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Shadow

40 years ago this week

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Arguably one of the twentieth century's pivotal figures became Prme Minister. 

Wherever you sit on the political spectrum it's difficult to imagine any of the current crop of MPs having her success or showing the same determination or her putting up with the sort of our current parliamentarians get away with on a daily basis. 

Image result for margaret thatcher spitting image election victory

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A vile old bag who sacrificed non-Tory areas to keep herself in power.  Many areas still haven't recovered.

But... she was a proper conviction politician who achieved one hell of a lot, including on a worldwide scale with her relationship with the US and Reagan.

She had the same "my way or get out-of-the way" attitude that Blair had and utter intolerance for anyone ignoring collective responsibility.

I don't know a single person in either front bench who would get a seat in her Cabinet.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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2 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

She was O.K was Mrs T, she had her faults but did this country a power of good. Need somebody of her standing right now to sort out the current lot's deficiencies.

For once I agree with you; if she were still in charge there'rd have been no brexit, not even a sniff of it.

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"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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5 minutes ago, Griff9of13 said:

For once I agree with you; if she were still in charge there'rd have been no brexit, not even a sniff of it.

Interested why you think that ?

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9 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Interested why you think that ?

Because she was massively in favour of British membership of the EU, recognising the power it gave us in Europe and the opportunities it created for British business.

It's the cargo cult Thatcherites who just look at her flag waving and think she'd be against it because they are.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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13 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Interested why you think that ?

She was the driving force behind EU integration.  The headline Maastrict Treaty of 1992 was planned, built and all the detail done during her charge, she bullied the EU into many of its core aspects around changing the EEC into the EU.

When she left power, her primary gripe was with Major and his handling of the ERM debacle, she then realised she got lots of fluffy love from criticising the EU so that's how she went from 1992 onwards.

People think her getting that EEC rebate was a sign of her being a Eurosceptic, when in fact it was the opposite, she worked from within to get the best deal for the UK within Europe.  She'd have been appalled at the thought of the EU without the UK.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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12 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Interested why you think that ?

 

8 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

That's debatable! 

What GJ says.

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Because she was massively in favour of British membership of the EU, recognising the power it gave us in Europe and the opportunities it created for British business.

It's the cargo cult Thatcherites who just look at her flag waving and think she'd be against it because they are.

You are aware that she was the architect of the Single Market aren't you? :kolobok_unsure:


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Because she was massively in favour of British membership of the EU, recognising the power it gave us in Europe and the opportunities it created for British business.

It's the cargo cult Thatcherites who just look at her flag waving and think she'd be against it because they are.

Yeh as people like Ken Clarke have said there is revisionism there from many tories , but I’m wondering if this issue became so all consuming and toxic for the party , regardless of leader , that for party management sake where we got to was inevitable . It eroded everything and everyone as time passed . However strong , however her beliefs it just infiltrated and infected the Tory body . Cameron thought similar but he knew it needed lancing ... he had a cunning plan  and look how that went . And would her negotiations with Europe and how she alienated them have avoided that 

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2 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Yeh as people like Ken Clarke have said there is revisionism there from many tories , but I’m wondering if this issue became so all consuming and toxic for the party , regardless of leader , that for party management sake where we got to was inevitable . It eroded everything and everyone as time passed . However strong , however her beliefs it just infiltrated and infected the Tory body . Cameron thought similar but he knew it needed lancing ... and look how that went 

Obviously I don't know but I think the patriot-signalling wing of the Tories could go along with Thatcher's europhilia because it came as part of flag-waving package of beating the Argies, the Special Relationship (again, not as 'solid' as it looked), lust for profit and social conservatism.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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As she's dead, she's not around to tell us what she thinks about Brexit.

Is there any chance this thread can be kept to what she did and said while she was alive?


.

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She believed in climate change, so that probably rules her out of being a tier 1 brexiter.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

As she's dead, she's not around to tell us what she thinks about Brexit.

Is there any chance this thread can be kept to what she did and said while she was alive?

What if she was a white walker ? Very scary 

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1 minute ago, DavidM said:

What if she was a white walker ? Very scary 

Not Today. ⚔️

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1 hour ago, Shadow said:

Arguably one of the twentieth century's pivotal figures became Prme Minister. 

Wherever you sit on the political spectrum it's difficult to imagine any of the current crop of MPs having her success or showing the same determination or her putting up with the sort of our current parliamentarians get away with on a daily basis. 

Image result for margaret thatcher spitting image election victory

The 1979 General Election was the first one I remember quite vividly.

I was 13 at the time.

It seemed a very big deal, and turned out to be.

Everything changed from that point onwards.

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Can't help feeling she was naively sucked in to the American Dream of ultra-capitalism though...   "Anyone can be rich and successful if they work hard enough".   Anyone can, but not everyone.   The amount of money in the world is finite, and if you let greed go unregulated you end up with the polarised and corrupt society we see now.   Eventually there'll be a few hundred trillionaires, but billions of poor people, which will lead to a fundamentalist fightback and a big war and so begins the cycle again...

On a more cheerful note, she saved all that coal for the future.   And since the environment is apparently ay-okay with global warming we can start burning it again 😊

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41 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The 1979 General Election was the first one I remember quite vividly.

I was 13 at the time.

