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Is the " New Era" dawning?


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Now that the SC has officially been thrown open could it spread the available talent about.

Firstly we need to look at the new clubs in that I mean Toulouse and Toronto have they now been given a passport to SL, I expect to see the Frenchies there in 2018 and the Canadians there in 2019.

There is no way whatsoever that this 3 x 8 system will be scrapped why these two teams will have a very real opportunity to be promoted to SL.

It may even attract those business men who have been reluctant to put money into teams below SL because they have been previously shackled in what they could spend, now they are being allowed to compete.

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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Now that the SC has officially been thrown open could it spread the available talent about.

Firstly we need to look at the new clubs in that I mean Toulouse and Toronto have they now been given a passport to SL, I expect to see the Frenchies there in 2018 and the Canadians there in 2019.

There is no way whatsoever that this 3 x 8 system will be scrapped why these two teams will have a very real opportunity to be promoted to SL.

It may even attract those business men who have been reluctant to put money into teams below SL because they have been previously shackled in what they could spend, now they are being allowed to compete.

 

The record is that Players want Superleague and medals and some will take less money to be at Leeds, Saints, Wire and Wigan.

 

But if a Championship club has the scope to pay a player £200K a year in the Championship it could happen but I really doubt it Gary - what is the point? 

 

If the RFL want Toulouse and Canada to reach Superleague then they HAVE to scrap the new structure and put automatic P & R In. As Adam Pearson said they are looking to scrap it after next year, this would gel beautifully with Toulouse and Canada lining up for promotion to SL.

 

The current system would block them like it stopped your club last year when it should, as a well run well funded winning club, have replace losers Wakefield who are now looking to go play in Dewsbury, how mental is that Gary??  

 

If there are businessmen looking to put money in then there are Superleague clubs already available at Wakefield where they can buy the ground and the club, or Widnes where the owner doesn't want to pump money in, just wants others to do it, or HKR where they welcomed a new owner in Tony Larvin with open arms

 

Since Jack Fulton passed away Cas may be available, and now Koukash has fallen out with the RFL and is considering the situation, they should be available. I think we know there are no new takers for ready made SL clubs, why would anyone want a Championship club unless they are a "fan"?.

 

The only shackled CC club owner I can recall was Mr. Johnstone at Barrow,

 

Oh and Degsy........

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Parky,

Such has been all the hype of the "New Era" the RFL if they are to abolish it as Adam Pearson predicts after such a short period would lose any credibility they have as individuals especially Nigel Woods in his role as overlord. The individuals may or may not have longevity in their present rolls but they will always have a CV, a calamity or a 180° turn on a major project such as this would not make good reading for any prospective employer.

The RFL have to make this system work, promotion for any club gained in this system will tick their boxes, especially if it is the new kids on the block.

There are many involved in our game Chairmen, administrator's and fans who would ditch the New Era tomorrow if they could, there are also many who are pro this system or fence sitters who are prepared to give it more time.

Everybody knows that the first design was weighted in favour of the SL clubs, and will still be, but with this tweak of the cap, it allows those who can to level the recruitment side with some (not all) of the SL teams.

Parky, you also say that the only money men who could possibly be enticed to spend their well earned would be local guys and fans of the club, but what are Lenighan, McManus, Davy, Hutchell, Pearson, Moran, Guasch even as you say Degsy, these are names of the top of my head, exceptions I can think of are Hughes and Kook's (you will obviously fill in the gaps).

The big clubs will still be the big clubs, only 4 Champion teams in 20 years bear testament to that, there are clubs who will not have the inclination or desire to be a SL club, but there are some and their fans who wonder what if?

The Championship has been better this year than it has been for as long as I can remember, this 'open' cap which it will be for some may have a detrimental effect on the competitiveness we have seen this season in that division, but it still creates ambition, and we all need ambition, don't we?

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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What the Super 8s does well is ensure that any club that goes up would be genuinely competive in SL. To scrap them to let Toulouse and Toronto go up more easily, does beg the question what do do once they have gone up? Reinstate the Super 8s. Maybe if a successful World Cup and inter-continental cup does bring more money into the game, better distributions to Champ clubs could mean the likes of Bradford, Leigh, Cas, HKR, Salford and Wakey could all competively yo-yo between SL and the Champ.

I still like the fact that the Super 8s does probably make 'every minute matter' across both SL and the champ, especially for mid table teams, and clubs and Sky are not going to want less games.

