strategy around growth that the brand could confidently get behind and help achieve. And if any deal was a pretty long one. 10 years for example (Puma have just signed a 10 year deal with Man City, a sign of commitment from both towards a common goal).

Certain clubs would initially only benefit from the above ie the bigger more successful clubs, but thats life i think. The best teams will always prosper the most.
It's a BIG ask for SL. But happy SL are thinking along these lines.


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2 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

I think essentially any deal would revolve around a price to which all clubs pay for their kit/teamwear/replica etc. Clubs such as Leeds, Wigan, Catalan would probably purchase more than the likes of Salford, so any deal would have to be cost effective for the smaller clubs, which would be tough as many do currently partner with the much more smaller outfits, which you'd assume is down to price.

Any supplier would have to feel confident that they could sell enough kit/teamwear/replica product to the clubs to cover costs and make a bit of a profit (this alone won't be enough for some of the bigger brands). Currently clubs are our only real source of retail, so no real scope for any brand to sell outside those channels. 

A sport brand might however look to sell to some of the high street sportswear chains such as JD, Footasylum etc IF the game had a genuine strategy around growth that the brand could confidently get behind and help achieve. And if any deal was a pretty long one. 10 years for example (Puma have just signed a 10 year deal with Man City, a sign of commitment from both towards a common goal).

Certain clubs would initially only benefit from the above ie the bigger more successful clubs, but thats life i think. The best teams will always prosper the most.
It's a BIG ask for SL. But happy SL are thinking along these lines.

the sportswear/fashion aspect is one ive picked up on before. The material and design of tops these days aren't what you would call flattering. They also aren't particularly nice to look at. I know leeds did it with a kind of retro jersey with Superdry, but I think there is a market out there/that can be built for a proper cotton style rugby shirt with a proper collar etc. 

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

the sportswear/fashion aspect is one ive picked up on before. The material and design of tops these days aren't what you would call flattering. They also aren't particularly nice to look at. I know leeds did it with a kind of retro jersey with Superdry, but I think there is a market out there/that can be built for a proper cotton style rugby shirt with a proper collar etc. 

Definitely, just needs the market to grow a bit, or to be a bit sensible about product ranges and launches. We currently have a very small consumer base.


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7 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

We need the brand and the sport to be easily and quickly identifiable. That means instantly distinguishable from other sports (especially RU). Soccer has claimed 'football' (at least in Europe) and union has claimed 'rugby' (unfortunately).

Some ideas: 

Name: Elite RL (ERL)

- Drop 'rugby league' from the official name, refer to it only as RL (compare with LG, BP,  BT, BMW etc.)

Unify brands across clubs, as suggested.

Play with a yellow/orange ball (like the snow ball used last year) 

Make the markings on the pitch distinctive.

- the modern game is all about dominating position and possession. It's important to know where play is taking place at all times. This is obviously not a problem at a live game, but with TV shots mainly focussing on a 10 square metre block, it's sometimes difficult to tell where you are on the pitch and how much progress a team has made.

- a suggestion:

The 20m zones in front of the try lines shaded red in some way (I think this was tried once?) and the 20m zone each side of the half-way line shaded another colour (yellow?). 

- A 40-20 would then need to be kicked from outside the yellow zone and find touch inside the red zone.

- Perhaps it could be achieved with lines parallel to the touch at 5m intervals? Not sure how easy this would be and it could cause problems for the soccer club tenants.

The main thing is that an of the pitch is instantly recognisable as an RL pitch. (cf soccer)

Some great suggestions there, WT. I hope this kind of thing was considered in the rebrand.

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I've always struggled with the concept of rebranding ever since Red Rose Radio in Preston spent a fortune replacing their red rose logo with ............ yes, a red rose logo!

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4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't think that Elstone is talking about an aggregate kit supply deal, Im not even sure that would be possible, Leeds deal with ISC runs until 2028. 

I think what he is talking about is decluttering the shirts that have been overtaken by sponsors, often numerous small local business paying a couple of grand for a small logo, and instead sell one or two central sponsorship deals at a premium.

Separately I think they  need to put some effort in to the name and logo, I personally, as I have suggested before, would go for Rugby's Super League or The Rugby Super League, but its not the main issue. 