It seemed a very big deal, and turned out to be.

Everything changed from that point onwards.

I was 16, I vaguely remember the to and from politics between Heath and Wilson where both sides were constantly undermined by both inept management and confrontational unions in Industry, both seemingly political giants compared to the lightweights around now.

I read Norman Tebbit's autbiography, it was fascinating and whilst I cannot pretend to like the man at all he certainly has my immense respect for what he achieved and suffered. I think one of the highlights was his recounting a conversation with Mrs T where the gist was that their legacy should be a middle of the road electable Labour party as if a radical left wing party got in then all that would happen is they would undo everything the Tories had done and then in 4 years time back would come the conservatives to undo the work Labour had done whereas by having two main centrist parties that differ in inclination not fundamental philosophies the country had a chance to prosper. This was written before New Labour existed so it's not Tebbit claiming Blair as one of their own but shows, in my view, a remarkable pragmatism and prescience that our current political pygmies cannot hope to come close to.

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I know both were of their time but how we could do with satire that the likes of Spitting Image & The New Statesman brought to bear every week, now everything is so sanitised and 'PC' that ridicule is virtually invisible, imagine what they would have made of Grayling, Dense-Fogg, Johnson, Corbyn, Brexit & Trump, it's a golden age of pomposity just waiting to be pricked and made ridicule of.😎

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36 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

I know both were of their time but how we could do with satire that the likes of Spitting Image & The New Statesman brought to bear every week, now everything is so sanitised and 'PC' that ridicule is virtually invisible, imagine what they would have made of Grayling, Dense-Fogg, Johnson, Corbyn, Brexit & Trump, it's a golden age of pomposity just waiting to be pricked and made ridicule of.😎

Unfortunately, the state of our politicians is way beyond satire.  They're doing things that simply would be classed as too ridiculous for comedy even 15 years ago.  Still, there is some scope out there:

The Johnson Family. A spoof of the Brady Bunch.

Little Moggland, a local party for local people. Especially with Moggie's sister in the Brexit Party.

Andy Serkis's version of Theresa May is too scarily accurate but there must be something that can be done.  Maybe something around the Wizard of Oz?  Theresa May as the wicked witch?  Or Dorothy? David Davis as the scarecrow? Boris as cowardly lion? Hammond as the tin man? Nigel Dodds (DUP) as Toto?

Citizen Corbyn. An aged Wolfie Smith renamed to Jezza...

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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In 1986 Swindon Railway Works closed. This changed the town forever. I was the first generation of my family not to work "inside".

Swindon went from being a mainly industrial, working class town to the fastest growing town in Europe to mainly, an office based, middle class town with, pretty much, full employment. 

She is blamed for both the "destruction" of town, as it was, and the growth of the town, as it is. 

However, I also understand Swindon has the "advantage", over the northern mining towns, of being just 70 miles/1 hour from London. 

Edited by Wiltshire Rhino
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2014 Challenged Cup Winner

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

Unfortunately, the state of our politicians is way beyond satire.  They're doing things that simply would be classed as too ridiculous for comedy even 15 years ago.  Still, there is some scope out there:

The Johnson Family. A spoof of the Brady Bunch.

Little Moggland, a local party for local people. Especially with Moggie's sister in the Brexit Party.

Andy Serkis's version of Theresa May is too scarily accurate but there must be something that can be done.  Maybe something around the Wizard of Oz?  Theresa May as the wicked witch?  Or Dorothy? David Davis as the scarecrow? Boris as cowardly lion? Hammond as the tin man? Nigel Dodds (DUP) as Toto?

Citizen Corbyn. An aged Wolfie Smith renamed to Jezza...

There is unlimited Mogg and family material .... Sunday lunch discussions over roast pheasant with all the mini Moggs in matching formalwear ...

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34 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

In 1986 Swindon Railway Works closed. This changed the town forever. I was the first generation of my family not to work "inside".

Swindon went from being a mainly industrial, working class town to the fastest growing town in Europe to mainly, an office based, middle class town with, pretty much, full employment. 

She is blamed for both the "destruction" of town, as it was, and the growth of the town, as it is. 

However, I also understand Swindon has the "advantage", over the northern mining towns, of being just 70 miles/1 hour from London. 

When I got into my teens I was living in Fife in Scotland, those not going to university had three real choices:

1. Go work in the pits
2. Go work at Rosyth dockyard (outstanding apprenticeships for everyone from those with a bit of nouse to those happy to do skilled manual labour)
3. Join the military

That was it really if you wanted to do something.  1 and 2 quickly ended with the pits closing and dockyard apprentices in my area being let go quite quickly as work was diverted to Tory friendly areas. I did 3.

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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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19 minutes ago, ckn said:

When I got into my teens I was living in Fife in Scotland, those not going to university had three real choices:

1. Go work in the pits
2. Go work at Rosyth dockyard (outstanding apprenticeships for everyone from those with a bit of nouse to those happy to do skilled manual labour)
3. Join the military

That was it really if you wanted to do something.  1 and 2 quickly ended with the pits closing and dockyard apprentices in my area being let go quite quickly as work was diverted to Tory friendly areas. I did 3.

Similar up here ... steel works , pit down the road gave  work and apprenticeships to thousands after school 

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