Jonty Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Probably sounding a bit like a pub cumudgeon, but what's the attraction of "craft beer"? I don't mean the cask ale/microbrew market, but the increasing presence of overpriced stuff that comes in 330ml bottles. I suppose there is an element of cross-over, but bear with me... For Christmas I received a one month trial for a "craft beer club". Sounded good. What I received was a box of 8 x 330ml bottles of various beers that can only be described as beer for people that don't like beer. A couple of them were OK. One of them was quite good. But the others? It's almost as if they've been brewed by someone that doesn't have to drink them. I get the impression that they're playing to a certain market, and couldn't care less if they get little-to-no-interest from the established cask beer drinker, such as myself. Fair enough, but I do wonder what the impact is on established micro/mini brewers that have been putting in the hard yards for the past few years. Take Brewdog. Brewdog seem to be promoted as the epitome of cool. I tried one of their beers recently in a pub. It came in a 330ml can for £4, or approx. £6.50 a pint. It tasted like a fairly generic lager. Nothing special, but seriously - the equivalent of £6.50 a pint! There must be a market, otherwise Brewdog wouldn't be expanding, but I can't see it holding up in the long term for any more than a small percentage of these small batch brewers that are new to the market and chasing a certain niche.. Or am I missing the point? disques vogue The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba. DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit. Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 It's one of these commercially driven things with mid- and large-sized breweries trying to get in on the act about the higher prices you'll see for good batch beer from the microbreweries. I tried some of it myself after a recommendation, first bottle I just thought was stale old stuff that must be a bad batch. tried another and then realised that it really was that bad. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Bottled beer is my choice in one of my favourite pubs ... the Black Swan in Bradford ... that doesn't sell draught beer. Black Sheep and Saltaire Blonde taste fine from a bottle. I don't like any British lager ... I used to deal with Webster's Brewery when they brewed Fosters then exported it in 3000 gallon tankers. I think the diesel in those wagons would have tasted better to me. However, check out Budvar (Czech) and Lech (Poland); they are nice bottled lagers. All these brews come in bottles of greater size than 330ml, in fact just short of a pint. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I would like to compare it to an inverse Beatles. Just as Rock'n'Roll arrived in the UK, was altered for local tastes and exported back, so real ale was sampled in the USA, altered for local tastes and exported back. Just as the US was a market that of people that don't like 'real' beer, so they are finding the same market in the UK. That these people are not drinking cask ale is pretty much down to bad marketing in the UK. Living in Oxford, I drank pleny of Wychwood ale, but looking at the labels it is driven towards men with beards who play Dungeons and Dragons. Brewdog may be targeted at young people who are really annoying, but there are plenty of them. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 In my experience, quite often when "foreign" beers and lagers are sold in 330ml bottles or aluminium cans, they have actually been brewed under licence in the UK. If so, file under K for kack. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolford6 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Available at Morrisons Supermarkets: https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Saltaire-Blonde-Premium-Ale/288746011 https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/product/Black-Sheep-Ale-Bottle/120068011?from=search&tags=|105651¶m=black+sheep&parentContainer=SEARCHblack+sheep_SHELFVIEW https://groceries.morrisons.com/webshop/getSearchProducts.do?clearTabs=yes&isFreshSearch=true&chosenSuggestionPosition=&entry=budvar Don't get the 330ml bottles of Budvar; don't taste as good as the 500ml ones. Same for canned Lech. Bottled Lech is generally on sale in Polish shops and bars. In those places, bottled Tyskie is often offered as the drink of choice. I don't know why, to me its like drinking liquid sandpaper compared to Lech. Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Just like any other area of food or drink, it is a broad church, encompassing the good, the bad and the lazy. The good: there are lots of great and/or interesting beers coming out of the craft beer scene. The bad: there are also the bandwagon-jumpers (who may or may not be arms of mainstream drink multinationals), who spend more on PR and label design than anything drinkable. The lazy: most hipster breweries start with an IPA, follow it up with another IPA and then produce several other pretty much identical IPAs. Boring! As for Brewdog, I have had some of their beers that were pretty decent, and some that were overpriced and dull. They are far too keen on chasing headlines and attention, as with their Tactical Nuclear Penguin. But they do get it right, at a fairly reasonable price, sometimes. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henage Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Was in Nellies (Beverley) Saturday .Round was pint of stout (very nice) pint Bitter (ok) Pint lager (nice) all for under a fiver . Craft beer is over priced . Will be in Old blue bell (Hull) Weekend same round same price , both Sam smiths (Tadcaster) Both places are well worth a visit , great choice of drinks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Was in Nellies (Beverley) Saturday .Round was pint of stout (very nice) pint Bitter (ok) Pint lager (nice) all for under a fiver . Craft beer is over priced . Will be in Old blue bell (Hull) Weekend same round same price , both Sam smiths (Tadcaster) Both places are well worth a visit , great choice of drinks . Sam Smiths pubs are excellent value and their Old Brewery Cask Bitter is a great drink. As for American beers, I quite liked them when I was in NY w years ago. I was pleasantly surprised by their quality. I was expecting to have to drink Bud or some such ######. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Manchester beer festival this week. Should be one or two nice ones. With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 American beer has come on a lot in the last few decades, as long as you avoid the mass-brewing behemoths. Some seriously good and imaginative ales being made, and also (in many cases) imported over here. As for the UK scene; in the last few months, my dad's local town (Kelso) has seen a tiny but really well-stocked beer shop open. Many of the beers available are brewed within 50 miles of the town. Not only are some of them are stunningly good, but there are loads of them! The guy running it knows his stuff too, and is worth asking for advice. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun mc Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 A greater proportion of 'craft' beers are now brewed by the mid to larger breweries under different brand names such as Crafty Dan (Thwaites) trying to get in on the growing market for beer that has a bit of taste, and to counteract the decreasing sales of mass produced bland beers. In addition the bigger boys are also buying up part of the market (eg Meantime) and will slowly standardise and cheapen the product. I'm in 2 minds about Brewdog. I like their attitude and in Cocoa Psycho they have my favourite beer, though its not something I'd drink every day, especially at 10%. However, there is a price premium with their beers - but then they overload the brew with the most expensive ingredient - hops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getdownmonkeyman Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Tried Brewdog a couple of times. Didn't get what the fuss was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Tried Brewdog a couple of times. Didn't get what the fuss was about. They make a lot of beers. Some of them are good, some of them are gimmicky, some of them are forgettable. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Some craft beers are a bit derivative - once you've had one over-hoppy American style IPA you've probably had them all - but then the nature of the beast is that they are mostly m\de by small-ish, experimental/ new brewers who don't yet have the experience to find their own distinctive style. (I'm excluding the band-waggoning larger brewers who sense a market share slipping away and have rushed out to produce hoppy versions of their standard beer and called it "craft"). But living down south, craft beer has been nothing short of revolutionary. 15 years ago I couldn't get a pint of real ale in my neck of the woods - now there are 3 small breweries, 2 with their own taps, and about half the pubs have local craft beers on, and a few now carry decent real ales as well. There's also much more interest in a wider range of beers among general drinkers - stronger ales, porters and stouts - than I can remember. It's not a question of coming down to earth, Mr Duxbury. Some of us, Mr Duxbury, belong in the stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Emperors new clothes? Fans forum goes posh http://www.waitrose.com/home/inspiration/about_waitrose/about_our_food/drink/beer.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Well I wouldn't normally shop at Waitrose, but only they seem to sell Fullers 1845 which is my favorite beer. Not what you'd call a session beer because it's 6.3% but a bottle every now and then won't do any harm. It has a deep satisfying flavour and the high alcohol takes care of any excessive sweetness. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornetto Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Manchester beer festival this week. Should be one or two nice ones. http://newsmanc.co.uk/2012/03/02/news-northern-quarter-petrol-station-sells-craft-fuel-for-3-10-a-litre/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Cheers for the comments. I've never drunk Sam Smiths, but a couple of pubs I intend to visit later this week ahead of the Capital Challenge, are Sam Smiths' houses - the wonderful Cittie of Yorke at Chancery Lane, being one, and the Princess Louise at Holborn, with it's listed gents bogs, being another disques vogue The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba. DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit. Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Like others have said there is "craft beer" and there is "craft beer"; just because something calls itself craft doesn't necessarily make it so. This even more true now that the real big boys are moving into the market, especially behemoth Anheuser-Busch InBev which owns 25% of the world beer market and a number of former craft brands. On the flip side of the upsurge of craft and it becoming trendy is that it has awakened and interest in beer among younger drinkers. They get drawn to the new trend for craft beer, they become curious about beer in general and generate towards cask ale. I know plenty of my 20-30 year old friends who have followed this path. And that is no bad thing in my opinion. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrek Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 As for Brewdog, I have had some of their beers that were pretty decent, and some that were overpriced and dull. They are far too keen on chasing headlines and attention, as with their Tactical Nuclear Penguin. But they do get it right, at a fairly reasonable price, sometimes. I had the misfortune to share a bottle of that with Mr Riversiderontour on an ill fated night out in Manchester, its as awful as you'd expect! Loving the springing up of several new pubs from local brewaries in the Wigan area, now they are "craft beers", we seem spoiled at the moment, long may it continue. If I had the money, I think I'd have one of these myself, great idea, download the reciepe from the net and brew it at home and avoid getting stung by the big boys passing off there pish as craft beer! Originally designed for small brewiers to fine tune reciepes without doing a full production run, but quickly it found a home in the home brew market as people are sick of drinking the rubbish they were producing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Like others have said there is "craft beer" and there is "craft beer"; just because something calls itself craft doesn't necessarily make it so. This even more true now that the real big boys are moving into the market, especially behemoth Anheuser-Busch InBev which owns 25% of the world beer market and a number of former craft brands. On the flip side of the upsurge of craft and it becoming trendy is that it has awakened and interest in beer among younger drinkers. They get drawn to the new trend for craft beer, they become curious about beer in general and generate towards cask ale. I know plenty of my 20-30 year old friends who have followed this path. And that is no bad thing in my opinion. And once you get past the "me too" beardie hipsters and their endless IPAs, you will find some brewers making more interesting concoctions, including the kind of light, golden ales that are a good introduction for those wishing to take the next step away from mass-produced lager. You know, the kind of people who see real ale fans as hopelessly middle-aged bores and wouldn't ever consider a foaming pint of something like Owld Cameron's Porky Mouthful. Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonty Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Loving the springing up of several new pubs from local brewaries in the Wigan area, now they are "craft beers", we seem spoiled at the moment, long may it continue. Agreed - I went to the Tap 'n' Barrel and Wigan Central last week, and they were great pubs, although I was disappointed with The Raven. It's a shame that the pubs serving a good range of beer where I live (Hindley) are few and far between. The Hare and Hounds is good, and the Bird i'th' Hand isn't too bad, but most places are John Smiths/Fosters etc. It's a shame that Hindley's brewery, Hophurst, doesn't have any outlets in the town, as their beer is very good. disques vogue The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba. DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit. Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Agreed - I went to the Tap 'n' Barrel and Wigan Central last week, and they were great pubs, although I was disappointed with The Raven. It's a shame that the pubs serving a good range of beer where I live (Hindley) are few and far between. The Hare and Hounds is good, and the Bird i'th' Hand isn't too bad, but most places are John Smiths/Fosters etc. It's a shame that Hindley's brewery, Hophurst, doesn't have any outlets in the town, as their beer is very good. John Smiths is k9p and I write as a Yorkshireman. “Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.” Clement Attlee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff9of13 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 And once you get past the "me too" beardie hipsters and their endless IPAs, you will find some brewers making more interesting concoctions, including the kind of light, golden ales that are a good introduction for those wishing to take the next step away from mass-produced lager. You know, the kind of people who see real ale fans as hopelessly middle-aged bores and wouldn't ever consider a foaming pint of something like Owld Cameron's Porky Mouthful. That's it exactly (though I'm rather partial to a good IPA). I'm a regular visitor and, on occasion, volunteer at local beer festivals and the clientèle these days are miles away from your stereotypical real ale fan. Yes there are still a fair few of the beard, sandals and halitosis brigade but there are also plenty of younger people of both sexes. The last beer festival I went to was in St Georges Hall Liverpool last autumn. I was on the train on my way there on the Saturday afternoon when two young ladies boarded the train and sat close by. To look at them and the way they were dressed you'd have thought they were off for an early start on the Saturday night club scene, until I caught a snatch of their conversation. They were off to the same place as me and were discussing the types of beer they were looking forward to. If that's the result of "craft beer" becoming trendy then I'm al for it. BTW the next St Georges Hall Beer Festival is on 28–30 January 2016, I'm "working" the Friday afternoon shift. "it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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