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England 4N and WC Preparations


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On current form Bennett and his selected Broncos players will not be joining their representative squads this year's until after the NRL GF on Oct 2nd. Meninga and Kearney will be bringing squads together from as early as the first week in September when the first players become available at the end of their club duties.

This will give Bennett less than four weeks to turn a list of individuals into a team requiring orchestral choir harmony. Is this enough time? If anyone can, it is Bennett, but I am concerned.

Bennett has less than two years from his appointment in February to prepare England for WC victory next year.

Has he named his coaching staff? Will they be joining him in Aus for preparations while his commitments in Brisbane are in place? Will Bennett be running an England squad training camp while the NRL takes next week off for the Rep Round and the Aussies and Kiwis get match experience? When will England players start joining a squad prior to this year's and next year's tournaments? With a terribly early starting SL season, will Bennett be in a position to run a pre-season England training camp when the 4N finish late November and SL starts early Feb?

I have considerable concern that despite the appointment of the world's most successful club coach, the England team will not have suitable time to bring a squad together to win at home this year and abroad next, with much of my fear coming from the appointed coach's availability to do so.

Someone please put my concerns at ease

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No consolation at all, but when Tony Smith was in charge for the 4 Nations Down Under, England had the most extensive preparation that our national team had had in years, including heat acclimation training in Africa.

 

And all that went very much down the crapper when the actual matches were played.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Doesn't mean his preparations were wrong Futtocks. Maybe he didn't have the team to compete. At the moment there are some pivotal England players who are in desperate need of a lift in form. Plenty of time to do so, I might add.

On paper, with all firing, in my opinion we can beat full strength and in form Aussie and Kiwi sides. I feel preparations will be the key here.

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Doesn't mean his preparations were wrong Futtocks. Maybe he didn't have the team to compete. At the moment there are some pivotal England players who are in desperate need of a lift in form. Plenty of time to do so, I might add.

On paper, with all firing, in my opinion we can beat full strength and in form Aussie and Kiwi sides. I feel preparations will be the key here.

The team were a disjointed bunch, which was a sadly familiar sight at that point.

 

One thing you can say about McNamara is that he got players from rival clubs working together more cohesively for their country than a lot of his predecessors. I certainly rate Tony Smith as a club coach, but for GB/England, he had trouble working with so many tribal loyalties.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Yeah I agree on McNamara. I think he did a reasonable job as a matter of fact. Narrowly missed a WC Final. Robbed of a 4 N final in 2014. Won a series against the Kiwis.

Have I missed any points from the thread about the new coaching structure and plans Futtocks? I can't remember hearing anything on it.

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We don't really know anything yet about the new coaching structure, apart from that it is Wayne Bennett and Denis Betts plus some as-yet-un-named subsidiary staff, so I'm not sure there are any points to hit or miss, as of right now.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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We don't really know anything yet about the new coaching structure, apart from that it is Wayne Bennett and Denis Betts plus some as-yet-un-named subsidiary staff, so I'm not sure there are any points to hit or miss, as of right now.

Wayne Bennet, Dennis Betts, Beelzebub, Abaddon, Apollyon, and Mephisto so the 4N is ours!

 

Magic!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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Brisbane play on Thursday June 9 and then have a bye the following week. Their next game is Saturday June 25. I understand from his interview in Feb that he will be over here for a week during this period to meet the UK-based players and continue planning for the 4N.

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Brisbane play on Thursday June 9 and then have a bye the following week. Their next game is Saturday June 25. I understand from his interview in Feb that he will be over here for a week during this period to meet the UK-based players and continue planning for the 4N.

A whole week, Wayne! A whole week RFL!  That's it then the 4N is as good as won!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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A whole week, Wayne! A whole week RFL!  That's it then the 4N is as good as won!

 

This is exactly the same as McNamara did in 2014 and 2015. How do you propose working around having half a squad here and half in Australia? We offered the job to Bennett on these terms not the other way around.

 

Now if we had got our act together we could have arranged a mid-season England test to run at the same time (for UK-based players) but that would have taken planning from the RFL.

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The team were a disjointed bunch, which was a sadly familiar sight at that point.

One thing you can say about McNamara is that he got players from rival clubs working together more cohesively for their country than a lot of his predecessors. I certainly rate Tony Smith as a club coach, but for GB/England, he had trouble working with so many tribal loyalties.

do you not remember us beating the kiwis 3 nil in 2007?

We had one terrible result in 2008 in Melbourne. The kiwis beat us twice but then when have we done well down under in recent history anyway?

2008's failure is overstated because some Leeds and Saints players werent mature enough to do their job. I also think the expectation was high after the 2007 high.

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This is exactly the same as McNamara did in 2014 and 2015. How do you propose working around having half a squad here and half in Australia? We offered the job to Bennett on these terms not the other way around.

 

Now if we had got our act together we could have arranged a mid-season England test to run at the same time (for UK-based players) but that would have taken planning from the RFL.

I don't propose anything cos no one will listen! I think you've identified the issue very well.

 

But the second question/issue is even more important!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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do you not remember us beating the kiwis 3 nil in 2007?

We had one terrible result in 2008 in Melbourne. The kiwis beat us twice but then when have we done well down under in recent history anyway?

