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A great effort...


glemiln

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...despite the odds against a very good full-time team and full time poor officialdom. Only managed some of the commentary (thanks guys) but the exasperation at the decisions was clear to all!  The sin-binning of 3 of ours did little to help the stacked odds.  Guess that Merde was the not only utterance by our coach and following! Hope the injury situation has not not worsened.

Still, we could yet revisit French shores in second place ( hopefully, with better officials) if we win our 2 remaining games and Barrow lose 1.  If they do, we win only 1 and York wins its 4 games we play York, where will depend on points difference.

So lets hope yesterday's spirit can be bottled and replicated and we finish in style and confidence with 33points, Barrow with 31 to face York.

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...despite the odds against a very good full-time team and full time poor officialdom. Only managed some of the commentary (thanks guys) but the exasperation at the decisions was clear to all!  The sin-binning of 3 of ours did little to help the stacked odds.  Guess that Merde was the not only utterance by our coach and following! Hope the injury situation has not not worsened.

Still, we could yet revisit French shores in second place ( hopefully, with better officials) if we win our 2 remaining games and Barrow lose 1.  If they do, we win only 1 and York wins its 4 games we play York, where will depend on points difference.

So lets hope yesterday's spirit can be bottled and replicated and we finish in style and confidence with 33points, Barrow with 31 to face York.

Against what odds ?

Nowt wrong with the officiating, ask any neutral. Jamie Bloem whistled at least three times against Toulouse for some very dodgy looking forward passes. The winning margin could and should have been even higher.

For the coach to say the officials weren't up to such a big clash is ridiculous. Jamie Bloem is just about as experienced as they come and the two linos are well used to the big occasion.

The three yellow cards were justified. They all happened very close to where I was sitting. The first when Taira blatantly held Kuni Minga down making it impossible to play quickly when the Hornets defence were out of position. The second and third cards were for foul and abusive language to the officials, both very blatant offences which were quite rightly yellow carded.

The bad sportmanship by Rochdale was disappointing to say the least, especially when the talk has been of the French being a 'dirty' side. I'm afraid your match commentator and the Chairman were looking at the performance with rose-tinted specs. Yes, the team did give 100% but poor tactical decisions  made the margin of victory much greater than it should have been.

Rochdale were outplayed by a better team, something Kilshaw refused to accept post-match apparently finding it easier to blame the officials instead.

I only hope the tactics change if Rochdale return otherwise the same result is inevitable.

Don't  be swayed by an obviously based commentator, look at the video of the game and make your own mind up.

If the coach wants to know how to beat Toulouse then he shoud ask Gary Thornton or James Ford.

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Against what odds! haha

A semi professional team with an extremely limited budget travelling to France for the first time to play against a full time team in front of 2500 partisan supporters. Erm yeah the odds were pretty much even

And ive heard from players that played and the referree did not have control, using the cards in an attempt to demand the players respect rather than doing that from the start through communication. The on field behaviour from the Toulouse players in Rochdale was disgraceful, purposely going high in tackles after threatening to the tackle previous. Iadmitedly i havnt seen the game in Toulouse but if it was anything like Rochdale it will have been a horrible environment to play in particularly with a ref struggling to keep control.

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Against what odds! haha

A semi professional team with an extremely limited budget travelling to France for the first time to play against a full time team in front of 2500 partisan supporters. Erm yeah the odds were pretty much even

And ive heard from players that played and the referree did not have control, using the cards in an attempt to demand the players respect rather than doing that from the start through communication. The on field behaviour from the Toulouse players in Rochdale was disgraceful, purposely going high in tackles after threatening to the tackle previous. Iadmitedly i havnt seen the game in Toulouse but if it was anything like Rochdale it will have been a horrible environment to play in particularly with a ref struggling to keep control.

Not 2500 partisan speccies, more like 600 pretty well behaved RL fans despite the published figure of 1572. - the published figure includes season ticket holders most of whom are on holiday. That figure also includes the paying speccies present for the other two rugby pitches in the same complex (both RU) games usually. Also many would have been at the Stade Toulousain (RU) game two hours  later just across the road.

Many of the Toulouse players also hold down jobs so for many it's not 'full-time' including Englishman Danny Hulme and the coach who is an extremely busy sheep farmer !

