RUGBY FOOTBALL LODGE

[MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION]

The fact is whether people like it or not in Rugby League towns there are going to be a proportion of the local masons who are rugby league supporters and are going to turn up and support their local team.

What annoys me is that if doubts were raised against any other grouping of people being suitable rugby league supporters then people on here would be up in arms - if people want to use google for info on the masons then type in anti masonry and see what comes up - Hitler persecuted freemasons almost as severely as the jews do people however ignorant of the actual facts about the masons really want to be associated with views held by the nazi's.

[Shadow]

.........Hitler persecuted freemasons almost as severely as the jews do people however ignorant of the actual facts about the masons really want to be associated with views held by the nazi's.

The problem with this argument is that it's rubbish as an argument and has only a nodding acquaintance with reality.

Hitler had the first Autobahns built, doesn't mean I'm going to avoid the M3 today because of the association with Nazis, Hitler persecuted Travellers and Gypsies, doesn't mean I'm going to welcome them onto my front garden, Hitler persecuted Freemasons, doesn't stop it being a childish gang of underachieving middle managers trying to bring some added pomposity to their already self important little lives.

By the way, whilst you're in the mood for Google have a look at Godwin's Law

[paley]

Big multi-cultural do, was it?

Were the men allowed to take their partners?

I couldn't help noticing the huge proportion of females and kids at the cup final last week. Are these masonic events family friendly? I might come along one night and bring my wife and kids if its good fun.

The Lions dinners have tended to be single sex affairs - when I attended with Zoe some of the Lions weren't too keen - Garry Schofield made his dismay known.

[Severus]

Sadly looking on the internet and taking whatever garbage is there as fact is rather naive,

It certainly isn't discriminatory as anyone can join regardless of race or religion the only prerequisite is to believe in a supreme being

You say you do not discriminate and then state that you discriminate against athiests and multi-theists in the same sentence.

My only personal experience of the masons was to attend a charity BBQ this summer (a friends father is a mason). Fair play they raised a lot of money for a childrens charity. However, the right wing sentiments and racism on display made it an unpleasant experience. I am being prejudiced against masons here but seeing as to become one you have to be recommended and approved by an existing member, I can easily see how these views would be rife within this group.

[RidingPie]

Hrmm 2nd post and its about Masonry not rugby... nevermind!

I'm 35 now, about 10 years ago I was well in to my conspiracy theories, and believed in the masonry/illuminati connection, bilderberg running, well just about everything, alien abductions. Since then, and fortunately for my sanity I've become a skeptic and now whenever I see a ridiculous claim I have a quick look at the other side of the argument.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because the freemasonrywatch website that was being held up earlier in the thread as some sort of authority on Freemasonry was part of that evolution. Basically the guy who writes that site has his own agenda and chip on his shoulder that probably weighs a tonne. If you want to see the other side of the argument I recommend the website

MasonicInfo

and it clearly shows that no Obama isn't a Mason. (would it really make any difference if he was?)

[Rubber Schnib]

The problem with this argument is that it's rubbish as an argument

I'm going to use that in future.

[West Country Eagle]

One of my close family members was recently invited to become a freemason. He told them to whistle.

Good lad

Mind you, he does occasionally play union, wants to buy a landrover and is surrounded by rightwing loons, so he would probably fit right in should he ever change his mind.

[Severus]

Mind you, he does occasionally play union... so he would probably fit right in should he ever change his mind.

Watch it you

[West Country Eagle]

Watch it you

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I should also add that he plays RL regularly.

[Leeds Wire]

The fact is whether people like it or not in Rugby League towns there are going to be a proportion of the local masons who are rugby league supporters and are going to turn up and support their local team.

What annoys me is that if doubts were raised against any other grouping of people being suitable rugby league supporters then people on here would be up in arms - if people want to use google for info on the masons then type in anti masonry and see what comes up - Hitler persecuted freemasons almost as severely as the jews do people however ignorant of the actual facts about the masons really want to be associated with views held by the nazi's.