The RFL have suggested Super 8s will still be here next year, I Suspect a few years after. Flexibility seemed to be a key word in Wood's briefing, and that stance will allow the RFL to be reactive to any positive change of fortunes in our game, or preach consistency if that doesn't transpire

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The new salary cap is great for Toronto. During their CEO's recent BBC interview he said they have a few bids from national tv networks to broadcast every game and they say all running costs should be covered by sponsors. They will have some good coin rolling in.

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With a £1.85m salary cap in the Championship it's hard to see at this stage how Toulouse can compete at the top end of the Championship.

RS, I am sorry but that has just disillusioned me, I was led to believe that T.O. had a consortium of money men waiting in the background to bankroll the club, are you saying that this is not so?

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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I'll leave this one open for anyone who has information about the backers waiting to come in. What I will say is that Toulouse will struggle to get much over 1,500 in the Championship which added to their travel costs would mean Director loan etc support in the region of at least £1m plus per season to enable them to spend up to cap level until  they got promoted (Next year for example I assume Leigh or whoever comes down will spend the cap level or approaching it and then that would be to be top dog in the Championship and then the tricky bit starts of getting SL status ahead of a SL club in the middle 8s).

 

IF what Perez says comes to fruition I can see Toronto buying themselves out of the Championship but  there is a lot of water to flow under that bridge first.

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Parky,

 

1. Such has been all the hype of the "New Era" the RFL if they are to abolish it as Adam Pearson predicts after such a short period would lose any credibility they have as individuals especially Nigel Woods in his role as overlord. The RFL have to make this system work, promotion for any club gained in this system will tick their boxes, especially if it is the new kids on the block.

2. There are many involved in our game Chairmen, administrator's and fans who would ditch the New Era tomorrow if they could, there are also many who are pro this system or fence sitters who are prepared to give it more time.

3. Everybody knows that the first design was weighted in favour of the SL clubs, and will still be, but with this tweak of the cap, it allows those who can to level the recruitment side with some (not all) of the SL teams.

 

 

1. "Would"? "Have to" now then Gary your presenting things as fact!! :tongue:  Not allowed!

 

Pearson said they'd leave it the three years to ensure they had given it a good go,  I don't believe the RFL/SL are really that separate such that they won't/can't agree how to get out of the mess of the new structure and save some face whilst the pathway is laid open to get Toulouse and Canada in. It would IMHO be madness to let this new structure go on to block these clubs.

 

Don't you feel that both SL and RFL want Toulouse in ASAP? The evidence seems to back that.

 

2. the SL clubs voted 7-6 to take it on and two of the seven are gone, and another three only voted for  because it got them advance payments, there's a probable majority who  want to ditch it now. I can send you the evidence of that PM me.

 

3. Gary the reality is the best players all sign for SL clubs, as that's the higher league and the better job security, and the championship take the left overs mate, your own club took Salford's left overs. When there is a player shortage raising the cap doesn't do much.

 

For the status quo to change what has to happen is clubs have to be able to pay more than each other not the same. This is how Koukash wanted to take Salford to the top by paying more for players than the top clubs, he was allowed via marquee and as he said he made offers for the best in the world but they would not come.

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Parky, you also say that the only money men who "could possibly" be enticed to spend their well earned would be local guys and fans of the club, but what are Lenighan, McManus, Davy, Hudgell, Pearson, Moran, Guasch, Degsy, Hughes.....

 

and Kook's 

The Championship has been better this year than it has been for as long as I can remember, this 'open' cap which it will be for some may have a detrimental effect on the competitiveness we have seen this season in that division, but it still creates ambition, and we all need ambition, don't we?

 

Gary, your right all those people are fans of their clubs but Superleague has been available to rich fans of all the clubs for many years.

 

How did HKR get there? A rich fan put money in and won the championship, Mr. Hudgell had ambition and he got entry.

 

The old system was a cheaper way to get in Superleague, Degsy's Leigh could have got there on £300K salary cap if there hadn't been licensing/new system that blocked them when they beat Fev at Headingley.

 

I know it excites you the thought of all these Championship clubs being able to spend full cap but the reality is the licensing and qualifying systems block them. You maybe need to think again and start calling for auto P & R to return??

 

And that is my point that it may well be returning in time to open a wider door for Toulouse and Canada to get in.

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1. "Would"? "Have to" now then Gary your presenting things as fact!! :tongue:  Not allowed!