As elstone said Nomad did a lot of work around a pre-match standard that that has created a "look" around the what happens pre-game etc, and that is a big issue for us to solve. 

 

Hopefully it means decluttering the shorts too.... as in sponsors on the backside... chuckle

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Any mention up to now of changing the trophies as well? Obviously the hubcap is bobbins but the SL trophy is very 90s IMO. It lacks the class of older trophies whilst simultaneously managing to not look like a modern alternative.

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17 hours ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Well it has to happen if we are having a whole new fresh approach to how SL is run.   Hopefully attracting the likes of Deloitte will become the norm, rather than more cringeworthy splashing of Bachelors Cheesy-Peas across our screens every season 😊

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5 hours ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I used to feel (strongly) this way, but since we’ve dwindled away as a sport in the public eye over the last twenty years for whatever reasons, I think we should actually focus on the singular RUGBY term as a way to generate interest.

Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion? What are the benefits of being bundled in the 'rugby' group?

I would say being subservient to a now much bigger sport isn't a way to grow our own sport. Waiting for crumbs from their table.

Where is our new market in the UK? Who is our target group? 

I would say RU fans are already aware of RL and are unlikely to be converted in large numbers. General sports fans are more likely to come across RU than RL. If they like it they'll become fans. If they don't like it, for whatever reason, they're unlikely to investigate another sport which seems indistinguishable to the uninitiated and on face value to be the same game. We need to be clearly a different game in order to get a second look. 

The lower visibility of the sport nationally is probably down to reduced FTA broadcast of games and highlights. 

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24 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Interesting. How did you come to that conclusion? What are the benefits of being bundled in the 'rugby' group?

I would say being subservient to a now much bigger sport isn't a way to grow our own sport. Waiting for crumbs from their table.

Where is our new market in the UK? Who is our target group? 

I would say RU fans are already aware of RL and are unlikely to be converted in large numbers. General sports fans are more likely to come across RU than RL. If they like it they'll become fans. If they don't like it, for whatever reason, they're unlikely to investigate another sport which seems indistinguishable to the uninitiated and on face value to be the same game. We need to be clearly a different game in order to get a second look. 

The lower visibility of the sport nationally is probably down to reduced FTA broadcast of games and highlights. 

I think that's an outlook that has all the cuts and scrapes and scars of RL built in to it. 

Most people don't care. This battle between RL and RU is an irrelevance. The don't know or care which is bigger or better or more popular or this or that or whatever. Frankly they don't really care that they different games. 

There is no question of subservience or anything like that, there is no question of conversion. This competitive-outlook is kind of an internal issue. 

A huge problem we have is that the game has spent a huge portion of its life defining itself as 'not Rugby Union'. Not only does that immediately give primacy to RU, it stops us defining ourselves by ourselves. As 'up' is only defined as opposite of down, we are only defined as not RU. That's not good for us. Ask many casuals and people from not heartland areas what the first thing they think of RL is and its none of the traditions or stereotypes we are worried about. Its generally who we are in relation to RU. 

We get passed that not by running away from 'Rugby' but embracing it. Forget 13 instead of 15, forget no line-outs or boring scrums blah blah blah. People wont come and see us because aren't RU. People will come see The Rugby Super League. A vibrant confident transnational league of the biggest and best clubs playing the highest standard of Rugby in the northern hemisphere in modern stadia. 

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16 hours ago, Damien said:

which sadly didn't happen due to clubs already being in deals

This is probably the biggest stumbling block. There are clubs that can strike their own deals that would probably be better, to them, than any aggregated deal. Leeds are only 18 months into a ten-year agreement with ISC. 

 

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10 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

We need the brand and the sport to be easily and quickly identifiable. That means instantly distinguishable from other sports (especially RU). Soccer has claimed 'football' (at least in Europe) and union has claimed 'rugby' (unfortunately).

Some ideas: 

Name: Elite RL (ERL)

- Drop 'rugby league' from the official name, refer to it only as RL (compare with LG, BP,  BT, BMW etc.)

Unify brands across clubs, as suggested.

Play with a yellow/orange ball (like the snow ball used last year) 

Make the markings on the pitch distinctive.

