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By what benchmark should we gauge RL's success or failure?


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One way or another a fair proportion of the posts on here are related to the questions - is RL succeeding/growing or not? (Related to this are posts suggesting how to make it more successful or responding to initiatives to grow success - eg Cumbria today), but do we have a benchmark for this? Realistically what are we striving for, which sports do we compare our selves with?

 

To give some examples compared to other sports I like (cricket and speedway) RL looks pretty strong. Compared to top flight football (I would just about include my club Reading FC in that) we don't but is our objective to be on a par with Prem/Championship footy?

 

There are other measures of success:

 

- media interest

- public awareness

- crowds

- sponsorship

- financial stability

- national/international reach

- numbers playing

- celebrity interest

- historical comparison (if so, when?)

 

and lots more I am sure.

 

We often discuss whether TGG is thriving or dying without having a realistic view of what we should be achieving.

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the game certainly isn't thriving - especially at the amateur level.

 

In fact, takeaway the Sky TV money and the professional game would be bankrupt.

 

There seem to be some very progressive clubs in Manchester, although playing at a very low level at present there is the scope to build and develop. The city of Manchester in my opinion has always been a wasted opportunity, as there is a huge affinity for rugby league in the city due to the number of high profile games played there over the years.

 

On the flip side, there are the traditional rugby league areas such as Cumbria, Oldham etc. where the game has been in continual decline professionally and at amateur level for the last 30 years.

 

 

We have to get the amateur game booming again, which will in turn start to produce quality players at professional level.

 

In an ideal world, the RFL would have a team of 6-8 development officers who would work as a team to target areas of potential growth, or areas that just need a lift and deliver a RL based programme in the local schools over a 3 month period while also working with the local amateur clubs to help develop their coaches, social media work and anything else that could be linked to building RL participation in that area.

 

In an area like Cumbria, 4 officers could target Allerdale and Copeland schools and amateur clubs with 2 covering Barrow.

 

By having a group of development officers all working in one area on a pre-approved programme, would mean that all schools and clubs in the area would get ample attention, as opposed to the occasional visit every 6 months from one over stretched development officer.

 

In an area like Oldham - 4 officers could develop the programme over a 3 month period etc, once they deliver the programme they move onto the next area and deliver the same programme up and down the country.

 

This development work would have to be monitored with regular follow up visits over a 6-12 month period.

 

This would have been a better way of managing the game rather than the scatter gun approach of having one development officer looking after half a county and 20 towns.

 

This would be a cheaper and more intense way of developing the sport and would be much easier to gather results.

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Whatever benchmark you set, half the people on here will deem it to be a failure - its the nature of this forum

"half" - you optimist!  :biggrin:

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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We currently are enjoying the lowest profile in the last 40 years, at least in the traditional print media, while at the same time getting excited by people who share their passing interest on things like Twitter.

The traditional print media (with its entrenched agendas) is currently enjoying its lowest relevance and popularity in the last 100+ years, whilst at the same time, the internet and especially social media is becoming more and more relevant to public consciousness.

 

Rugby league fans, ahead of the curve as usual, have been relying on non-traditional sources for news for years. Okay, we didn't exactly have a choice, but still...

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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The traditional print media (with its entrenched agendas) is currently enjoying its lowest relevance and popularity in the last 100+ years, whilst at the same time, the internet and especially social media is becoming more and more relevant to public consciousness.

 

Rugby league fans, ahead of the curve as usual, have been relying on non-traditional sources for news for years. Okay, we didn't exactly have a choice, but still...

Sneezing pandas do very well from social medial. RL however, I have yet to see it translate into something tenable.

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"In fact, takeaway the Sky TV money and the professional game would be bankrupt."

 

Death to the Rah Rahs, I don't think this would be a criteria for failure because almost every sport with Sky money would go under

without it! I do enjoy writing your avatar name!

 

EssexRL  Those 4 would do me because they are critical to the cause

  media interest

- public awareness

- crowds

- sponsorship

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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The state of the amateur game varies at every level. At junior and schools there are more playing than at any time in history. But the level transferring to open age is diminishing in the heartlands. This is down to lots of factors out of the RFL control. I see in Warrington more school children playing at school and at clubs but the open age teams are treading water.

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The only measure of success is money.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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"In fact, takeaway the Sky TV money and the professional game would be bankrupt."

Death to the Rah Rahs, I don't think this would be a criteria for failure because almost every sport with Sky money would go under

without it! I do enjoy writing your avatar name!

would you believe I once had my account on totalrl forum suspended as someone took exception to my username!!

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would you believe I once had my account on totalrl forum suspended as someone took exception to my username!!

NO! Really? I can't for the life of understand why Total RL would act in that way. What possible motivation could they have?