Jamie Bloem had general control but he did make errors on both sides. The three yellows were justified. Bad discipline from Hornets plus ridiculous tactics in the first half cost Hornets dearly.  The way to beat Toulouse isn't by slowing the game down by getting the trainer on after every play. Intelligent teams take the game to the French and reap the rewards but they do tire in the second half due to inferior fitness.

Rochdale were poor but they didn't stop working so credit to them. They were poor due to bad coaching on the day IMO, the players are better than that so i'm hoping they play with more freedom in the final.

I've no idea what happened at Spotland as I wasn't there though i'm willing to believe the 'dirty French ' stories if you say it was so.

And, ha ha...How anyone can entitle a post  'A Great Effort.....' when that team was comprehensively beaten by 40 points beggars belief. Rochdale were second best on the day by a mile which is a pity cos' the players are much better than that and deserved better.

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And, ha ha...How anyone can entitle a post  'A Great Effort.....' when that team was comprehensively beaten by 40 points beggars belief. 

 

Effort is defined as "A vigorous or determined attempt". I wasn't at this match but I have seen Hornets beaten by bigger scores and I have stood to applaud them from the pitch when they have given everything. If a team gives 100% to me that is a great effort irrespective of the result.

 

I wonder when Toulouse or any team get beaten by a large score you will criticise their effort even if they have given their all. 

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Effort is defined as "A vigorous or determined attempt". I wasn't at this match but I have seen Hornets beaten by bigger scores and I have stood to applaud them from the pitch when they have given everything. If a team gives 100% to me that is a great effort irrespective of the result.

 

I wonder when Toulouse or any team get beaten by a large score you will criticise their effort even if they have given their all. 

NB

I have made the following comments in previous posts :

"Yes, the team did give 100%...."

"Rochdale were poor, but they didn't stop working..."

This means I commended them for giving it everything physically. Read the posts and realise what i'm trying to tell you. I don't blame the players particularly, they were second best on the day but, and a big but - they would have done better with more intelligent tactics on the day. The coach go it wrong and the players were following his instructions. This doesn't make him a bad coach just that he got it wrong. In fact, I can't recall a bad Hornets player on the day, they were simply outplayed. More positive play on the day would have seen the 40 points margin reduced to much less and who knows, they may even have surprised the league leaders.

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I think OISEAU is giving an honest opinion of the game as he was there to see the match but more importantly he was giving an unbiased view of what he saw as a neutral spectator.

We have all been to see games that we have no affiliation to only to watch a game of rugby league and quite frankly we see a different game to the home and away supporters.

RUGBY LEAGUE WITHOUT ROCHDALE HORNETS IS LIKE AN UNSHARPENED PENCIL, THERES NO POINT?

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Thanks Pedro for explaining (to oiseau) the definition of my original post.  From my listening to (some of) the audio commentary, it was a great Hornets "effort" given the disparity between the two sides (especially our total part-time & finance status), the 3 sin bins and especially after that home effort against York. After that, a 40 points deficit was unwelcome, but not unexpected given Toulouse's quality and form.   We are going through what is hopefully a blip in form, which happens to best.

Unfortunately, it has come at the business end of the season with, potentially, only 3 games to rectify it.

 

Having now watched the 8 minute resume of the match, no doubt not a microcosm of the whole game, I can reflect further on performance:

 

http://www.to13.com/actualites/to-xiii-vs-rochdale-le-resume-video/

 

Toulouse is a very quick and talented side that's for sure and on the day made us look pedestrian by comparison.  Our attack needs to sharpen.  Our defensive frailty was epitomised by their second try when 4 Hornets players covered the ball player, but nobody the immediate right flank!  Their 3rd try scorer (12) was in front of the attacking kicker (5) in perfect view of Bloem.  The sin bins looked inocuous given some of the tackling from both sides.  Ford was milking the situation to the ref. for the 1st and after the yellow it looked distasteful for Toulouse's (1) to congratulate their winger (5).  The later sin bins could have been dealt with by warnings, not immediate yellows, but Bloem was on a roll!  None was given to Toulouse players - no innocents for sure and the awarding of the Toulouse try, after both teams were warned - ludicrous.  Hopefully, if the two teams meet again it will be full teams, stronger/better officials and less cacophony from that bloody tannoi!

 

Injuries, especially to our backs and the integration of new players has not not helped our recent form. Our coach and players know that we are underperforming and have yet to deliver regularly a full performance with Saturday's effort.

 

There is no time like the remaining games.