- the modern game is all about dominating position and possession. It's important to know where play is taking place at all times. This is obviously not a problem at a live game, but with TV shots mainly focussing on a 10 square metre block, it's sometimes difficult to tell where you are on the pitch and how much progress a team has made.

- a suggestion:

The 20m zones in front of the try lines shaded red in some way (I think this was tried once?) and the 20m zone each side of the half-way line shaded another colour (yellow?). 

- A 40-20 would then need to be kicked from outside the yellow zone and find touch inside the red zone.

- Perhaps it could be achieved with lines parallel to the touch at 5m intervals? Not sure how easy this would be and it could cause problems for the soccer club tenants.

The main thing is that an of the pitch is instantly recognisable as an RL pitch. (cf soccer)

The different stadiums used on England come with different length fields, how are you going to make those consistent field markings fit them all?

Edited by Big Picture

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4 hours ago, CmonTheBorough said:

I've always struggled with the concept of rebranding ever since Red Rose Radio in Preston spent a fortune replacing their red rose logo with ............ yes, a red rose logo!

Idiots. They should have used a white rose logo.

Edited by deluded pom?
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7 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I don't think that Elstone is talking about an aggregate kit supply deal, Im not even sure that would be possible, Leeds deal with ISC runs until 2028. 

I think what he is talking about is decluttering the shirts that have been overtaken by sponsors, often numerous small local business paying a couple of grand for a small logo, and instead sell one or two central sponsorship deals at a premium.

Separately I think they  need to put some effort in to the name and logo, I personally, as I have suggested before, would go for Rugby's Super League or The Rugby Super League, but its not the main issue. 

As elstone said Nomad did a lot of work around a pre-match standard that that has created a "look" around the what happens pre-game etc, and that is a big issue for us to solve. 

 

Yeah, alot of pie in the sky stuff about getting some sort of NFL deal with Nike.

I understand about the kit decluttering. But in all honesty there are not many sports that survive with only one or two shirt sponsors. We are not even that bad compared to stuff like European Basketball, Ice Hockey and Handball leagues.

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2 hours ago, Moove said:

Any mention up to now of changing the trophies as well? Obviously the hubcap is bobbins but the SL trophy is very 90s IMO. It lacks the class of older trophies whilst simultaneously managing to not look like a modern alternative.

Its not that bad and is now recognisable, the Premier League trophy is just as bad but I doubt they are changing it anytime soon.

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Elstone makes the admission that he didn’t realise the Wigan Catalans Nou Camp game would be such a media big deal.

He was decidedly against the Toronto project until he went

Wasnt happy with the Catalans in SL until he went to see Bernard and only then did he support Toulouse in SL.

He has engaged the same people as the Soccer lot to help rebrand

Utilising a 2 day workshop - which isnt at all creative its a place to propound an idea and ram it down someone else’s throat - or throats as there are 12 clubs

He has spent significant amounts of time with NRL board officials when he has managed to get anywhere near them - monopolising their time - and early doors stated how he liked the national approach to the branding in the NRL as aspirational for both them and us.

He talks about centralising merch - the NRL and most successful leagues do this as its a no brainier - in the NRL 24% off all merch should is NZ Warriors merch - all into the common pot to dish out equally!

What do i get from all this?

Welcome to a new connected world of RL - -NRL EU or northern hemisphere - Toronto are the new merch and tv market a la NZ warriors - so many parallels its almost like its planned - Toronto merch sales will be a deal maker or breaker for their membership - as will Catalans and anyone else with a sizeable  merch market outside the M62

TV deals will be looked at now and in future  - Elstone is very much a Sky teddy bear and if it doesnt fit with Sky it will be rejected hence all that guff about ring fencing the SL and limiting expansion clubs to preserve ‘value’ - he has either yet again jumped the line with this - not realising his mistake until proven otherwise - or has had a word already - if Sky dont have a steer on any new deals or at least some sort of reciprocal rights in various territories it wont happen - self limiting and damaging to the financial development of the sport IMHO - smacks of desperation and a man that is trying to appear successful by maintaining a status quo that simply isnt there

He cant get a grasp on a market that doesnt stand still and if we are throwing all our eggs into the sky/Elstone basket we take the lowest common denominator - whoever publicly stated daft figures like £35 million or £40 million needs locking up - Sky will be sat waiting for RL to hold out the begging bowl - why not? Its their money.