You must be Totally mistaken there!

 

Bench mark for success mmmmmm?

 

How about a unified voice? Across the game and the globe. What do you think Death to the very nice people from a much maligned, misinterpreted and misunderstood sport? Doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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I would venture to suggest that the sport that rugby league is closest to in terms of demographics is ice hockey. Both are tough sports that place an emphasis on speed and skill. At the highest level in the UK both have their heartlands in the North (there is no club in the Elite League southeast of Coventry Blaze), yet have one outpost across a stretch of water (for Catalan Dragons, read Belfast Giants). The fans of each sport could be interchangeable, no airs and graces, friendly, knowledgeable, loud and parochial; for Sheffield Steelers and Nottingham Panthers fans the results of their meetings define their season. The Elite league still retains licensing with no opportunity for promotion, entry is by invitation only. Despite this several clubs have struggled with finances or finding a suitable arena and either closed or dropped into a lower division.

 

Internationally, the biggest league the NHL,(who play to their own set of rules) plays a predominate role and IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation) tournaments are subordinate to the demands of the NHL clubs. Thus the only NHL players released to play in the annual World Championships are those whose clubs have been eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs, even so many offered selection to their national team will make their excuses and withdraw. Even the Winter Olympics is not exempt from the shortsightedness of the NHL clubs, it is looking probable that NHL players will not be released for the next Games in South Korea. Talking of South Korea they are currently stuffing their national side with as many Canadians as they can find willing to live in Asia for a couple of years in order to qualify for a Korean passport. International development is steady but like rugby league, the pace of development has been increasing in recent years. Ice hockey is no longer the preserve of the Arctic countries, rinks have been built in some of the oil rich states and international tournaments staged.

 

So how do rugby league and ice hockey compare in the UK? By most measures rugby league wins easily.

Registered players, Google gives 5000 for ice hockey and nearly 300,000 for rugby league

Fans attending, average attendance in Elite League 2,000 best supported clubs Nottingham Panthers 5,700 and Sheffield Steelers 5,000 Most Super League clubs average way more than this, Leeds Rhinos average 15,000. Caveat only 3 Elite League sides play in arena that have a 4,000+ capacity. Sheffield is highest with 8,000 capacity.

 

TV coverage NHL, Elite League and some internationals all on Premier Sports, Rugby League 2-3 live Superleague Games on Sky Sports, highlights, Challenge Cup and England internationals on BBC, NRL and non-England internationals on Premier Sports.

 

Radio coverage Elite League local radio stations only, Superleague BBC 5 Live, Talk Sport and Local radio

Press coverage Elite League local titles only Superleague Patchy, regular but basic coverage by Guardian Mirror Sun and Metro plus local titles, ignored by all other titles.

 

Player recognition Ice Hockey- can you name any GB international player past or present? Thought not, in Rugby League it is low but the average person in the street might have heard of Martin Offiah, Jason Robinson or Kevin Sinfield.

 

Marketing efforts Ice hockey non existent, despite having been to several events in Nottingham and Sheffield did not have my email details captured. Have also attended several IIHF World championships where I paid for my tickets months in advance and supplied my home address and email address, yet have never been contacted about future championships or ticket purchases. Yet I receive regular emails and mailshots from the RFL promoting future events and stating how I can buy tickets. Similarly I receive a couple of emails a week from Warrington Wolves which are punchy and lay out very clearly what games I can attend in the next month.

www.twitter.com/flyingking2

 

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To start, I'd be interested to see quantifiable facts. No narrative, just numbers over a 10/15 year period.

 

Attendances

Sponsorship

Column Inches?

Playing numbers

Geography?

 

Anecdotal, but i dont reckon we'd be progressing in many of these criteria.

 

Do the RFL have objectives? What are they?

Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation:

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Unless its a bad news story such as points deduction,drugs,"Flower incident,dogs etc,we don,t seem to get the recognition in both the written and digital form we deserve.

Fair comparisons would be with county cricket,Scottish football,the 2 x championships in rugby-all of which we seem to come up short.

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The traditional print media (with its entrenched agendas) is currently enjoying its lowest relevance and popularity in the last 100+ years, whilst at the same time, the internet and especially social media is becoming more and more relevant to public consciousness.

 

Rugby league fans, ahead of the curve as usual, have been relying on non-traditional sources for news for years. Okay, we didn't exactly have a choice, but still...

See? Futtocks - when he can be r'sd - can be serious beyond his norm.

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It may of been mentioned on here before but for me the best comparison we can make is with boxing and mma. I've watched mma for years back when the ufc was on bravo free to view with the basic sky/cable package. Back then nobody in the street could of told you the name of any mma fighter,the sport was peecived by the boxing community as un sportsman like,brutal and in alot of states in the US it was bannned. Sound familiar?

