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29 Oct: Four Nations: England v New Zealand KO 2.30pm


Who will win?  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      5
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      24
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      14
    • Draw
      1
    • New Zealand by 1 to 6 points
      4
    • New Zealand by 7 to 12 points
      4
    • New Zealand by 13 points or more
      1


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The Kiwi's are very much there for the taking in this one. They were less than impressive against the Aussies last week and their supposedly formidable forward pack got totally dominated by an average set of Aussie forwards. 

 

There's likely to be a couple of changes to the England team from this weekend. Sam Burgess will come in at 13, I'd expect Bateman (or Farrell) to come in for Cooper in the 2nd row, and I suspect either Tom Burgess or Chris Hill will replace Taylor as starting prop along side Graham.

 

My guess would be;

Lomax

McGilvray

Watkins

Percival

Hall

Widdop

Gale

Burgess (Tom)

Hodgson

Graham

Bateman

Whitehead

Burgess (Sam)

 

Cooper

Hill

Clarke

Farrell

 

That should be strong enough to beat the Kiwi's

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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England win > NZ beat Aus > England beat Aus in London, thus knocking them out > England beat NZ to win 4N. Dream scenario.

Shaun Johnson to be passed the ball with 10 seconds to... and knock on.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Very excited ahead of this fixture.

 

I agree that this is the crucial fixture in the 4N. If England put in a fantastic performance it could set them up for the whole tournament. We do not want to be playing catch up or to have to beat the Aussies to get to the final.

 

It will be won and lost around 1, 6, ,7 and 9. Forwards are great on both sides. Hodgson and Clark have the edge over the Kiwis but the half-backs and full back cannot produce zero as they pretty much did last year. 

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Forwards cancel each other out.

Its up to the backs and kicking game to decide the outcome.

Kiwi outside backs are capable of scoring from anywhere, their halves link to the outside men are their weakness.

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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Forwards cancel each other out.

Its up to the backs and kicking game to decide the outcome.

Kiwi outside backs are capable of scoring from anywhere, their halves link to the outside men are their weakness.

They also have an inexperienced coach, as shown by the way the Perth match turned out last week.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Everyone seems certain that England will win and that sort of groupthink usually worries me.

I am far from certain.

I think its 50/50 at best.

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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Looking forward to what will be a physics contest. We have the best pack in the tournament and that will scrape the win for us. England by 6.

Similar pack to New Zealand that were outplayed by Australia last week (in a warm up though)

The packs are similar amongst the three.

Forwards lay a platform, halves unlock defenses and backs score most of the tries in a balanced team....

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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When I look at what the Australians did to the Kiwis a week or so ago there is only one area where I worry.

 

We have the forward power (and bench) to beat the Kiwis and we have the creativity in the hookers and link play to score tries.

 

My big concern is the kicking game as Australia grind out the pressure and force teams to crack and yet against the French we did not get as many repeat sets as we should or catch (and keep) the French on their line.  If we can master the kicking game I am very confident.

 

I will go for England by two scores.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Everyone seems certain that England will win and that sort of groupthink usually worries me.

England looked the more coherent team than the Kiwis in their respective warm-ups, but I'm sure both camps are working hard on improvements.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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All the hype around this game and justifiably so with the importance it has says that it should be a classic, thinking back over some 50 years of watching test matches 2 of the most memorable for me between these two nations was the 2013 WC semi and the other which I will put in the catagorie of probably the best match I have witnessed (albeit in rules of today's game it would have finished up 3 a side such was the ferocity) was the 3rd test of 1985 finishing with a young Lee Crookes kicking a goal in the final minutes to share the spoils. For those old enough to remember the teams that day were:

Great Britain: Mick Burke, Des Drummond, Garry Schofield, Shaun Edwards, Joe Lydon, Ellery Hanley, Deryck Fox, Jeff Grayshon, David Watkinson, John Fieldhouse, Andy Goodway, Ian Potter, Harry Pinner. Subs: Chris Arkwright & Lee Crooks

New Zealand: Gary Kemble, Darrell Williams, Dean Bell, James Leuluai, Dane O’Hara, Fred Ah Kuoi, Clayton Friend, Kevin Tamati, Wayne Wallace, Dane Sorensen, Mark Graham, Kurt Sorensen, Gary Prohm. Subs: Olsen Filipaina & Hugh McGahan

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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Forwards cancel each other out.

Its up to the backs and kicking game to decide the outcome.

Kiwi outside backs are capable of scoring from anywhere, their halves link to the outside men are their weakness.

I don't think their forwards will be as good as England. Aus forwards more or less gained easy ground, especially in the first 20 v NZ. NZ confidence will not be high after that showing and barring Blair, no one stood out.

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All the hype around this game and justifiably so with the importance it has says that it should be a classic, thinking back over some 50 years of watching test matches 2 of the most memorable for me between these two nations was the 2013 WC semi and the other which I will put in the catagorie of probably the best match I have witnessed (albeit in rules of today's game it would have finished up 3 a side such was the ferocity) was the 3rd test of 1985 finishing with a young Lee Crookes kicking a goal in the final minutes to share the spoils. For those old enough to remember the teams that day were:

Great Britain: Mick Burke, Des Drummond, Garry Schofield, Shaun Edwards, Joe Lydon, Ellery Hanley, Deryck Fox, Jeff Grayshon, David Watkinson, John Fieldhouse, Andy Goodway, Ian Potter, Harry Pinner. Subs: Chris Arkwright & Lee Crooks

New Zealand: Gary Kemble, Darrell Williams, Dean Bell, James Leuluai, Dane O’Hara, Fred Ah Kuoi, Clayton Friend, Kevin Tamati, Wayne Wallace, Dane Sorensen, Mark Graham, Kurt Sorensen, Gary Prohm. Subs: Olsen Filipaina & Hugh McGahan

 

That 1985 Test was a classic.

Some fantastic names in the GB backline.

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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That 1985 Test was a classic.

Some fantastic names in the GB backline.

Some all-time fan favourites in both teams.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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I don't think their forwards will be as good as England. Aus forwards more or less gained easy ground, especially in the first 20 v NZ. NZ confidence will not be high after that showing and barring Blair, no one stood out.

There was plenty of Rust on both teams in that game, I would not take too much away from this friendly warm up to this seasons Four Nations series.

The Kiwis have some of the best Forwards in the game that have proved their pedigree in the NRL, no different to Sam Burgess and James Graham.

 

The Kiwis are  a proud Nation and I think they will take the loss to Australia badly and come out firing.

 

Any team with

Jared Waerea-Hargreaves

Martin Taupau

Jason Taumalolo

Kevin Proctor

Tohu Harris 

Adam Blair

Jesse Bromwich

Will be a challenge

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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