The England RL shirt is a virtual NRL shirt with the Hummel design on it 

The thing is some buy in and expertise from the right people in the NRL would be most welcome, a rebrand for the global game and a statement of intent would be magnificent - an independent governing body for the sport globally with real teeth and the power to negotiate for a global brand would work wonders for this sport - I just dont see Elstone as the man that can deliver that with the sort of comments and actions he is coming out with

The RLWC has been commissioned and produced by a team that has been set up and exceeded to date all my expectations - fantastic professional results in the media, business sponsorships you name it

Its got ###### all to do with Elstone and his SL team - he seems to have taken the RFL team that promoted the internationals last year so well and they have been largely silent - so he now promotes and compliments the wolves for their efforts - where are his?

Watch out for a NRL type comp near you - hopefully with that much needed expansion central to its ‘new’ and ‘youthful’ look because with the best will in the world tarting up Weldon Road or Belle Vue isnt going to cut it in todays business world.

Make no mistake, getting a new look for the sport is a start but for 2020?

That is 10 months away until that season starts in Feb 2020 - or 9 if its January.

With that in mind its breakaway time, all teams already in stay - chickens dont vote for Sunday roasts - rest from outside SL - 16 teams NRL style play offs same rules etc pick you 4 teams that bring ‘value’ - promotion and relegation remains but with ‘other criteria’ to be applied - back to the 2000’s we go!

Is that necessarily a bad thing? Not sure but if I was the RFL, as they seem to be doing, pushing expansion to make the other leagues viable is very much high on the agenda and potentially quite a threat to SL in the long run - again with the best will in the world Cas on a Thursday night or w weekend following Fev in NYC - interesting eh?

Can I have that pay check now?

 

Edited by Kris

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9 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The different stadiums used on England come with different length fields, how are you going to make those consistent field markings fit them all?

The lines and zones I mentioned, 10m from half-way and 20m from try line, are identical on all pitches, even cas.

The gap between these zones, the width and the in-goal may vary, but they would still look distinctively similar, which is the point. 

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2 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

The lines and zones I mentioned, 10m from half-way and 20m from try line, are identical on all pitches, even cas.

The gap between these zones, the width and the in-goal may vary, but they would still look distinctively similar, which is the point. 

WT, some good ideas in your previous post.

I like the idea of the red/yellow coloured surfaces but I can see a potential issue with this.  Wigan, Huddersfield and Hull have shared stadiums with football so is it possible to colour the surfaces and have them returned to green for football games?

 

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54 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

WT, some good ideas in your previous post.

I like the idea of the red/yellow coloured surfaces but I can see a potential issue with this.  Wigan, Huddersfield and Hull have shared stadiums with football so is it possible to colour the surfaces and have them returned to green for football games?

 

tbf I did mention this potential problem:

Quote

- Perhaps it could be achieved with lines parallel to the touch at 5m intervals? Not sure how easy this would be and it could cause problems for the soccer club tenants.

😉 Maybe only clubs who own their grounds like Cas & Wakey should be allowed in SL?  😉

As I say, I'm not sure of the practicalities of these markings, but surely they can be jet-washed off between games if necessary. The markings used at such as Wigan, Hull & Huddersfield are absolutely minimal and this is one of many limitations they've experienced e.g. fixture grouping, late postponements. We don't even have numbers for metre lines as prescribed like in the NRL which make it look more distinctive. Once again kowtowing to bigger sports.

img-0df762221f98b7db42ec452bae34c954.jpg

300px-NRL_Rugby_League_field.svg.png

 

 

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15 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

We need to be clearly a different game in order to get a second look. 

From top to bottom.


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I love having the Numbers on the lines it really makes our pitches look distinct in the UK market. I don't know why we stopped doing that to be honest.

Equally all clubs should have to make the 40m line red (and white) so it is distinct.

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39 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Something like this:

image.png.16c5e14f06bac376fc9f6a5aa2a2ecd5.png

 
   
 
   

while i can see the merits of it with shared pitches for different sports there is no way this can happen IMHO

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