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Too Few 40-20's


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It's an exciting play. Eddie Cummings gets aroused at just the sniff of one.  And yet in the NRL there were 26 40-20's.  In SL there were 36.

 

 

How can the leagues create more?  Perhaps increasing the reward.  A set of 7 to the kicking team, a single point maybe.  Definitively need to adopt the tap restart like the NRL I would say.  

 

Or maybe the kick needs to made easier. 50-20, 40-30?

 

I think making it more of threat will open up the field more and create more attacking play in general.

 

Thoughts?

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In my opinion, the last thing professional Rugby League in Europe needs are more attacking opportunities.

 

Right. Could be more of an NRL issue.  I know in the NRL points per game are down significantly from a high in 2004.  And many NRL fans are a bit tired of the predictability of the sets.  I think more 40-20's could break up the monotony a bit and create more unpredictability.  The Wings might have to drop back to cover and open the field a bit.

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Another point worth considering would be the number of 40-20s won at grounds that are not 100m from try line to try line. All in Aus are the full distance but I believe there are a few in UK that are not...

Personally, I am satisfied with the opportunity as it currently is. I don't see a seventh tackle being a good enough incentive to try this tactic more often. No club should need a seventh opportunity to score a try when the set is starting within 20m of the try line. If they are going to score, they are going to score.

My fear is that if you try and make it more accessible, you hazard the chance that more attempts will simply find touch outside the boundaries, in turn resulting in a scrum and slowing the game down.

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Another point worth considering would be the number of 40-20s won at grounds that are not 100m from try line to try line. All in Aus are the full distance but I believe there are a few in UK that are not...

 

Which grounds were you thinking of?

 

 

My fear is that if you try and make it more accessible, you hazard the chance that more attempts will simply find touch outside the boundaries, in turn resulting in a scrum and slowing the game down.

 

I'd probably do away with scrums altogether if I had my druthers.  Silly things really, especially the contested ones.

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I'm always delighted when my team makes a 40/20.  But I hate the rule generally.  You put in 4 good hits and confine the opposition to their 40m area, and then they kick it up field and instead of a reward for good defence they retain possession.  It just strikes me as against the spirit of RL which is based on running. passing and tackling.

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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I'm always delighted when my team makes a 40/20. But I hate the rule generally. You put in 4 good hits and confine the opposition to their 40m area, and then they kick it up field and instead of a reward for good defence they retain possession. It just strikes me as against the spirit of RL which is based on running. passing and tackling.

Good defence includes having the spatial awareness to cover a 40/20. If your good defence just involves chucking the wingers into the fray and leaving massive gaps behind them then it isn't really that good.

I love 40/20s for the variety they bring to a game and for rewarding the 4th major RL skill - kicking. However I would keep the rule as it is because part of their appeal is their rarety as it shows how difficult a feat it is. I would have a tap instead of a scrum though.

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I'm glad so few happen because if more happened it would be "too easy" to make metres. It a hard thing to get right so fair play to the players who have the skill to do it.

yep, it is already a big reward and takes a decent amount of skill and timing.

We shouldnt underestimate how much impact riles have on games. Due yo this rule we see wingers drop back earlier at times or fullbacks covering out wider leaving space in the middle. It isnt always about the actual number of 40:20s - dont forget how many wingers are forced to play the ball that they would previously have left.

One each at Wembley suggests it can happenn often enough.

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I seem to remember Cas has less than 10m between 30 and 40. Potentially Wigan and Hull FC. I could be wrong and I am sure if I am, then someone will correct me

In SL there's only Cas who have a "short" pitch the rest are the full 100m

There are other knocking around Bradford for instance

You see it plenty in the amateur game. Just comes down to the space available and historical pitches being 100yards long as required in the past

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I seem to remember Cas has less than 10m between 30 and 40. Potentially Wigan and Hull FC. I could be wrong and I am sure if I am, then someone will correct me

 

The DW pitch is 110m x 68m, KC is 114 x 74

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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I'm always delighted when my team makes a 40/20.  But I hate the rule generally.  You put in 4 good hits and confine the opposition to their 40m area, and then they kick it up field and instead of a reward for good defence they retain possession.  It just strikes me as against the spirit of RL which is based on running. passing and tackling.

 

I recognise this argument but I don't agree with it. A good defensive set requires good play on all six tackles, not just the first five, and that means your wingers/full-back getting into a good position to field the kick on the end of the set. If you've tackled well for four or five tackles but then your dozy wingers have failed to recognise what is happening, a good opposition half-back has a shot at executing a piece of skill to win back the momentum. In reality, if your defending has been that effective, the half-back will rarely be able to engineer a front-foot kick and land a 40/20.

 

Going back to the OP, Dave T's point about the space created by wingers dropping back is the key one and the impact of the 40/20 rule on the way the game is played is more important than the actual number executed.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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Going back to the OP, Dave T's point about the space created by wingers dropping back is the key one and the impact of the 40/20 rule on the way the game is played is more important than the actual number executed.

I agree. I would say that was the intention. But anecdotally it seems to me that most 40/20 attempts are not saved by the fielders but rather just missed by the kickers.