Your argument quoted here is irrelevant and also quite bizarre to be frank. If a proportion of RL fans are masons, then so what? And what on earth has Hitler got to do with it?

Why not address the issues many people have with freemasons rather than post disingenuous reports of your charitable activities?

I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories whatsoever about freemasonry but I object vehemently to its fundamental ethos of excluding "non-believers" and, of course, women.

Your movement is archaic, anachronistic and objectionable. I wouldn't want it to be associated with 21st century rugby league, but thankfully freemasonry is dying out anyway (in terms of numbers of paid up members) so we won't have to accommodate it much longer anyway.

[MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION]

Your argument quoted here is irrelevant and also quite bizarre to be frank. If a proportion of RL fans are masons, then so what? And what on earth has Hitler got to do with it?

Why not address the issues many people have with freemasons rather than post disingenuous reports of your charitable activities?

I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories whatsoever about freemasonry but I object vehemently to its fundamental ethos of excluding "non-believers" and, of course, women.

Your movement is archaic, anachronistic and objectionable. I wouldn't want it to be associated with 21st century rugby league, but thankfully freemasonry is dying out anyway (in terms of numbers of paid up members) so we won't have to accommodate it much longer anyway.

Because you're saying that you don't want masons to be associated with RL and you couldn't get away with making such a statement against other groupings of people,if you read the earlier posts you will see that there are masonic lodges which admit women and bar men also there are a grouping of lodges who admit both women and men.

You have made a lot of claims about the order but clearly have no idea at all about what masonry actually is, a lot of people tend become very irate about freemasonry - why? To the people who are actually in it its just a hobby like any other -some people will love it and some won't - but archaic,anachronistic and objectionable - in what way,i've met and befriended people from different cultures and walks of life through freemasonry where normally our paths would never had crossed.

Your claim that you are glad masons will no longer have to be "accommodated" chillingly echoes the sentiments of nearly all of the brutal dictatorships in the 20th century both right and left, when the Nazi's invaded the channel islands they immediately stopped "accommodating" it - that is why there is a direct link between your sentiments and the nazi's.

[Leeds Wire]

Because you're saying that you don't want masons to be associated with RL and you couldn't get away with making such a statement against other groupings of people,if you read the earlier posts you will see that there are masonic lodges which admit women and bar men also there are a grouping of lodges who admit both women and men.

You have made a lot of claims about the order but clearly have no idea at all about what masonry actually is, a lot of people tend become very irate about freemasonry - why? To the people who are actually in it its just a hobby like any other -some people will love it and some won't - but archaic,anachronistic and objectionable - in what way,i've met and befriended people from different cultures and walks of life through freemasonry where normally our paths would never had crossed.

Your claim that you are glad masons will no longer have to be "accommodated" chillingly echoes the sentiments of nearly all of the brutal dictatorships in the 20th century both right and left, when the Nazi's invaded the channel islands they immediately stopped "accommodating" it - that is why there is a direct link between your sentiments and the nazi's.

[def: archaic - very old or old-fashioned

def: anachronism - an act of attributing a custom, event, or object to a period to which it does not belong.

def: objectionable - arousing distaste or opposition; unpleasant or offensive.]

Please don't tell me that I "have no idea at all about what freemasonry actually is" - I know an awful lot more than you obviously think. Your patronising attitude to non-freemasons is absolutely typical of the organisation. I've had countless debates with freemasons over the years which, without exception, result in them smugly arguing that "you obviously don't understand". Well I do, thank you very much, I understand very well indeed.

You simply cannot argue that your "order" (as you rather creepily refer to it) does not discriminate and is not inherently sexist. I object to those discriminatory principles on which freemasonry is partly founded (along with its religious and royalist sycophancy), hence my wish to disassociate it from RL. The two seem pretty incompatible to me. Its really not hard to grasp, so please don't turn the discrimination argument onto me.

You also state that I "couldn't get away with making such a statement against other groupings of people". Could you clarify what you mean by that please?

