A petition to the Rugby Football League.

[rod reddy]

http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=205734

[Bomb Jack]

Whether i agree or not you've seriously not got a cat in hell's chance of anything coming from this.

[Padge]

You forgot to add, eradicate all disease, make all the poor rich, give every child a puppy dog and a never ending supply of sweets and make the sun shine every day brightly with a smiling face.

What a complete waste of time.

[gingerjon]

You forgot to add, eradicate all disease, make all the poor rich, give every child a puppy dog and a never ending supply of sweets and make the sun shine every day brightly with a smiling face.

So, you have read the Lib Dem manifesto!

For children who dislike puppies kittens will be provided.

[RP London]

issues for me:

1 i dont think it would make any difference

2 the actual wording of it and tone is off IMHO: eg:

No other sport with a2-3 teir league system has it.. the NRL do, do they have a 2-3 teir system... arguably yes there are other clubs below the NRL who are there and playing in league below and they can apply when franchises and liscences are up for grabs.. Northern Irish Football has a system where there is a mix of liscencing and P&R similar to what we have but working slightly diffrently.. those are 2 off the top ofmy head. Not only that but the RFL can happily turn around and say 1. the aim is to have a larger franchised super league including most of the other teirs but it is a gradua process, would you rather wait 5 years for when your club us ready to step up or step up now and go bust? they have a long term plan the wording is very short term. 2. they dont care if no one esle does it, when the first sport in america had conferences did people say, you cant do that no one else does.. maybe but they were proved wrong it does work there.. just becuase it doesnt work in any other sport doesnt mean it wont work here for this sport.

there is not only one way to bring people back to the game.. for the last god knows how long there has been p&r ad the crowds have not been flocking to the grounds so why would bringing it back now suddenly see 3-4000 come through the doors.. its a non argument.. there are many ways to bring them back and that is needed to be done..

The crowds falling away due to liscencing.. the crowds hae been falling away a that level for years.. liscencing is not the issue apathy is and that was there before this all happened.

3. even if i agreed with your points on liscencing your 2nd point IMHO is daft.. the game has to expand, they have got it wrong int he past but as long as they learn from this then this is a good thing and expansion is important for the good of the clubs in the M62 corridor as well..

4. i dont actually agree with either of the points and the arguments IMO have too many holes in them.

its a non starter for mine.

Edited July 20, 2010 by RP London

[ckn]

1. For what it's worth, I'd like to see a return to P&R. That's an idealist "like" though as the difference between SL and Championship (or NL in the P&R days) sides is far too high, it was in P&R days and it would be again if brought back in. Every year in P&R you'd see the relegated sides releasing their Aussies and good players who would almost automatically go to the promoted sides meaning the club names changed but many of the players didn't. Until you get far more money into the Championship and raise the salary cap to a level that allows a full squad of full-time players then you've no hope of P&R working properly. That brings me nicely to your point 2:

(split into two parts)

2a. Without Sky money, rugby league would collapse as a professional sport. Yes, we get Sport England money now but that's generally meant for almost everything bar the professional club part of the game. Unfortunately, that situation means that we have to dance a little to the paymaster's tune. I have sent a nice letter to ESPN asking them to consider bidding for rugby league, they have taken rugby union's Premiership this year and I made it clear that it wouldn't cost them anywhere near that amount to get a sport away from Sky that has significantly better BARB figures week-in, week-out. Even if they didn't get it, the bidding process would almost by necessity force Sky to pay more money to beat the competition; Sky get by far the best of the deal from rugby league, all it needs is a bit of competition to make them see this.

2b. You've obviously not been out of the M62 "heartlands" very often then in the last decade. When I first moved down to the south east of England, there were no rugby league clubs. Go to the RFL's club finder and type in London (as a good centre for the map) and change the number of results to 100, you'll see all the blue tags showing clubs that weren't there 20 years ago, change the number of clubs to see wider lists of new clubs. Don't forget that that club finder doesn't show the true picture, it doesn't show where clubs have gone from struggling to put out 13, never mind subs, to putting out multiple adult sides and youth sides. Are those who play outside the M62 heartlands not "true supporters"? To my mind these hard-working "missionaries" who have gone on to found successful small clubs outside of the heartlands have more right to the title "true supporter" than someone who is happy to abandon them in a consolidation on the heartlands.

Your petition post is a bit misleading as point 1 says that rugby league is mistreating those below SL but then you're happy to pull up the ladder with point 2 all bar abandoning the huge progress outside of the M62 heartlands. Alternatively, should your petition simply read "Dear RFL, please re-arrange things so that a few small northern clubs can get a better chance at SL and screw everyone else."

[Trojan]

2b. You've obviously not been out of the M62 "heartlands" very often then in the last decade. When I first moved down to the south east of England, there were no rugby league clubs.

You must have lived in the South a long time Craig, Fulham/Crusaders/Broncos/Harelquins are 30 years old next month. I recall a London amateur RL side playing a friendly at Belle Vue in 1969.