 

Pearson said they'd leave it the three years to ensure they had given it a good go,  I don't believe the RFL/SL are really that separate such that they won't/can't agree how to get out of the mess of the new structure and save some face whilst the pathway is laid open to get Toulouse and Canada in. It would IMHO be madness to let this new structure go on to block these clubs.

 

Don't you feel that both SL and RFL want Toulouse in ASAP? The evidence seems to back that.

 

2. the SL clubs voted 7-6 to take it on and two of the seven are gone, and another three only voted for  because it got them advance payments, there's a probable majority who  want to ditch it now. I can send you the evidence of that PM me.

 

3. Gary the reality is the best players all sign for SL clubs, as that's the higher league and the better job security, and the championship take the left overs mate, your own club took Salford's left overs. When there is a player shortage raising the cap doesn't do much.

 

For the status quo to change what has to happen is clubs have to be able to pay more than each other not the same. This is how Koukash wanted to take Salford to the top by paying more for players than the top clubs, he was allowed via marquee and as he said he made offers for the best in the world but they would not come.

 

On point two, I think the clubs were tied and the RFL had the casting vote.

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If Toulouse & Toronto both make Super League or the situation looks likely then you'd have to think the RFL would look at a new structure. 9 English Super League teams would be too few, going to 14 teams again would make sense. Part P/R, part franchising would be best IMO with the FFRXIII having 2 guaranteed spots in the SL every year (until 3 is viable)

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Now that the SC has officially been thrown open could it spread the available talent about.

Firstly we need to look at the new clubs in that I mean Toulouse and Toronto have they now been given a passport to SL, I expect to see the Frenchies there in 2018 and the Canadians there in 2019.

There is no way whatsoever that this 3 x 8 system will be scrapped why these two teams will have a very real opportunity to be promoted to SL.

It may even attract those business men who have been reluctant to put money into teams below SL because they have been previously shackled in what they could spend, now they are being allowed to compete.

 

Again, I must disagree with the last paragraph.  A rich man could gain assurances and gain a place a la Les Catalans or Crusaders with licensing.  With P&R, the rich man must accept a certain roulette. 

 

But as there is not a queue of rich men eager to invest money and become poorer men, this is all rather academic.

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Its absurd to have to new competition at the end of a competition that had no grand final... just makes it more confusing for people not familiar with the sport. 

also got to say no cap restrictions in Championship 1 is not a good Idea how are south wales scorpions etc meant to compete with 1.85 million pound budgets for players? 

 

How about proper season with a grand final for all divisions? winner gets promotion provided they are able to met set criteria around sponsorship/funding, Jr pathways/academy, stadium facilities. Simple. 

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On point two, I think the clubs were tied and the RFL had the casting vote.

 

Sadler said it was a 7-6 vote with one abstention being Les Catalans who were not classed as having the status to vote on the basis of being in SL by invitation i.e. a guest. 

 

The vote was a package that included advance payments from the SKY deal some clubs were desperate for. these were quoted by Sadler at £300,000 immediate payment to every club. The inference being a bit of a bribe to vote with the RFL

 

I can't find a casting vote, but I can find the clubs 7-6 vote being "nodded through by the RFL board of directors" afterwards. Corrections always welcome though......

 

I can't find any evidence the rift between the RFL and the major SL clubs ever healed despite people on here thinking that once a vote was cast that was that. But for the advance payment promise it may have gone the other way is the inference, and even at 7-6 some chairman were reported as believing such a split/narrow vote was far too close to make such radical changes,   

 

On balance those who saw the vote through included the collapsing London and Bradford who are no longer in SL and skint Wakefield who pretty much failed to embrace the new system until their proverbials were on the line. Maybe your "Tail wagging the dog" point applied even here?

 

Big Nige's latest comments on the changes are glowing so he's stood his ground on the issue. He also said the system was to be given at least three years, something Adam Pearson confirmed so in about 14 months or so we may be back to the argument again, moreso if the system doesn't deliver, but as far as Wood is concerned it already has. 

 

That the "Rebel" clubs didn't walk out in protest was said to be because of the importance of the deal, so they lived to fight another day as we are seeing.

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Why should they?

Let's expand it a little further, will no English or Welsh clubs be allowed to participate in Euro football competition's or is that it will Chris Froom's day's be over in competing in the Tour de France, can't see it happening in any sport.

