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Interesting Interview with Wales RL CEO


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Wales RL CEO Chris Thair

We found this interview quite special. The insight and detail provided was incredibly intriguing and we can't thank Chris enough. Feel free to share on other forums if you like. We currently only have a representation on this forum due to the respect we hold for Total RL and what they do for the British game.

5 Questions with ERL: Wales Rugby League - Rygbi Cynghrair Cymru

We spoke with Chris Thair from WRL recently about rugby league in Wales, what their goals are and where they're heading.

1. Tell us a bit about your country

Wales is a mighty proud small Celtic nation sitting to the East of England on the map and a country of 3 million people which is also part of the UK and Great Britain. With a green and mountainous landscape the majority of the population reside in the northern or southern edges of the country. The Welsh people are renowned for their passion and humour. Many famous Welsh people have reached the top of their global profession, these include footballers Ryan Giggs and Gareth Bale, poet Dylan Thomas, author Roald Dahl, singers Tom Jones and Shirley Bassey and actor Anthony Hopkins

The Welsh flag with the famous red dragon is the most prominent form of symbolism however the Prince of Wales Feathers (aka 3 feathers) is also a symbol of great pride as it appears on the jersey of both codes of rugby. Rugby Union is seen as a symbol of Welsh identity and an expression of national consciousness. In Wales, union’s roots are embedded in working class mining communities and very much differs to the sports origins in England, this certainly adds to the rivalry.

2. How long has RL been played in your country?

Since the very start of rugby league’s formation in 1895 Welsh rugby union players have been signed by English clubs and ‘gone North’ to play professionally in the other code. Indeed many of the sports greatest ever stars have been Welsh, reflected in Gus Risman and Billy Boston, both from Cardiff being two of the five players on the new Rugby League statue recently unveiled outside Wembley Stadium.

Welsh players have always signed in sufficient numbers for professional clubs, for Wales to have a very competitive international team. Wales played the sport’s first ever international under Northern Union rules in January 1908 defeating the New Zealand All Golds 9-8 in Aberdare, South Wales and have played many internationals since. Winners of 7 European Cups and semi finalists in 2 World Cups, the country has an illustrious past.

Domestically in Wales the sports growth has been sporadic, only achieving any sustained continuity in the last 15 years since the formation of the Welsh Conference in 2003. This domestic club competition was born out of two recently formed Welsh clubs that played in English competition (Cardiff formed 2001 and Swansea 2002), ex pro’s who had moved back home and enthusiasts from university rugby league which had been played in Wales from the 1980s. Champions of the 2016 Welsh Conference, Bridgend Blue Bulls RLFC, have won nine of the 14 championships to become the most successful community club ever in Wales.

Two welsh clubs joined the Northern Union in 1907 and by 1908 there were sufficient numbers for a separate Welsh league however by 1910 this had folded. This failed attempt to establish the sport in Wales is reflected in very similar stories from the 1920s, 40s, 50s and 80s, a short burst of success and then nothing. Apart from the Welsh universities and one men’s team in North Wales, the sad realisation was that during those magical moments in the 2000 Rugby League World Cup semi final where Wales nearly beat the mighty Australia, domestically there was very little rugby league being played in Wales. The RFL recognised this and invested in growing the sport in Wales by employing a fulltime Development Officer. Since this point rugby league in Wales has been growing and in 2006 ‘Wales Rugby League’ was officially recognised by the Welsh Sports Council as the official National Governing Body and went on to become full members of the RLIF and RLEF. At present around 6000 people play annually in Wales, 1500 with clubs and over 5000 in schools. Wales also has two professional rugby league clubs in the European competition ran by the RFL.

3. What are you most in need of the help the game grow?

We are most in need of investment, a home, an agreed long term international calendar for the sport and good governance; and probably in that order.

In life you tend to get out of things what you put in. Good levels of investment allows for the resources and systems to be put in place which would ensure the sport grows. The sport in Wales is living proof of this however in recent years we have been operating under lowering levels of grant aid. This is similar to everybody else in and outside of sport in this time of economic austerity so we have adapted and just worked smarter with what we have. We are now a lot more commercially focused, underpinned by strong levels of governance and financial management.

No rugby league entity in Wales such as WRL or a club owns or runs their own facility. Hundreds of different facilities throughout Wales have been used over the last 15 years and many clubs, professional and community, have continued to move grounds. This has not helped the sports growth and not allowed long term partnerships to develop in communities. The sport needs to change this nomadic existence and WRL and its clubs are aware of this challenge. The clubs are now thinking long term trying to source assets, and so are we as a National Governing Body. WRL ran 17 representative teams last year and numerous courses, meetings, festivals and finals. If WRL became primary tenants on a facility which could also play host to a community and a professional club then there would be sufficient activity to make such a venture work. More importantly it would allow the sport to establish some deep roots in a community and some long term partnerships.

Outside of each nations control, there are two fundamental things which will ensure the international game continues to grow; A successful 2017 Rugby League World Cup and establishing an agreed long term international calendar of events. From this everything will cascade down beginning with broadcast deals, sponsorship and a much improved environment for each nation to operate under.

