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The future ain't what it used to be !


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It's the year 2020 and the new RL Season is about to start. Coventry, Toulouse and Toronto are all in Super League. Hull KR, Wakefield and Widnes are firmly entrenched in the Championship.

 

Do I go and watch my team play these new upstarts ? But if I do, what about the atmosphere ? I can count them already; Coventry 43 fans, Toulouse 22 fans, and Toronto 37 (friends and family of the 8 English players in their team).

 

Do I miss that atmosphere with the 2,000-3,000 away fans from the three clubs now in the Championship ? You bet I do !

 

Furthermore Coventry away on a Friday night - I don't think I will get to that one ! Toulouse and Toronto away in February or March - no chance of the possibility of a nice sunny holiday around then then, and that's if I could afford the airfares to Toronto !

 

What we generally have in SL at the moment is a unique situation where I can get to most grounds within about an hours drive from my house, and of course, so can many other fans.

 

Why start throwing all this away by expanding outside the traditional heartlands ?

 

I want to see my team playing with a majority of local players, as this gives them and I local identity.

 

With expansionism we lose this uniqueness which makes RL so great.

 

We are at a cross-roads, which road do you really want to turn down ?

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It's the year 2020 and the new RL Season is about to start. Coventry, Toulouse and Toronto are all in Super League. Hull KR, Wakefield and Widnes are firmly entrenched in the Championship.

 

Do I go and watch my team play these new upstarts ? But if I do, what about the atmosphere ? I can count them already; Coventry 43 fans, Toulouse 22 fans, and Toronto 37 (friends and family of the 8 English players in their team).

 

Do I miss that atmosphere with the 2,000-3,000 away fans from the three clubs now in the Championship ? You bet I do !

 

Furthermore Coventry away on a Friday night - I don't think I will get to that one ! Toulouse and Toronto away in February or March - no chance of the possibility of a nice sunny holiday around then then, and that's if I could afford the airfares to Toronto !

 

What we generally have in SL at the moment is a unique situation where I can get to most grounds within about an hours drive from my house, and of course, so can many other fans.

 

Why start throwing all this away by expanding outside the traditional heartlands ?

 

I want to see my team playing with a majority of local players, as this gives them and I local identity.

 

With expansionism we lose this uniqueness which makes RL so great.

 

We are at a cross-roads, which road do you really want to turn down ?

 

great question/post

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How many away fans do jacksonville jaguars take to away games at Wembley... (NFL)

How many away fans were there in the world club series?

I attended both and they both were spectacles with great athmospheres!

What does it say about your club if you need away fans to create an atmosphere!

What is your club doing to help entice away fans?

Catalan tours provide great deals! There transfers are ridiculously competitively priced!!

What is your local area doing to provide a great matchday weekend?

Is going to all away games the be all?? Would you not sooner go to fewer away games.... but in the south of France, Toronto, London, coventry???

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The choice is simple:

Accept were a local northern sport - that also accepts the media bias to other codes/sports and that there won't be much money in the game (relatively speaking)

Embrace the expansion - use that as the driving force for new income into the game

I've not no idea where I sit on this argument I can see merits on concentrating on keeping the northern roots but am also excited on the prospects of a successful expansion (which in truth we've not yet seen)

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It's the year 2020 and the new RL Season is about to start. Coventry, Toulouse and Toronto are all in Super League. Hull KR, Wakefield and Widnes are firmly entrenched in the Championship.

 

Do I go and watch my team play these new upstarts ? But if I do, what about the atmosphere ? I can count them already; Coventry 43 fans, Toulouse 22 fans, and Toronto 37 (friends and family of the 8 English players in their team).

 

Do I miss that atmosphere with the 2,000-3,000 away fans from the three clubs now in the Championship ? You bet I do !

 

Furthermore Coventry away on a Friday night - I don't think I will get to that one ! Toulouse and Toronto away in February or March - no chance of the possibility of a nice sunny holiday around then then, and that's if I could afford the airfares to Toronto !

 

What we generally have in SL at the moment is a unique situation where I can get to most grounds within about an hours drive from my house, and of course, so can many other fans.

 

Why start throwing all this away by expanding outside the traditional heartlands ?

 

I want to see my team playing with a majority of local players, as this gives them and I local identity.

 

With expansionism we lose this uniqueness which makes RL so great.

 

We are at a cross-roads, which road do you really want to turn down ?

 

It depends what you're happy to settle for.

 

If you're happy with a sport with a small geographical footprint that makes it easy for you, but results in zero national press coverage, insignificant sponsorship deals, declining TV coverage and the best players leaving to earn higher salaries elsewhere, then fine, stick with what we've got.

