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JohnM

Govt bail out of failed company.

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Should the government bail out failed mockney Oliver or should the money come from his estimated wealth of £250 million?


Four legs good - two legs bad

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There is a difference between companies like Oliver’s and, say British steel. There are hundreds of different restaurant chains  but there are few manufacturing businesses in the UK. 

So no, they shouldn’t rescue Oliver’s restaurants, but the should rescue British Steel. 

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26 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Should the government bail out failed mockney Oliver or should the money come from his estimated wealth of £250 million?

His estimated wealth will include a now defunct restaurant chain.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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I think he might still have a few quid salted away.


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13 minutes ago, JohnM said:

I think he might still have a few quid salted away.

Oh I'm sure he won't be on the streets soon, but by all accounts he put about £20 million into the company in the last year.  


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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8 hours ago, RidingPie said:

There is a difference between companies like Oliver’s and, say British steel. There are hundreds of different restaurant chains  but there are few manufacturing businesses in the UK. 

So no, they shouldn’t rescue Oliver’s restaurants, but the should rescue British Steel. 

Maybe the Blessed  St. Oliver could use his commercial acumen in bailing them out. 


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53 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Maybe the Blessed  St. Oliver could use his commercial acumen in bailing them out. 

Well he can’t have much less acumen than the current govt. 

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11 hours ago, JohnM said:

Should the government bail out failed mockney Oliver or should the money come from his estimated wealth of £250 million?

Apparently many of these famous ppl don't have as much cash on the hip as i think they do. Granted some will have cash in off shore bank accounts. But no, they shouldn't give Oliver any money, IMO they should give British Steel money either. 

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11 hours ago, JohnM said:

Should the government bail out failed mockney Oliver or should the money come from his estimated wealth of £250 million?

No, they shouldn’t bail Oliver out.

But I hope the apprentices and staff are able to find decent work. That’s not exactly easy right now.

And please don’t post the “one hour a week means you’re working” employment figures. They’re meaningless.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I don't think Oliver should be bailed out.  I do think British Steel at Scunthorpe should be bailed out. Steel production is a strategic necessity IMO.  Plus of course if the plant closed it would kill Scunthorpe.  Basically there's nothing there apart from the steel plant and the businesses that rely on it.   And it would have a knock on effect to Immingham and Killingholme.  It would devastate the whole of North East Lincolnshire.   When I was working I was a regular visitor to the plant.  Apart from British Steel (TATA in my day)  there are countless other companies within the site who provide various services,


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No, they shouldn’t bail Oliver out.

But I hope the apprentices and staff are able to find decent work. That’s not exactly easy right now.

And please don’t post the “one hour a week means you’re working” employment figures. They’re meaningless.

How can anything defined and measured by EU authority possibly been meaningless.


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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

No, they shouldn’t bail Oliver out.

But I hope the apprentices and staff are able to find decent work. That’s not exactly easy right now.

And please don’t post the “one hour a week means you’re working” employment figures. They’re meaningless.

I am sure there are a few Deliveroo / DPD jobs going around Scunthorpe.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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9 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I am sure there are a few Deliveroo / DPD jobs going around Scunthorpe.

4,500 people can take turns delivering each other Amazon packages.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Rather than a "bail out" surely I am right in thinking that if 75%+ of rails for the railways are manufactured by British Steel and if HS2 is being bankrolled by the state then either British Steel going under will mean more expensive rials or imported rails taking money out of the economy. Therefore wouldnt it have made sense (and not be govt aid) to instead of negotiated an upfront payment for the rails with British Steel which would have overcome the cash flow difficulty and kept the govt money for HS2 inside this country and our economy.

Yes there would have been a risk of the company still going under before producing the rails but if this was truly a cash flow issue for an otherwise profitable company it seems like a no brainer from an economics point of view

Edited by SSoutherner

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

I am sure there are a few Deliveroo / DPD jobs going around Scunthorpe.