[Futtocks]

Are those who play outside the M62 heartlands not "true supporters"? To my mind these hard-working "missionaries" who have gone on to found successful small clubs outside of the heartlands have more right to the title "true supporter" than someone who is happy to abandon them in a consolidation on the heartlands.

Unfortunately, that's not an uncommon mindset. There are those who think that only born-and-bred Northerners deserve Rugby League and that nobody else can possibly be a 'true' fan or hold a valid opinion on the sport.

The whole wording of this petition could not be better designed to be ignored by the RFL. It comes across as paranoid, backward-looking and entirely negative.

[ckn]

You must have lived in the South a long time Craig, Fulham/Crusaders/Broncos/Harelquins are 30 years old next month. I recall a London amateur RL side playing a friendly at Belle Vue in 1969.

I was a bit rushed! I didn't intend it to be taken as black/white coverage of everywhere outside of the M62 corridor

To be more precise, I moved to Colchester in the early 90s with the army and did a good bit of hunting around to see if I could find a rugby league club in close range, I couldn't find one. Within a few years I noticed Ipswich but by then my injuries were getting the better of me and playing rugby bar the few invitational games was out. Since then, I've noticed clubs sprouting up all over. From where I live now, I can get to a rugby league game most weekends during the summer without too much effort, 10 years ago, I'd have had to have a pain of a journey into the wilds of London.

Edit: added 90s after early. Too rushed while trying to do 3 things at once!

[RP London]

I was a bit rushed! I didn't intend it to be taken as black/white coverage of everywhere outside of the M62 corridor

To be more precise, I moved to Colchester in the early with the army and did a good bit of hunting around to see if I could find a rugby league club in close range, I couldn't find one. Within a few years I noticed Ipswich but by then my injuries were getting the better of me and playing rugby bar the few invitational games was out. Since then, I've noticed clubs sprouting up all over. From where I live now, I can get to a rugby league game most weekends during the summer without too much effort, 10 years ago, I'd have had to have a pain of a journey into the wilds of London.

jesus i didnt realise how close to the truth futtocks was.. you were a northerner going down south and your first thought was.. right i have the arsenal ofthe british army at my disposal now i'll teach those southerners who think they can start up clubs in the south a lesson... where are they? are they in range? fire!!!!

[Whacky Llama]

The only problem I have with franchising is since the RFL introduced them we have had endless message board forums full of the same arguments week after week.

[ckn]

jesus i didnt realise how close to the truth futtocks was.. you were a northerner going down south and your first thought was.. right i have the arsenal ofthe british army at my disposal now i'll teach those southerners who think they can start up clubs in the south a lesson... where are they? are they in range? fire!!!!

Other lads were out finding out the good night-spots and when the grab-a-grannie nights were on, my first thought was to find a proper rugby club!

[Padge]

The only problem I have with franchising is since the RFL introduced them we have had endless message board forums full of the same arguments week after week.

People don't like it to be known how sh!t and useless their club (not team ) really is in the scale of things.

[RP London]

Other lads were out finding out the good night-spots and when the grab-a-grannie nights were on, my first thought was to find a proper rugby club!

are you starting to see the error of your ways now that they are in black and white?

youd have only found 13 blokes running around a park anyway it was never, still isnt, real rugby and you wouldnt have been a true supporter anyway.. grab a grannie at least would have got results.. possibly.. and you wouldnt have ended up moderating this site.. you may have moderated an altogether different site!

Edited July 20, 2010 by RP London

[Whacky Llama]

People don't like it to be known how sh!t and useless their club (not team ) really is in the scale of things.

Can I get a t-shirt with that on

[Trojan]

Unfortunately, that's not an uncommon mindset. There are those who think that only born-and-bred Northerners deserve Rugby League and that nobody else can possibly be a 'true' fan or hold a valid opinion on the sport.

The whole wording of this petition could not be better designed to be ignored by the RFL. It comes across as paranoid, backward-looking and entirely negative.

The fact remains that most RL fans in the "heartlands" have chosen RL as their sport. There's plenty of premiership soccer in this area - Liverpool, Everton, Bolton, Wigan, Man C, Man U, plus the championship, 1st and 2nd division Yorkshire sides. There's top class Union at Leeds and Sale and any number of smaller clubs, but RL fans turn out in large numbers to support their teams.

This can't be said of - say London - where there's been a club for nigh on thirty years - long enough to establish itself as the first choice sports team perhaps a small minority of Londoners, but nevertheless a significant minority. This simply hasn't happened. And yet the RFL has persevered with them through their various incarnations, and those of us in the heartlands who allegedly think only their opnions count have (AFAIR) never been consulted about their continued subsidised existence.

Plus of course franchising, Super League, or summer Rugby. I don't recall as a regular "heartlands" supporter being asked my attitude on any of these major changes to the game. So rather than "paranoid," given their treatment by the game's administrators I'd rather use the adjective "loyal" if no one minds that is.