Ta

Mark

[Shadow]

Because you're saying that you don't want masons to be associated with RL and you couldn't get away with making such a statement against other groupings of people,if you read the earlier posts you will see that there are masonic lodges which admit women and bar men also there are a grouping of lodges who admit both women and men.

You have made a lot of claims about the order but clearly have no idea at all about what masonry actually is, a lot of people tend become very irate about freemasonry - why? To the people who are actually in it its just a hobby like any other -some people will love it and some won't - but archaic,anachronistic and objectionable - in what way,i've met and befriended people from different cultures and walks of life through freemasonry where normally our paths would never had crossed.

Your claim that you are glad masons will no longer have to be "accommodated" chillingly echoes the sentiments of nearly all of the brutal dictatorships in the 20th century both right and left, when the Nazi's invaded the channel islands they immediately stopped "accommodating" it - that is why there is a direct link between your sentiments and the nazi's.

You demonstrate perfectly what a ludicrous grouping the Masons are, your attempts to give yourselves some legitimacy by pointing to some lodges that admit women (Masonettes?) sounds like the BNP saying they're not a Racist organisation because they have Black and Asian members.

Your assinine efforts to compare 21st century opposition to Masonry to the Nazi occupation of europe is insulting to the millions who did suffer in that horrendous period of history and by making such a ridiculous claim you undermine your own arguments to such an extent as to make all your other statements and arguments untenable. Quite simply you and all your rolled up legged small business men and middle managers should take a good look at yourselves and grow up.

[Steve May]

Your claim that you are glad masons will no longer have to be "accommodated" chillingly echoes the sentiments of nearly all of the brutal dictatorships in the 20th century both right and left, when the Nazi's invaded the channel islands they immediately stopped "accommodating" it - that is why there is a direct link between your sentiments and the nazi's.

It's worse I'm afraid. The reason that the Masons won't have to be "accommodated" anymore isn't that they're all about to be rounded up and shot. It's that ordinary folk on the street think they're ridiculous.

Ghandi famously said "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.". But he got it all wrong.

It should be "First they fight you, then they ridicule you, then they ignore you, then there's not much point in sticking with it. Besides, we're all knocking on a bit and the young folk don't seem that interested"

[MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION]

You demonstrate perfectly what a ludicrous grouping the Masons are, your attempts to give yourselves some legitimacy by pointing to some lodges that admit women (Masonettes?) sounds like the BNP saying they're not a Racist organisation because they have Black and Asian members.

Your assinine efforts to compare 21st century opposition to Masonry to the Nazi occupation of europe is insulting to the millions who did suffer in that horrendous period of history and by making such a ridiculous claim you undermine your own arguments to such an extent as to make all your other statements and arguments untenable. Quite simply you and all your rolled up legged small business men and middle managers should take a good look at yourselves and grow up.

But the masons were persecuted under nazi occupied europe and were murdered in concentration camps - fact.

Whilst the jews had a star of david to mark them out ,masons had an upside down red triangle.

I have up until now openly declared my membership of what i consider to be a harmless benevolent organisation and wondered why some of the secrecy is required as it is bound to attract suspicion.

I suppose some of the elements of the rituals taken at face value do seem a bit strange

But as a result of some of the comments made on this forum it all now makes sense ,i too am now going to be very cautious about my membership for my own protection ,hatred often stems from ignorance but to say i shouldn't be welcomed at Rugby League grounds where i have been a regular since a child because of a hobby i enjoy seems unbelievable in this day and age.

(by the way - i am neither a middle manager or small business man)

MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION - signing off

[Shadow]

.....

(by the way - i am neither a middle manager or small business man)

MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION - signing off

But your persecution complex and pomposity seem more than adequate for the organisation

[Hornetto]

But the masons were persecuted under nazi occupied europe and were murdered in concentration camps - fact.

Whilst the jews had a star of david to mark them out ,masons had an upside down red triangle.

I have up until now openly declared my membership of what i consider to be a harmless benevolent organisation and wondered why some of the secrecy is required as it is bound to attract suspicion.