2008's failure is overstated because some Leeds and Saints players werent mature enough to do their job. I also think the expectation was high after the 2007 high.

 

2008 was bad enough but the first half of the England v Australia 4N game at Wigan (2009) was one of the lowest points watching the national side. Wigan was about three-quarters full at best and we were 26-0 down after 35-minutes. Smith got us to the final that year and we gave it a dig but during that period we shipped points for fun.

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I don't propose anything cos no one will listen! I think you've identified the issue very well.

 

But the second question/issue is even more important!

 

My hope is that England will reach an agreement to play mid-season tests with New Zealand from 2017. We have a core bunch of top players and the coach over there it would not be that much hassle and could ignite the season as players would be pushing for selection. NZ also badly need home tests.

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Why do you think the Sutton brothers will be on our side? ;)

Because Parky apart who wouldn't be? ;)

 

Subtitle here plus Rod Stewart " I Was Only Joking" just to make it obvious: " Only Kidding!" Parky

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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2008 was bad enough but the first half of the England v Australia 4N game at Wigan (2009) was one of the lowest points watching the national side. Wigan was about three-quarters full at best and we were 26-0 down after 35-minutes. Smith got us to the final that year and we gave it a dig but during that period we shipped points for fun.

I was as disappointed as anyone over 2008, but really the results went with what the facourites. England never really beat the Kiwis and Aussies away from home in recent history. I think confidence had been raised due to the way we had beaten the Kiwis the year earlier. The results in 2008 to 9 were in line wity what we had seen before and will see again.

Irrespective of what happened in 2008 WC, the processes we went through were right, but a team relying on the likes of Sean Briscoe and Peter Fox probably shouldnt be beating world champs.

The worry now is we think we can just turn up and have a kick about and beat world class players. I posted stats a while back but we are playing fewer test matches than ever. The Aussies get stick but they are playing this week and actually have an international presence. We have sod all. A plain white shirt.

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I was as disappointed as anyone over 2008, but really the results went with what the facourites. England never really beat the Kiwis and Aussies away from home in recent history. I think confidence had been raised due to the way we had beaten the Kiwis the year earlier. The results in 2008 to 9 were in line wity what we had seen before and will see again.

Irrespective of what happened in 2008 WC, the processes we went through were right, but a team relying on the likes of Sean Briscoe and Peter Fox probably shouldnt be beating world champs.

The worry now is we think we can just turn up and have a kick about and beat world class players. I posted stats a while back but we are playing fewer test matches than ever. The Aussies get stick but they are playing this week and actually have an international presence. We have sod all. A plain white shirt.

 

Indeed in 2015 and 2016 Australia will have played 6 tests before the 4 nations final - and they had an autumn off in 2015! England during the same period will have played 7 (possibly 8 if we have a warm up this year). It doesn't bode well does it?

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Indeed in 2015 and 2016 Australia will have played 6 tests before the 4 nations final - and they had an autumn off in 2015! England during the same period will have played 7 (possibly 8 if we have a warm up this year). It doesn't bode well does it?

And no matter how often we say it, international RL will be about fifth or sixth in the pecking order!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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The worry now is we think we can just turn up and have a kick about and beat world class players. I posted stats a while back but we are playing fewer test matches than ever. The Aussies get stick but they are playing this week and actually have an international presence. We have sod all. A plain white shirt.

On one of Scubbys previous posts it looked like I'm against mid season internationals. I'm not, but the structure of our league would need to change, IMO, to allow sufficient time for realistic prep of the players.

It might be as drastic as reducing teams in the league or getting rid of Magic.

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On one of Scubbys previous posts it looked like I'm against mid season internationals. I'm not, but the structure of our league would need to change, IMO, to allow sufficient time for realistic prep of the players.

It might be as drastic as reducing teams in the league or getting rid of Magic.

 

I think things can happen regardless of the league structure. Look at Hull this week. They lost Pritchard and Manu for the cup game at St Helens this week because of international fixtures and just got on with it.

 

It is not as if one club would be losing 8 players to England any more. Nearly half our squad would be playing in the NRL already. In the premier league they have things like Africa Cup of Nations during the season and players just go. 

 

Would it really hurt our league that much if those players missed a couple of weeks? My guess is that if England (RFL)  supported by the RLIF said this is going to happen from 2018 clubs would grunt but, ultimately, just get on with it. And if they did it would change the dynamic of the game here forever as England players would be busting a gut to get selected and we could actually pick some form players like Currie and Manfredi.

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I think things can happen regardless of the league structure.

 

Would it really hurt our league that much if those players missed a couple of weeks? My guess is that if England (RFL)  supported by the RLIF said this is going to happen from 2018 clubs would grunt but, ultimately, just get on with it. And if they did it would change the dynamic of the game here forever as England players would be busting a gut to get selected and we could actually pick some form players like Currie and Manfredi.

Wouldn't the clubs have some say in it? Not sure if an agreement between the RFL & RLIF would suffice?

No, your plan wouldn't hurt all for a one off. But for a one off, clubs would 'kick up' more and you might have the withholding scenario that has just gone on down under. Our clubs are still not as strong in depth as NRL.

Whatever the 'plan' is it must give us the best shot to win. I would like to see Test series more regular. Dates and teams set in stone, year on year.

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