 

But just imagine for a moment if the founders of the Northern Union and those who followed them had been as unambitious for this sport as you appear to be. We'd never have the Challenge Cup played at Wembley (too far), we'd never have any international games because the pioneers in places like Australia and France would have been starved of support or competition from the outset and, well, we probably wouldn't have a sport at all because y'know, breaking away from rugby union was a bit risky in the first place. 

 

Your post, for me, in a nutshell sums up why Rugby League is where it is.

 

Expansion doesn't have to be an either/or choice. We can have strong grassroots as well as taking our sport to new audiences.

.

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Hi John.

 

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments on my post.

 

Expansionism ? Take a look at Premier League Football. Pre-Premier League (1993) we had our top teams comprising of British players, which included a splattering of local talent. With the advent of re-branding, the money came piling-in, and so did the expensive foreign imports. We now see a situation in modern football where most of the top teams comprise solely of foreign imports - as do their Youth teams ! Local identity has gone, and admission price has gone through the roof !. Do we really want something similar to happen to RL ? and if so, expanding nationally and indeed globally is how it will happen.

 

Do I want to travel to China and see fans wearing my club colours ? Well not really. World domination isn't the pinnacle of achievement, it's local distinction and a feeling of belonging to something that you consider is important.

 

In the 1990's I turned my back on my local football team and went to a RL match. local derbies aplenty, opportunity to stand, no over-officious stewards, let alone police, beer on the terraces and an opportunity to stand on a terrace in my club colours surrounded by the other team's fans, exchanging banter - with no aggro ! I have left football behind, and now happily support my local team, full of local players, playing against another local team with local players. The quality of the game is great and entertaining, and I can still appreciate a great number of world class players on show, that have not been enticed to Australia or Union.

 

We have a great product, and local rivalry is what makes it what it is - why throw this away ?

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Hi John.

 

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments on my post.

 

Expansionism ? Take a look at Premier League Football. Pre-Premier League (1993) we had our top teams comprising of British players, which included a splattering of local talent. With the advent of re-branding, the money came piling-in, and so did the expensive foreign imports. We now see a situation in modern football where most of the top teams comprise solely of foreign imports - as do their Youth teams ! Local identity has gone, and admission price has gone through the roof !. Do we really want something similar to happen to RL ? and if so, expanding nationally and indeed globally is how it will happen.

 

Do I want to travel to China and see fans wearing my club colours ? Well not really. World domination isn't the pinnacle of achievement, it's local distinction and a feeling of belonging to something that you consider is important.

 

In the 1990's I turned my back on my local football team and went to a RL match. local derbies aplenty, opportunity to stand, no over-officious stewards, let alone police, beer on the terraces and an opportunity to stand on a terrace in my club colours surrounded by the other team's fans, exchanging banter - with no aggro ! I have left football behind, and now happily support my local team, full of local players, playing against another local team with local players. The quality of the game is great and entertaining, and I can still appreciate a great number of world class players on show, that have not been enticed to Australia or Union.

 

We have a great product, and local rivalry is what makes it what it is - why throw this away ?

 

What a fantastic post.

There are even people on here who complain that Rugby League ticket prices are to cheap and should be increased, so they can attract a different supporter base (Middle Class) while at the same time pricing the working man from the game. Which has happened in football.

 

 Do we really want a situation like RU where people are paying extortionate prices  for a ticket to a game of Rugby.

 
 
 
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​THE NORTH OF ENGLAND WITH A POPULATION OF NEARLY 17 MILLION PEOPLE IS THE TRUE EXPANSION AREA FOR RUGBY LEAGUE........IF IT CAN'T EXPAND HERE, WHERE CAN IT EXPAND?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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We have a great product, and local rivalry is what makes it what it is - why throw this away ?

 

The sport is being left behind. Our best players are going to the NRL or RU, we constantly fail to attract media and commercial interest to realistically sustain a professional sport and the grassroots of the game are withering due to a lack of investment and interest. This isn't the 1950s anymore; it is the 21st century and we live in a competitive globalised world. If our sport doesn't attract wider investment and interest, it will gradually wither and cease to exist. A sustainable and effective approach to developing the sport both in traditional and non-traditional areas is essential if the sport is to continue as a professional organisation. 

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It's the year 2020 and the new RL Season is about to start. Coventry, Toulouse and Toronto are all in Super League. Hull KR, Wakefield and Widnes are firmly entrenched in the Championship.

 

Do I go and watch my team play these new upstarts ? But if I do, what about the atmosphere ? I can count them already; Coventry 43 fans, Toulouse 22 fans, and Toronto 37 (friends and family of the 8 English players in their team).