The rfl should be looking at the mms/ufc model and taking note. Look at the success of the sport now. It has famous fighters, massive pay per view figures and I would say most people in the genral public have heard about it or seen a fight or two. Compare that to boxing and apart from the very recent heavy weight fights there hasn't been alot of exciting, popular fights in a long time.

Mma has come so far in such a relatively short time and from a very similar background to rugby league it's my view that big steps can be made with a good product and good management.

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A thousand times, no.

 

Comparison x y and chuffing z.

 

The 1st step is to compare how we are doing against what we've done previously. Then we can start to add context such as tv audiences, sponsorship as a share of the market.

Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation:

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas

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It may of been mentioned on here before but for me the best comparison we can make is with boxing and mma. I've watched mma for years back when the ufc was on bravo free to view with the basic sky/cable package. Back then nobody in the street could of told you the name of any mma fighter,the sport was peecived by the boxing community as un sportsman like,brutal and in alot of states in the US it was bannned. Sound familiar?

The rfl should be looking at the mms/ufc model and taking note. Look at the success of the sport now. It has famous fighters, massive pay per view figures and I would say most people in the genral public have heard about it or seen a fight or two. Compare that to boxing and apart from the very recent heavy weight fights there hasn't been alot of exciting, popular fights in a long time.

Mma has come so far in such a relatively short time and from a very similar background to rugby league it's my view that big steps can be made with a good product and good management.

I agree with your comparison to MMA but sadly the people who run our sport think over sanitising it will have soccer mums the world over in rolling there precious little ones in RL (WRONG), what it has done is turn plenty of fans away and the ones I know now are massive MMA fans with little interest in the sport they once loved. 

I don't agree however with your take on boxing, Floyd Mayweather (Light Middleweight) was up until his recent retirement the biggest deal in fight sports hands down the pay per view numbers & general revenue he brought in where incredible and should not be down played.

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Financial vibrancy

Increased Gates

Increased Sponsorship

Increased Participation

Greater FT playing pool

Wider Media exposure

 

Build on strengths, expand when the opportunity comes ie Toulouse and Toronto. The opportunity must be well funded, thought out with a 2/3 year entry date and a multi million pound bond placed with the RFL. They should go straight into SL2 in a two tens structure with P&R.

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I agree with your comparison to MMA but sadly the people who run our sport think over sanitising it will have soccer mums the world over in rolling there precious little ones in RL (WRONG), what it has done is turn plenty of fans away and the ones I know now are massive MMA fans with little interest in the sport they once loved.

I don't agree however with your take on boxing, Floyd Mayweather (Light Middleweight) was up until his recent retirement the biggest deal in fight sports hands down the pay per view numbers & general revenue he brought in where incredible and should not be down played.

Maywether equals lots of hype and no action. Very similar to rugby union. His last fight was like watching an episode of strictly come dancing.

I still stand by what I said. MMA came from nowhere and has become massive, so there is no reason rugby league couldn't do the same. We just have get the sport out there so people know it exsists and how entertaining it is.

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Maywether equals lots of hype and no action. Very similar to rugby union. His last fight was like watching an episode of strictly come dancing.

I still stand by what I said. MMA came from nowhere and has become massive, so there is no reason rugby league couldn't do the same. We just have get the sport out there so people know it exsists and how entertaining it is.

First of all, Jimmy, I hate Strictly but don't insult it by saying it's on a par with watching funny onion.

 

But this bit " ,,,,,came from nowhere and has become massive, so there is no reason rugby league couldn't do the same. We just have get the sport out there so people know it exists and how entertaining it is." is the essential area that needs addressing for our sport!

What we need is a Max Clifford type person(obviously not Max himself) someone who can sell people who have no talent and few saving graces. For someone like tthat selling TGG would be a doddle.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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Maywether equals lots of hype and no action. Very similar to rugby union. His last fight was like watching an episode of strictly come dancing.

I still stand by what I said. MMA came from nowhere and has become massive, so there is no reason rugby league couldn't do the same. We just have get the sport out there so people know it exsists and how entertaining it is.

The idea of Boxing is to hit and not be hit, Mayweather did this better than anyone I've ever seen & I've seen a lot of fighters & was raised in a family where Boxing (And RL) where religion. MMA fighters lack brains & fall into the thug category but there is no denying it is popular with the masses just not as popular as Mayweathers fights at the tail end of his career like it or not that's a fact mate.

 

Sorry for derailing the thread.

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All professional and semi professional clubs need to get their crowds rising every year along with their cash turnover and profit.

They do need proper business plans to reach the above goals.

Yes they do and I've no evidence either way on the matter, do they have a game plan?

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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