I mention good governance last on the list as I feel we currently have this at Wales Rugby League and if we didn’t it would be much higher up on the list of what we need. If people go to the Wales Rugby League website and click on “about us” and then “governance” you will see through the annual reports and other documents that we are now doing well in this area. Good governance is essential and is the self responsibility every organisation should take. Personally I feel it is the sports biggest downfall and has been the most detrimental factor to its growth.

Regardless of competition structure how much stronger would the sport be in the UK if no club in the last 30 years had entered an insolvency event and been managed in a responsible manner.

Wales Rugby League was no better and was certainly insolvent on paper when I came into post in May 2013 as it had six figures worth of debt and an unsustainable operation. A lot of great work also took place before 2013 however it was quickly undone by poor governance and financial mismanagement.

When organisations get into such a mess, it takes years to recover and growth is stifled. I’m extremely proud of our record since this point of insolvency in 2013 however I would rather these things weren’t required. The sport in Wales would be much better off now if the time and energy put into the change process was put into other areas however there’s been no other choice. We still have much to do however have plans and a solid foundation from which to build. Since 2013 we have posted annual reports and accounts showing 3 years of profits, participated in a World Cup, set a new attendance record for the national team, won a European Cup, a Wheelchair Celtic Cup, run 17 representative teams, saved the two Welsh professional clubs - taking over one for two seasons, breaking the clubs all time attendance record during this time and providing a large loan to the other – run domestic school and club competitions, courses and established some financial reserves for the first time ever. There is a lot of good work to build upon and optimism for the future!

4. What are the biggest challenges that you face?

Acquiring investment, the fragility of the clubs and progression planning are probably the three biggest challenges we face.

Qualifying later this year for the 2017 World Cup would be catalyst for new investment, indeed offers are already on the table for when we do however we could be smarter elsewhere. Registration fees and membership schemes are all planned for the future however the biggest thing would be to turn the men’s international programme into a profit centre. Good levels of sponsorship and gate receipts from an international would ensure that programme is paid for in full and the surplus could be invested elsewhere in the business i.e. community game and junior pathway. At present that is not the case however the cash reserves could ensure a home international takes place in 2018 which is a game changer.

The fragility of the clubs is something we are trying to change. The two professional clubs are now under solid management and we are working with the community clubs to ensure they get more depth and quality to their operations. When coming into post no club in Wales operated with more three teams and many with just one team. We have worked on this in recent years and a lot more is planned.

Progression planning is a challenge to any business however it is more of an issue when you are a small. Many clubs are linked to one or two key individuals and it is similar at the NGB. I feel we are becoming more attractive as a sport, which helps and we have spoken to many clubs about this subject. Getting that key individual to mentor others instead of doing it all themselves. Progression planning is a challenge that will never go away.

5. What is your dream scenario 10 years from now?

In 2026 following WRL putting four teams in the 2025 Rugby League World Cup, a men’s, women’s, students and wheelchair team, the domestic club league shown weekly on S4C reaches new levels of participation, exposure and sponsorship following Wales reaching the previous year’s World Cup Final.

One of the three professional clubs in Wales is in Super League and the other two are packed full of Welsh talent coming through the system.

Following regular attendances over 10,000 for internationals in recent years, a near capacity crowd in 2024 at the Cardiff City FC Stadium and a successful 2025 World Cup; WRL take their first home international of 2026 to the Millennium Stadium.

At WRL’s new permanent home in South Wales there is a feeling true optimism over the future and 10,000 people are signed up WRL members along to join the ride. WRL engage over 100,000 more people on a weekly basis through fun, thought provoking and action packed social media and video content; a handful of which have gone viral and reached over a million.

Following the long term partnership with Wales Rugby League, over half of the Super League clubs have Welsh talent as regulars in their first team.

Thanks for speaking with us Chris, all the best

Follow WRL's progress below:

Website: http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WalesRugbyLeague/?fref=ts

Thought this deserved it's own thread, very interesting and in depth read on the state of the game in Wales from the WRL CEO.

Looks like things are coming along there slowly but surely after many false dawns, they seem to be building things the right way. I would love even just some of those dreams become a reality, very ambitious but hopefully there are some strong business heads behind that ambition.

Always thought WRL should be aiming to build a strong home base in Cardiff, playing at least 1-2 Internationals there a year at Cardiff Arms Park (or a bigger venue if the demand is ever there) and having a Cardiff based team entering League 1 with a short-medium term goal of Championship and medium-long term goal of Super League.

The part about having Welsh players in all SL teams is a big one as well, even if Wales never have another SL team they could still build a competitive National team through this method, I hope they aim on building the pathways for this to happen. I quite like the idea of an annual Under 18 regional rep mini-league featuring West, South & North Wales followed by Junior Internationals against strong opposition every year to really get Welsh kids in the spotlight.

I've said it before, say it again, a tri series mid-year with England, France & Wales needs to be seriously looked at.

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