 

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I think OISEAU is giving an honest opinion of the game as he was there to see the match but more importantly he was giving an unbiased view of what he saw as a neutral spectator.

We have all been to see games that we have no affiliation to only to watch a game of rugby league and quite frankly we see a different game to the home and away supporters.

You could well be correct. Mr Bird (Peter, by any chance?) may indeed be giving an honest opinion. That doesn't mean it's not biased.

 

I can't help feeling, when I read a report in 'League Express', bias is generally towards the home team, the reporter generally being local or, at least, having 'home' leanings. I don't think they tend to pay reporters to travel, in this division for sure.

 

He mentioned, in another thread that, earlier in the season, Toulouse beat Leigh in the Cup, thus indicating that he rates them quite highly. In my opinion, this really does confirm that they have a greatly superior squad to any other in this division. Superior fitness and skill really do have an effect on the outcome of any competitive contest. Tactics involved in countering such superiority are extremely difficult to master. 

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NB

I have made the following comments in previous posts :

"Yes, the team did give 100%...."

"Rochdale were poor, but they didn't stop working..."

This means I commended them for giving it everything physically. Read the posts and realise what i'm trying to tell you. 

 As I wasn't at the match I can not comment on this particular game and your analysis may be correct. I had read  your previous comments but what I was pointing out was that this statement "And, ha ha...How anyone can entitle a post  'A Great Effort.....' when that team was comprehensively beaten by 40 points beggars belief" seems to relate effort with score. I have no doubt that Toulouse were the better side on the day. If, as you say our tactics were wrong, then fair enough. Maybe our efforts were misplaced but if the players gave their all then that is a great effort in my eyes.

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If the coach wants to know how to beat Toulouse then he shoud ask Gary Thornton or James Ford.

 

Maybe THEY should have a word with Killer, given that both coaches mentioned patently DON'T know how to beat TO - but we at least know how not to lose to them (28-all anyone?)

IMAG0394_zpsvjvgze6q.jpg

 

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H

 

I think OISEAU is giving an honest opinion of the game as he was there to see the match but more importantly he was giving an unbiased view of what he saw as a neutral spectator.
We have all been to see games that we have no affiliation to only to watch a game of rugby league and quite frankly we see a different game to the home and away supporters.

He's hardly neutral, mate - he's their biggest cheerleader/apologist on TRL.

IMAG0394_zpsvjvgze6q.jpg

 

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Many of the Toulouse players also hold down jobs so for many it's not 'full-time' including Englishman Danny Hulme and the coach who is an extremely busy sheep farmer !

 

 

Aussie Fullback Mark Kheirhallah went on the record last month saying that 'only the overseas players are full-time' - at last count TO had 11 overseas players in the squad - which makes for 11 more full-timers than any other team in League 1

IMAG0394_zpsvjvgze6q.jpg

 

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 As I wasn't at the match I can not comment on this particular game and your analysis may be correct. I had read  your previous comments but what I was pointing out was that this statement "And, ha ha...How anyone can entitle a post  'A Great Effort.....' when that team was comprehensively beaten by 40 points beggars belief" seems to relate effort with score. I have no doubt that Toulouse were the better side on the day. If, as you say our tactics were wrong, then fair enough. Maybe our efforts were misplaced but if the players gave their all then that is a great effort in my eyes.

I WAS at the game. Happy to concede that TO are a good side: fast, direct with pace to burn out wide. But it's all the histrionics around their play that drives you nuts. They are a niggly bunch: they leave something in every tackle and have complete control of the ruck as the referee was happy to give them plenty of leeway. And when you offer resistance, they have an embarrassing habit of following the ref around begging for penalties - it's worse than Italian football at times!

 

Jonathan Ford is the biggest culprit. Good player, but such a whining mardarse. To see a bloke who was on the verge of a career with the Roosters reduced to repeatedly pleading for penalties is humiliating - but it clearly gets inside the ref's head.

 

I'm happy to concede that we were beaten by a better team - but it is the manner in which TO win that I find hard to like.

 

The rest of the day was also a bit of an eye-opener. Seen bigger, noisier crowds at Hemel. They hire a band to play for the full 80 minutes - and they sit directly behind the away dug-out so that players can't hear the bench. They play recorded crowd noise and chanting over the tannoy to create 'atmosphere'. The Tannoy guy single handedly chants 'TO: TO: TO' when they're attacking (about half a dozen fans reciprocate).  And they play music during breaks in play for scrums or injuries - anything to mask the pitiful silence of their fans.