 

Do I miss that atmosphere with the 2,000-3,000 away fans from the three clubs now in the Championship ? You bet I do !

 

Furthermore Coventry away on a Friday night - I don't think I will get to that one ! Toulouse and Toronto away in February or March - no chance of the possibility of a nice sunny holiday around then then, and that's if I could afford the airfares to Toronto !

 

What we generally have in SL at the moment is a unique situation where I can get to most grounds within about an hours drive from my house, and of course, so can many other fans.

 

Why start throwing all this away by expanding outside the traditional heartlands ?

 

I want to see my team playing with a majority of local players, as this gives them and I local identity.

 

With expansionism we lose this uniqueness which makes RL so great.

 

We are at a cross-roads, which road do you really want to turn down ?

 

Lucky you, I'm in Canberra ... the closest away game for me is nearly a 2.5 to 3 hour drive one-way and the furthest regular away game I can drive to is a non-stop 23 hour drive.. if they hold a one off game in Perth that's nearly a 40 hour non-stop drive.... and then i'd still have to drive home again

 

If I went to NZ I'd have to fly.

 

The NSWRL realised it had to expand and bring in more teams outside of Sydney to grow. 

 

We now have the NRL and I would not have it any other way.

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The sport is being left behind. Our best players are going to the NRL or RU, we constantly fail to attract media and commercial interest to realistically sustain a professional sport and the grassroots of the game are withering due to a lack of investment and interest. This isn't the 1950s anymore; it is the 21st century and we live in a competitive globalised world. If our sport doesn't attract wider investment and interest, it will gradually wither and cease to exist. A sustainable and effective approach to developing the sport both in traditional and non-traditional areas is essential if the sport is to continue as a professional organisation. 

It isn't just the players leaving the game (not that big a number, all told); it's all the hundreds and thousands of British youngsters every year who will never ever consider the game as a viable option in the first place. How many potential superstars have slipped through the net?

 

And while keeping the game small, local and inward-looking is great for travel costs, it will eventually be fatal for RL's future as an elite sport. And the smaller the game gets, the easier a target it becomes for those who wish it to die out altogether.

 

Given the number of sports and other leisure activities available today, competition for players, spectators, TV viewers and broadcasting revenue is keener than it ever has been before. Standing still is no longer an option, let alone contraction. Standing still in professional sport is effectively going backwards, and has been since the Nineties.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Expansionism ? Be careful what you wish for !

 

Let's move on to 2030.

 

There are now only 5 traditional clubs left in SL, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Hull and Leeds. World expansionism has grown massively. Toronto are now one of the top teams in SL. In fact RL has really taken-off in Canada, as we now have teams from Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver in SL, plus Catalans, Toulouse, and a new team in Dublin. The five English teams now have only 3-4 local players in their first team squads, and it costs £150 for a standard match ticket. Fans from abroad don't travel, as the new tv contract allows them to watch the matches from the comfort of their own living rooms. The two lower leagues in RL are starved of tv money (nothing new there !) and become semi-pro at best, many fold or return to play in amateur leagues. The heartlands are dead, bar the big five, as of course tv dictates that licensing to preserve large foreign investment in the big few is maintained.

 

And then I woke up in a cold sweat and it was all a dream !!!

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Airedale you bring up some great points but the sport must succeed in spreading to new territories. This is the advent of professional sport. We brought it to Rugby and now within 20 years are being left behind by a sport we had a 90 year head start on. The decisions of expansion today will decide the future of our sport in the next 20 years, let alone making it to its third century.

It will be local club's strategical management decisions that will ensure that despite imports, the team on the pitch very much represents the community and can withstand the pressures future corporate big city clubs will place on them to retain a spot at the table.

Never more have SL clubs like Cas, Wakie, KR, Hudd's and Widnes needed to consider part ownership by paid club memberships rather than sugar daddies. Those sugar daddies will soon be setting their sights on London, Toulouse, Toronto and beyond.

The sport will move forward even if you don't want it to, even if it is as slow as it is right now.

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Expansionism ? Be careful what you wish for !

 

Let's move on to 2030.

 

There are now only 5 traditional clubs left in SL, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Hull and Leeds. World expansionism has grown massively. Toronto are now one of the top teams in SL. In fact RL has really taken-off in Canada, as we now have teams from Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver in SL, plus Catalans, Toulouse, and a new team in Dublin. The five English teams now have only 3-4 local players in their first team squads, and it costs £150 for a standard match ticket. Fans from abroad don't travel, as the new tv contract allows them to watch the matches from the comfort of their own living rooms. The two lower leagues in RL are starved of tv money (nothing new there !) and become semi-pro at best, many fold or return to play in amateur leagues. The heartlands are dead, bar the big five, as of course tv dictates that licensing to preserve large foreign investment in the big few is maintained.