[Padge]

The fact remains that most RL fans in the "heartlands" have chosen RL as their sport. There's plenty of premiership soccer in this area - Liverpool, Everton, Bolton, Wigan, Man C, Man U, plus the championship, 1st and 2nd division Yorkshire sides. There's top class Union at Leeds and Sale and any number of smaller clubs, but RL fans turn out in large numbers to support their teams.

This can't be said of - say London - where there's been a club for nigh on thirty years - long enough to establish itself as the first choice sports team perhaps a small minority of Londoners, but nevertheless a significant minority. This simply hasn't happened. And yet the RFL has persevered with them through their various incarnations, and those of us in the heartlands who allegedly think only their opnions count have (AFAIR) never been consulted about their continued subsidised existence.

Plus of course franchising, Super League, or summer Rugby. I don't recall as a regular "heartlands" supporter being asked my attitude on any of these major changes to the game. So rather than "paranoid," given their treatment by the game's administrators I'd rather use the adjective "loyal" if no one minds that is.

Why should you be asked, supporters really do get ideas above their station. You are just a customer buying a product.

I don't recall Mars asking all their customers for permission to change the name of Marathon to Snickers.

[Trojan]

Why should you be asked, supporters really do get ideas above their station. You are just a customer buying a product.

I don't recall Mars asking all their customers for permission to change the name of Marathon to Snickers.

Companies like Mars do market research amongst their customers all the time. As do most companies (never filled a questionaire in on your way back from Greece Dave?) So why don't the RFL seek the views of its customers? Frightened of getting the wrong answers perhaps.

[Lee]

Companies like Mars do market research amongst their customers all the time. As do most companies (never filled a questionaire in on your way back from Greece Dave?) So why don't the RFL seek the views of its customers? Frightened of getting the wrong answers perhaps.

Maybe they have bit they missed you out Geoff

[Padge]

Companies like Mars do market research amongst their customers all the time. As do most companies (never filled a questionaire in on your way back from Greece Dave?) So why don't the RFL seek the views of its customers? Frightened of getting the wrong answers perhaps.

I have filled in quite a few RL questionaires in my time, from the RFL, from the Wigan club and from other clubs.

They don't ask every single person who is a customer though do they, RL was one of the first sports in this country to use a research company to look into the future of the sport, over 40 years ago.

[shrek]

Companies like Mars do market research amongst their customers all the time. As do most companies (never filled a questionaire in on your way back from Greece Dave?) So why don't the RFL seek the views of its customers? Frightened of getting the wrong answers perhaps.

Haven't we just had a record weekend for attendances? Maybe they are happy with how things are and under the impression a suitable number of "customers" are in agreement.

[Dave T]

I just don't understand this 'heartlands' title.

As has been pointed out already, why does anybody from the heartlands deserve more of a say or have more rights to the game of RL?

Also, I hate the fact that just because you support a team from SL you are treated like some kind of evil leper, when in fact the majority of fans watch SL, and the majority of teams in Sl are in places that would be classed as 'heartlands'.

Super League absolutely represents the heartlands.

My views on P&R and franchising are often dismissed due to supporting a SL team, yet they are a heartlands team who apparently SL doesn't represent.

[Trojan]

Haven't we just had a record weekend for attendances? Maybe they are happy with how things are and under the impression a suitable number of "customers" are in agreement.

For the top of SL. What about the rest? Salford, Bradford, Crusaders, Harlequins? Attendences are certainly down in the Championship - nowt to play for except a tick in a box. Which if posts on here are to be believed will mean absolutely nothing when the decsions are taken.

[Maximus Decimus]

People don't like it to be known how sh!t and useless their club (not team ) really is in the scale of things.

People don't like to be told that the club that they follow is sh!t and useless when in reality they have no obligation to follow a club in the first place. Franchising has created a great deal of bitterness in the sport and it will drive fans away in the long run. You're not going to follow a sport if your not wanted.

That said the petition is pathetic. It makes me laugh when people start them up as if they have the consent of the masses when in reality I'd be surprised if they had the consent of the majority at all.

There are some semi-valid points, I think the game is struggling a lot more than people like to think simply because of Super League crowds. The rest of it is largely nonsense, the game cannot survive as a heartlands only sport and it will eventually get swamped by other much larger and more prestigious sports if it does not offer a viable alternative to them. The same 12/14 teams largely based around small uninspiring northern towns isn't it.

[Blind side johnny]

http://www.totalrl.com/index.php?showtopic=205734

Agree, as long as the heartlands clubs exclude those formed since the war. They can't call themselves real heartlands can they?

Actually it's a load of old drivel as most posters on here have pointed out. i've supported one of those "excluded" clubs for more than 35 years and, in the past, any sniff of admittance to the promised land of Div 1/SL etc has inevitably resulted in five years of financial misery.

Franchising makes sense but when did sense ever have anything to do with supporting a RL club?