I suppose some of the elements of the rituals taken at face value do seem a bit strange

But as a result of some of the comments made on this forum it all now makes sense ,i too am now going to be very cautious about my membership for my own protection ,hatred often stems from ignorance but to say i shouldn't be welcomed at Rugby League grounds where i have been a regular since a child because of a hobby i enjoy seems unbelievable in this day and age.

(by the way - i am neither a middle manager or small business man)

MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION - signing off

A scout sent from the Rugby Football Lodge to weigh opinion?

Anyway.. where were we?

[Steve May]

But the masons were persecuted under nazi occupied europe and were murdered in concentration camps - fact.

Whilst the jews had a star of david to mark them out ,masons had an upside down red triangle.

I have up until now openly declared my membership of what i consider to be a harmless benevolent organisation and wondered why some of the secrecy is required as it is bound to attract suspicion.

I suppose some of the elements of the rituals taken at face value do seem a bit strange

But as a result of some of the comments made on this forum it all now makes sense ,i too am now going to be very cautious about my membership for my own protection ,hatred often stems from ignorance but to say i shouldn't be welcomed at Rugby League grounds where i have been a regular since a child because of a hobby i enjoy seems unbelievable in this day and age.

(by the way - i am neither a middle manager or small business man)

MASONIC RL ASSOCIATION - signing off

I really think you should get over yourself.

You're a member of a club with some daft, anachronistic rules. You're not being persecuted and noone is stopping you from going to RL matches or doing anything else. Your invocation of the Holocaust is so pathetic it's not worth getting offended by.

Hatred is a strong word. I doubt anyone here actually hates the Freemasons. I suspect most of us just think it's stupid, dated and worth a few moments of amusing ridicule. Your best bet is to stand up for yourself rather than wandering off in a huff.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

'Methven Hornet' date='Sep 7 2010, 03:05 PM' post='2115426']

Secret? Is that a problem? To be honest, I haven't a clue which organisations my next door neighbour is a member of - do I need to know? Do I have the right to know?

To use someone else's catchphrase - If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to be afraid of.

To use the example you gave, whilst I understand why posters would want to keep a low profile about their membership of the Hull KR Supporters Club. I am sure that membership of that club is open to all unlike of course...

You'll forgive me if I don't read all those links, won't you,

Certainly - It's just one example of may such websites

RL is not a 'radical' sport

Funny you know lots of posts on this board have linked Rugby League to other "progressive" trends in UK society over the last 115 years. Yet when push comes to shove. Certain posters spring to defend many reactionary attitudes and organisations...

It is a sport, a very good one, but not one that needs to be protected from wider society. RL, as I once said in a discussion about gays and RL, needs to be in every corner of society. A frightening thought for some but necessary for the health of the sport.

Would not disagree but in a society where sportspersons and sporting bodies are accused of not setting an example, They need to be mindful that for want of a better word to hobnob with organisations that are somewhat contraversial can in some ways be seen to imply approval. For example, would you be happy to be joined at Spotland by one of the two Northern MEP's of a certan political party better known by its intials.come the next Euro election or would you think it inappropriate for your club and sport to be assocaited with those who do not share League's inclusive ethos?

Now could you be a bit more specific about why you don't want masons or freemasonry associated with rugby league?

Very simple, League is supposed to be a sport open to all. Masons are an organisation that's not open to all. As you imply in your post sport cannot be divorced from the the society it's played in. I do remember having this same conversation about 20 years ago with people who though that rebel Cricket tours to South Africa were all about the game and in no way implied support for the then apartheid rulers of that Country and that the game was in some mystical way seperate from the society it was played in.

I have no problem with RL personalities engaging in charitable activities and there are loads of charities such as XIII Heroes who would no doubt appreciate their support.

And, in the interests of openness, could you possibly reveal whether you are a member of any organisations (secular or religious) or hold any views that may cause you to be hostile to this group of society?

Sorry to dissapoint but afraid not - but have I touched a nerve

[Millman]

Keith Mason is an ar5ehole.