 

And then I woke up in a cold sweat and it was all a dream !!!

 

Don't worry too much. Toronto won't last more than a couple of seasons. I believe their are ten rich owners of the club. So that won't end well.

 

 I'm quite happy for expansion within Europe. But if the number of clubs keeps increasing, then  there should be regional leagues. Starting with a UK North South League 1 feeding into the Championship.

 

When RL posters on here start using words like "Global" and " it doesn't matter what the price of tickets are, as long as it's a sell out" then I fear for the future of RL....... these people would support a team of Polar Bears in the name of money and expansion  

 

I just think some of em just don't get what the spirit of Rugby League is. To me they are the KFC, Pizza Hut and Mcdonalds  supporter   

 

But if Rugby League does go down the globalist route of rinsing mug fans of all their money. I'll be definitely bailing out of the whole circus.

 
 
 
​​ 
 
​THE NORTH OF ENGLAND WITH A POPULATION OF NEARLY 17 MILLION PEOPLE IS THE TRUE EXPANSION AREA FOR RUGBY LEAGUE........IF IT CAN'T EXPAND HERE, WHERE CAN IT EXPAND?
 
 
 
 
 
 
                       ​                       
    
 
                          ​                        
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

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I just think some of em just don't get what the spirit of Rugby League is. To me they are the KFC, Pizza Hut and Mcdonalds  supporter   

 

Really? You are wrong; plenty of people (many on this forum) who want to see the sport grow and expand have invested blood, sweat and tears in the development of this sport across the UK and beyond. I think these individuals embody the spirit of the sport and everything it stands for.

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And while keeping the game small, local and inward-looking is great for travel costs, it will eventually be fatal for RL's future as an elite sport. And the smaller the game gets, the easier a target it becomes for those who wish it to die out altogether.

 

The world is changing... kids nowadays travel away from home all over the world; their aspirations have changed. Listen to the likes of Burgess, Eastmond, Tomkins, Graham and many other people who have left UK RL in the last few years and you'll hear that message time and time again. We absolutely should not distance ourselves from our history, tradition and heritage but the sport also has to move with the times or it will continue to be left behind and fail to meet the aspirations of this generation and the next and the next to the detriment of the sport. Expansion should not be conducted at the expense of the traditions of the sport but if clubs who have a long heritage in the sport don't professionalise and change as the world is changing, they absolutely deserve to be left behind. Life is a competition and as a sport, it is essential we move forward and grow, not look to the past constantly and standstill.

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Hi John.

 

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments on my post.

 

Expansionism ? Take a look at Premier League Football. Pre-Premier League (1993) we had our top teams comprising of British players, which included a splattering of local talent. With the advent of re-branding, the money came piling-in, and so did the expensive foreign imports. We now see a situation in modern football where most of the top teams comprise solely of foreign imports - as do their Youth teams ! Local identity has gone, and admission price has gone through the roof !. Do we really want something similar to happen to RL ? and if so, expanding nationally and indeed globally is how it will happen.

 

Do I want to travel to China and see fans wearing my club colours ? Well not really. World domination isn't the pinnacle of achievement, it's local distinction and a feeling of belonging to something that you consider is important.

 

In the 1990's I turned my back on my local football team and went to a RL match. local derbies aplenty, opportunity to stand, no over-officious stewards, let alone police, beer on the terraces and an opportunity to stand on a terrace in my club colours surrounded by the other team's fans, exchanging banter - with no aggro ! I have left football behind, and now happily support my local team, full of local players, playing against another local team with local players. The quality of the game is great and entertaining, and I can still appreciate a great number of world class players on show, that have not been enticed to Australia or Union.

 

We have a great product, and local rivalry is what makes it what it is - why throw this away ?

 

It's not the binary choice you want to make it. Localism or expansion? We can and should want both.

 

The Australian NRL is rolling in cash. They dominate the Rugby League world. They have lots of intense local rivalries at club level, not to mention State of Origin too. Without expansion of the sport that was born in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, none of that would exist today. Without expansion in Australia itself, you wouldn't have Brisbane Broncos, North Queensland Cowboys or Melbourne Storm, to name but three who have successfully graced the sport with their endeavours as well as broadening its geographical footprint. Then there's New Zealand Warriors, same competition, different country. It works, why knock it? Rugby League is the national sport in Papua New Guinea too. What's not to love about that? It hasn't stopped Wigan playing Saints, Hull playing Hull KR, Warrington playing Widnes etc. And the only reason my own club Bradford no longer plays Leeds is because of their own failings, not because people as far away as Sheffield or London, or Perpignan, or Toulouse, are now watching and playing Rugby League.