IMAG0394_zpsvjvgze6q.jpg

 

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H

 

He's hardly neutral, mate - he's their biggest cheerleader/apologist on TRL.

In that case, short of being present at the game, it's impossible to get an unbiased report of proceedings

RUGBY LEAGUE WITHOUT ROCHDALE HORNETS IS LIKE AN UNSHARPENED PENCIL, THERES NO POINT?

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H

 

He's hardly neutral, mate - he's their biggest cheerleader/apologist on TRL.

Firstly - I am an RL nut, my nearest RL team in France is at Villeneuve which is about 3 1/2 hours drive from me. I follow Villeneuve in the French Elite season ie october-april roughly. I am NOT a Villeneuve supporter.

In the summer my nearest RL club is  Toulouse which is 4 hours drive from my house. It's great being able to see the English clubs again. I am NOT a Toulouse supporter either.

In the UK my nearest club was Doncaster. I had to travel from Gt Yarmouth to see them so, quite a hike as i'm sure you can appreciate. I am NOT a Donny supporter though my late wife was.

I am actually a Saints supporter since 1967.

Glad to clear that up.

Secondly - I have watched York play Toulouse twice this season and I have also watched Donny play Toulouse twice this season, home and away.

In the first York game York attacked and took the game to Toulouse and looked as though they could produce an upset for the first hour. They then tired with the heat and superior French fitness. They ended up losing by 38 points but were not 38 points worse In the second game they played the same tactics and took the game to the French. They only had 14 fit players available and carried 2 half-fit lads one of whom they lost early on. They only lost by 30 points which was remarkable what with the heat etc.

The home game against Donny saw Thornton take the game to Toulouse. They were dangerous as they matched them for speed and fitness for an hour finally losing out in the last 20 quarter due to the heat and fitness levels. They only lost by 20 which was a 'great effort'. The Donny home game against Toulouse a couple of weeks back was a similar story with Donny taking the game to the French and looking really dangerous with the positive approach. They lost again by 20 points.

Rochdale came to Toulouse with almost perfect English conditions for RL. The pitch was quite heavy due to the rain earlier and the temperature was 'only' 22°, probably the coolest summer day for years. They decided to play tactics to slow the game down to disrupt the Toulouse speed and flair. The plan backfired as Toulouse upped the pace in the second half with crisper passing and sluggish marking allowing the French to score at will. Despite the low temperature and the slow pace Rochdale looked knackered after the first half antics. They looked at least 40 points worse than the French.

Kilshaw is obviously a decent coach so I hope his team will be more positive for the final in order to give his team a chance of upsetting the odds. It's obvious most of the players should be playing at a higher level..

I agree with your opinion of a 'niggly team'. They have periods of the game where they seem to lose concentration, usually when being attacked at speed with errors creeping in. They do make a lot of errors when under pressure, probably due to the amount of inexperience in the team. Playing a slow game actually suits them as they have loads of time to regroup.

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Firstly - I am an RL nut, my nearest RL team in France is at Villeneuve which is about 3 1/2 hours drive from me. I follow Villeneuve in the French Elite season ie october-april roughly. I am NOT a Villeneuve supporter.

In the summer my nearest RL club is  Toulouse which is 4 hours drive from my house. It's great being able to see the English clubs again. I am NOT a Toulouse supporter either.

In the UK my nearest club was Doncaster. I had to travel from Gt Yarmouth to see them so, quite a hike as i'm sure you can appreciate. I am NOT a Donny supporter though my late wife was.

I am actually a Saints supporter since 1967.

Glad to clear that up.

Secondly - I have watched York play Toulouse twice this season and I have also watched Donny play Toulouse twice this season, home and away.

In the first York game York attacked and took the game to Toulouse and looked as though they could produce an upset for the first hour. They then tired with the heat and superior French fitness. They ended up losing by 38 points but were not 38 points worse In the second game they played the same tactics and took the game to the French. They only had 14 fit players available and carried 2 half-fit lads one of whom they lost early on. They only lost by 30 points which was remarkable what with the heat etc.