Nothing wrong with working "poor" jobs while looking for work. I've been made redundant 3 times (once voluntary) and I've never been without work. Some of those jobs/work have been #### jobs/work that I needed to do while looking for a better job. 

Edited by Wiltshire Rhino
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2014 Challenged Cup Winner

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2 minutes ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Nothing wrong with working "poor" jobs while looking for work. I've been made redundant 3 times (once voluntary) and I've never been without work. Some of those jobs/work have been #### jobs/work that I needed to do while looking for a better job. 

Who'll be able to afford Deliveroo n Scunthorpe after this blow?   Perhaps the entire economy of the country could be based on us all cutting one another's hair and such like jobs.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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Always amazed at some people's lack of empathy for other people in dire need. 

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3 hours ago, Shadow said:

Is it worth reminding people that it was the UK Government that blocked EU protection of the Steel Industry from Chinese suppliers?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tata-steel-uk-government-accused-of-failing-to-protect-british-workers-by-blocking-eu-plans-to-allow-a6962446.html

Hmmm. Wonder which the 14 other countries  were and why they took the line they did. 


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2 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Rather than a "bail out" surely I am right in thinking that if 75%+ of rails for the railways are manufactured by British Steel and if HS2 is being bankrolled by the state then either British Steel going under will mean more expensive rials or imported rails taking money out of the economy. Therefore wouldnt it have made sense (and not be govt aid) to instead of negotiated an upfront payment for the rails with British Steel which would have overcome the cash flow difficulty and kept the govt money for HS2 inside this country and our economy.

Yes there would have been a risk of the company still going under before producing the rails but if this was truly a cash flow issue for an otherwise profitable company it seems like a no brainer from an economics point of view

The company is still operational. 


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4 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The company is still operational. 

Probably not for much longer ...

Greybull, the private equity group who bought British Steel for a quid, have a bit of a track record. Monarch and Comet both went bust on their watch.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The company is still operational. 

Yes but the phrase used is Compulsory liquidation not administration so it will be being split up etc not likely sold as a going concern - whichever, the additional costs of EY are not helping anyone and bringing forward the payment for specialist rails for HS2 would surely have been a sensible option to at least consider (it may have been but i have seen no comment in the press) it does mention immediate payment but not payment up front

 

From BBC article

"The company was transferred to the Official Receiver because British Steel, its shareholders and the government were not able to, or would not, support the business. That meant the company did not have to funds to pay for an administration."

NEW QUOTE

One of British Steel's biggest customers is Network Rail, 95% - about 100,000, tonnes - of whose rails are supplied by British Steel's Scunthorpe plant.

In a statement, the rail infrastructure operator said it had been working closely with British Steel and government for "many weeks".

"We have done what we can to help ease the company's financial difficulties. We have improved our order book with the company - increasing rail production volumes, bringing orders forward and committing to a long term schedule - as well as offering immediate payment to ease the pressure on cash flow.

Edited by SSoutherner

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1 hour ago, Wiltshire Rhino said:

Nothing wrong with working "poor" jobs while looking for work. I've been made redundant 3 times (once voluntary) and I've never been without work. Some of those jobs/work have been #### jobs/work that I needed to do while looking for a better job. 

Indeed, but you wouldn't want to base the entire economy of a town the size of Scunthorpe on it.


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

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Actually i think the thing people forget is like Miners, steel workers are paid VERY well for the area they are in, it is incredibly unlikely the majority will walk into similar paid work and if they are paid less then that is less money in the local area, less for service industries, less for the milkman/newspaper shop/window cleaner/pub/rugby club bar - when doing the sums on whether to support a company/industry the extra costs of supporting the local economy in the absence of that business need to be factored in.

Also remember if they do go completely then the govt will be paying out the redundancies and also picking up the pensions tab, both of those will be BIG bills. I have been through the company administration process form the side of meetings with administrators to discuss exactly what will and wont be covered etc and the fact that they get 1st dibs on the money from assets - the only people who will come out of this better off are EY

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