 

I don't fear expansion at all. I love it. The more people watching and playing Rugby League the better, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'll honestly never get my head round why some people have so little confidence in it that they sincerely believe it can only possibly ever be played in three counties of the north of England and must never venture further than the M62/M6.

.

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AiredaleMike's points about affordability, local rivalries and local players are fair ones and they are some of the things that give Rugby League an authenticity over other sports. The problem is that for some reason this is not enough for the majority of fans who espouse this view. They have to have all these things and be in the top flight of the sport.

 

In the example in the OP:

 

Hull KR, Wakefield and Widnes are firmly entrenched in the Championship.

 

So in your scenario the local rivalries, players and presumably affordability are still there, they're just at a lower level of the game. It's like the example that is always given in these threads - Cumbria. Supposedly a RL heartland and yet apparently the game is dying because despite the fact that in this sparsely populated region there are two teams in our second tier and one in the third, one of the small towns doesn't have a team at the very top level so no one is interested. That doesn't sound like a heartland to me.

 

Expansionism ? Be careful what you wish for !

 

Let's move on to 2030.

 

There are now only 5 traditional clubs left in SL, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Hull and Leeds. World expansionism has grown massively. Toronto are now one of the top teams in SL. In fact RL has really taken-off in Canada, as we now have teams from Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver in SL, plus Catalans, Toulouse, and a new team in Dublin. The five English teams now have only 3-4 local players in their first team squads, and it costs £150 for a standard match ticket. Fans from abroad don't travel, as the new tv contract allows them to watch the matches from the comfort of their own living rooms. The two lower leagues in RL are starved of tv money (nothing new there !) and become semi-pro at best, many fold or return to play in amateur leagues. The heartlands are dead, bar the big five, as of course tv dictates that licensing to preserve large foreign investment in the big few is maintained.

 

And then I woke up in a cold sweat and it was all a dream !!!

 

Your hypothetical scenarios are getting even more ridiculous

 

  • Simultaneously match tickets are in such demand that they're £150 but also away fans won't travel
  • In your doomsday scenario, there are still five clubs in the top flight within easy travel distance for heartland fans who want to watch the top level of the game, but "the heartlands are dead"!
  • Fans of smaller heartland clubs can still watch their teams, experience the local rivalries etc. but just at a lower level (although likely better quality, as playing numbers increase with the spread of the game).
  • Despite the massively increased amounts of money in the game, somehow the lower leagues have less money than they do now? You know that the lower level clubs in the Australian Rugby League are far more wealthy than their British equivalents right? And most of the CC teams are already part-time and some expensive storm damage away from amateurism anyway?

Aside from the fact that this is paranoid nonsense and will never happen, it still shows an absolute sense of entitlement and ownership of the game from some heartland fans.

 

Here is my worry as a fan of the game from outside the heartlands, a worry that is far more likely to happen than your nightmare scenario. The game continues to contract to it's heartlands, growing ever more insular and unwelcoming. Media coverage gets even sparser than it is now as advertisers show no interest in an ever diminishing and homogenizing audience. Sky's viewing figures gradually decrease to the point where they reduce their coverage to two games a week, then one and then finally they decide to scrap RL coverage altogether. You and other heartland fans can continue to attend your local derbies live, but for me and every other RL fan outside the heartlands the game has pretty much disappeared. At least MancRL will get his dream of seeing England lose 80-0 to Australia in Batley or Rochdale though.

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Really? You are wrong; plenty of people (many on this forum) who want to see the sport grow and expand have invested blood, sweat and tears in the development of this sport across the UK and beyond. I think these individuals embody the spirit of the sport and everything it stands for.

Some of the wishes of the "traditionalists" are very hard to tell apart from the wishes of the other Rugby code and what they want to see happen to our game.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Nobody is saying RL can't expand outside the North. But if it's to succseeed in Canada it must have  A Canadian League.

 

Even Football doesn't have a Global league. It has national leagues that feed into pan continental competitions like the Champions League.

 
 
 
​​ 
 
​THE NORTH OF ENGLAND WITH A POPULATION OF NEARLY 17 MILLION PEOPLE IS THE TRUE EXPANSION AREA FOR RUGBY LEAGUE........IF IT CAN'T EXPAND HERE, WHERE CAN IT EXPAND?
 
 
 
 
 
 
                       ​                       
    
 
                          ​                        
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

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