The home game against Donny saw Thornton take the game to Toulouse. They were dangerous as they matched them for speed and fitness for an hour finally losing out in the last 20 quarter due to the heat and fitness levels. They only lost by 20 which was a 'great effort'. The Donny home game against Toulouse a couple of weeks back was a similar story with Donny taking the game to the French and looking really dangerous with the positive approach. They lost again by 20 points.

Rochdale came to Toulouse with almost perfect English conditions for RL. The pitch was quite heavy due to the rain earlier and the temperature was 'only' 22°, probably the coolest summer day for years. They decided to play tactics to slow the game down to disrupt the Toulouse speed and flair. The plan backfired as Toulouse upped the pace in the second half with crisper passing and sluggish marking allowing the French to score at will. Despite the low temperature and the slow pace Rochdale looked knackered after the first half antics. They looked at least 40 points worse than the French.

Kilshaw is obviously a decent coach so I hope his team will be more positive for the final in order to give his team a chance of upsetting the odds. It's obvious most of the players should be playing at a higher level..

I agree with your opinion of a 'niggly team'. They have periods of the game where they seem to lose concentration, usually when being attacked at speed with errors creeping in. They do make a lot of errors when under pressure, probably due to the amount of inexperience in the team. Playing a slow game actually suits them as they have loads of time to regroup.

Agree about the crowd atmosphere too.  However, the band move  usually sit at the very top of the stand just as they did last saturday so quite a way from the 'Away' dugout and only a few metres further  from the 'Home' dugout so that argument doesn't work i'm afraid.

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I knew when I saw Toulouse play at Spotland that the return game would be " interesting " and would need a TOP official to keep control.

Every time Hornets got on a roll on attack some sort of flare up would break out and momentum would be lost. As mentioned earlier Ford seemed to think he had to referee the game as well as play. He pulled the oldest trick in the book- kick the ball forward and run directly into your nearest opponent ! When Hornets got on top they turned distinctly nasty.

To quote Corporal Jones " They didn't like it up them ".

To the people with long memories of the other code it was like watching Estudiantes De La Plata in the old days.

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I knew when I saw Toulouse play at Spotland that the return game would be " interesting " and would need a TOP official to keep control.

Every time Hornets got on a roll on attack some sort of flare up would break out and momentum would be lost. As mentioned earlier Ford seemed to think he had to referee the game as well as play. He pulled the oldest trick in the book- kick the ball forward and run directly into your nearest opponent ! When Hornets got on top they turned distinctly nasty.

To quote Corporal Jones " They didn't like it up them ".

To the people with long memories of the other code it was like watching Estudiantes De La Plata in the old days.

 

Estudiantes, now there's a name from the past in the days of my youth I remember me and Diddy Dave watching them at Old Trafford in the world Club Championship. Nobby Stiles had got sent off in Argentina. I don't think I had seen a more dirtier team before or after. I remember one of them whacking George Best, who retaliated. Then the Argentine went down like a bag of cement, and of George went of. So they must be one hell of a nasty team.

A large VAT Dave please.

Allso known as Teodozjusz Matuschanskavasky

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Estudiantes, now there's a name from the past in the days of my youth I remember me and Diddy Dave watching them at Old Trafford in the world Club Championship. Nobby Stiles had got sent off in Argentina. I don't think I had seen a more dirtier team before or after. I remember one of them whacking George Best, who retaliated. Then the Argentine went down like a bag of cement, and of George went of. So they must be one hell of a nasty team.

You need to go on YouTube and watch some of their other games. Try the ones against AC Milan in 1969. They took gamesmanship and violent play to another level.

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I dont need to go on you tube, I was commenting on the game I SAW, I didn't see the Milan game . So I couldn't possibly comment on it.

I was suggesting you may be interested in watching the Milan games. I saw both the games v Utd on TV. As I'd backed whoever the South American champions were to win ages before the games I wasn't too put out. I was expecting the likes of Santos or Penarol. I'd never heard of Estudiantes.

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Terrible game that Estudiantes one,but they came to do a job and they did! But let me get this straight:Toulouse are the only fully professional club in the division,is that right? If so,that`s nothing but a complete joke and the other clubs should`ve refused to take the field. How is that a level playing field,literally? But don`t tell me,they`re deliberately propped up so the Froggies have two teams in Super League (eventually),and as per usual,original clubs (like Hornets) can go and get stuffed. I suppose Toronto Trotters or whatever crackpot name they`ll have,will be given the same amounts of largesse. Great idea this expansion,eh?

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