"If Rugby League had never been Invented, today we would only have Rugby League"

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Its absurd to have to new competition at the end of a competition that had no grand final... just makes it more confusing for people not familiar with the sport.

also got to say no cap restrictions in Championship 1 is not a good Idea how are south wales scorpions etc meant to compete with 1.85 million pound budgets for players?

How about proper season with a grand final for all divisions? winner gets promotion provided they are able to met set criteria around sponsorship/funding, Jr pathways/academy, stadium facilities. Simple.

On the point about South Wales competing with 1.85 million... well they aren't supposed to compete if they can't. The structure, as is the nature of P/R means that not every club in every league will have genuine aspirations of promotion, whereas others will. And lets face it there's only a handful of clubs that can pay anywhere near the SC without SKY money.

I agree on your general simple promotion view, but having different caps at different tiers makes no sense. SL is the pinnacle and therefore should be the most competitive, hence the salary cap. However teams in lower divisions are going to struggle to get promoted in the 8s system if you artificially reduce the cap in an attempt to manufacture total competitiveness in that league.

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You still do t get it. This structure and funding is designed to get to 20 FT clubs which will then become 2x10 in a new SL structure involving licensing and promotion between divisions. 12 current SL clubs plus Leigh London Bradford Fev Fax Toronto Toulouse plus Newcastle or Cardiff to make up the comp. In 5 years time review licences £1.8m funding in SL1 and £1m in SL2, Toronto to be self funding with TV deal

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On the point about South Wales competing with 1.85 million... well they aren't supposed to compete if they can't. The structure, as is the nature of P/R means that not every club in every league will have genuine aspirations of promotion, whereas others will. And lets face it there's only a handful of clubs that can pay anywhere near the SC without SKY money.

I agree on your general simple promotion view, but having different caps at different tiers makes no sense. SL is the pinnacle and therefore should be the most competitive, hence the salary cap. However teams in lower divisions are going to struggle to get promoted in the 8s system if you artificially reduce the cap in an attempt to manufacture total competitiveness in that league.

Regarding South Wales, Coventry, Hunslet... with budgets of 300,000 if lucky Vs Championship 1 side sending 1.85 million. Has financial impact to small expansion & traditional clubs been considered when trying to compete with that type of budget? The difference in funds will have a flow an effect on to the field, Super league strength squads vs Championship 1 strength opposition every week ... how does that help small clubs struggling to survive?

 

I have previously thought how could Championship 1 sides compete with Super League sides in the Challenge cup? I guess now 1 or 2 richer clubs can financially foot it with the big boys. But barring that infrequent one off possibility. What is the point of having 1.85 million spent on players in championship 1? were the average attendance is about 500 people per match...

 

It makes sense to be able to spend 1.85 million for the top Championship sides because as well as meeting Super League sides in the Challenge cup, top 4 championship clubs need to be on level footing with Super League opposition when they meet in the Super 8's. But Championship 1 should have much lower cap as it is a semi pro league! Most of these teams scrape together 200.000 - 300,000 budgets as it is...  

 

(edited to make points more concise)

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Regarding South Wales, Coventry, Hunslet etc who have a budgets of 300,000 if lucky Vs a side in Championship 1 sending 1.85 million. Has the potential impact been considered it may financial harm these clubs trying to compete with that type of budget. The difference in funds is huge and sides in same low division could get absolutely rolled by a big spending side with much better players... how does that help anyone for small club trying to survive?

 

I get it I had previously thought how could Championship 1 sides compete with Super League sides if they ever met in Challenge cup well I guess for a few richer clubs now they can financially foot it with the big boys. But barring that infrequent one off possibility occurring what is the point of having 1.85 million spent on players in championship 1? were the average attendance is about 500 people per match...

 

In the Championship it makes sense to be able to spend 1.85 million for the top sides because as well as one off possibility of meeting Super League sides in the Challenge cup, top 4 championship clubs need to be on level footing with Super League opposition when the meet in the Super 8's at the end of season.  

I think there is certainly a risk, but that is where the 50% rule should be in as a shield against reckless spending. If clubs are only getting around 500 then it is unlikely that their turnover would be £3.7m. If they have an investor who wants to personally fund spending, then that could be encouraged without tying the club to the debt.

 

What we should see is that cash-rich clubs get promoted out of these divisions quite quickly and find their level at the upper end meaning that we eventually end up with more than 12 clubs spending decent amounts. When people talk about raising salary caps as players will walk away from the game, well this could absolutely be something that helps to prevent that as there may be 15 or 16 viable options to go and earn decent money instead of the current 10 or 12.

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