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I'm sure they'd have been meat and drink to one of my favourite players had they been in force when he was playing, and I'm sure it's probably an incentive to improve kicking.  But I still don't like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtJiIwUqcAk

Don't think Watersheddings was particularly short.  The disgruntled player picking up the ball is the former Bath coach and scourge of Sam, Mick Ford BTW

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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I'm sure they'd have been meat and drink to one of my favourite players had they been in force when he was playing, and I'm sure it's probably an incentive to improve kicking.  But I still don't like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtJiIwUqcAk

Don't think Watersheddings was particularly short.  The disgruntled player picking up the ball is the former Bath coach and scourge of Sam, Mick Ford BTW

 

Man, that's a boring video.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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I'm sure they'd have been meat and drink to one of my favourite players had they been in force when he was playing, and I'm sure it's probably an incentive to improve kicking.  But I still don't like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtJiIwUqcAk

Don't think Watersheddings was particularly short.  The disgruntled player picking up the ball is the former Bath coach and scourge of Sam, Mick Ford BTW

 

Bill Ashurst was doing some coaching at Rose Bridge when the 40-20 was brought in, at the age of 60 he stood on the field kicking 40-20 after 40-20 in a pair of wellies (ok no defensive pressure), he just said "if they had brought that in when I played, I'd have never let the opposition get out their own half"*

 

* of course that couldn't be correct but I think everyone knew what he meant by it.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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Bill Ashurst was doing some coaching at Rose Bridge when the 40-20 was brought in, at the age of 60 he stood on the field kicking 40-20 after 40-20 in a pair of wellies (ok no defensive pressure), he just said "if they had brought that in when I played, I'd have never let the opposition get out their own half"*

 

* of course that couldn't be correct but I think everyone knew what he meant by it.

Yes I remember his kicking at Belle Vue when he played for Wakey.

(I also remember him threatening to thump a Dewsbury Celtic supporter when Wigan played them at Mount Pleasant!)

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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I like the 40-20 rule, it needs not only good execution (and a bit of luck with the bounce), but also awareness on the kicker's part of when the field position is right to try it (as well as awareness from the defence to try and cover it or hurry the kicker).

 

This is going off-topic slightly,but personally, if there's an aspect of kicking in the modern game that I'm uncomfortable with it's the relentlesss crossfield kicks to the corner by attacking teams late in the tackle count. Although there is obviously a degree of skill in placing the kick correctly, it seems that most teams have players that can kick accurately towards the tryline and the advantage seems loaded to the attackers, who can leap in front of the defender knowing he has less to lose if he knocks on than the defender.

 

I'm not sure what the answer to it is (and maybe I'm the only one who has a problem with the frequency of this tactic), but off the top of my head maybe it would be worth considering a rule where the "defusing a bomb" rule that currently applies only to kicks caught in the in-goal area should apply to any kick where the kick itself was made within the 20 or 30 metre line, even if caught in the field of play. These days, it seems that every team has a kicker that can land a crossfield kick just short of the opponents' tryline and almost every likely outcome from that kick is favourable to the attacking team.

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I like the 40-20 rule, it needs not only good execution (and a bit of luck with the bounce), but also awareness on the kicker's part of when the field position is right to try it (as well as awareness from the defence to try and cover it or hurry the kicker).

 

This is going off-topic slightly,but personally, if there's an aspect of kicking in the modern game that I'm uncomfortable with it's the relentlesss crossfield kicks to the corner by attacking teams late in the tackle count. Although there is obviously a degree of skill in placing the kick correctly, it seems that most teams have players that can kick accurately towards the tryline and the advantage seems loaded to the attackers, who can leap in front of the defender knowing he has less to lose if he knocks on than the defender.

 

I'm not sure what the answer to it is (and maybe I'm the only one who has a problem with the frequency of this tactic), but off the top of my head maybe it would be worth considering a rule where the "defusing a bomb" rule that currently applies only to kicks caught in the in-goal area should apply to any kick where the kick itself was made within the 20 or 30 metre line, even if caught in the field of play. These days, it seems that every team has a kicker that can land a crossfield kick just short of the opponents' tryline and almost every likely outcome from that kick is favourable to the attacking team.

 

I agree, I think there are far too many bomb tries and it detracts from general attacking play.  I quite like your kick return idea.  Maybe if someone diffuses it in their own 10 they get a re-start.

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Am I right in saying that in the NRL if the defending team "defuses a bomb" or if an attacking kick goes out of play they get a 7 tackle restart set? It seems to result in far fewer last tackle kicks and more running plays.

spot on DS, defused bombs and attacking infringements in the in goal area (including not keeping the ball in the in-goal area) are all 7 tackle sets to the defending team from the 20m restart.
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spot on DS, defused bombs and attacking infringements in the in goal area (including not keeping the ball in the in-goal area) are all 7 tackle sets to the defending team from the 20m restart.

That rule was a classic case of overcompensation and has been detrimental to creativity.  The kicking it dead part that is.

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That rule was a classic case of overcompensation and has been detrimental to creativity. The kicking it dead part that is.

i disagree on this occassion US. I think what it has done is hold a halfback accountable for their kicks in goal. It hasn't stifled the attack. Halfbacks are still kicking cross field for their wingers and grubbers into the ingoal.

The best ones are dropping the high balls a couple of metres from the goal line and keeping their grubbers in the in goal area.

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i disagree on this occassion US. I think what it has done is hold a halfback accountable for their kicks in goal. It hasn't stifled the attack. Halfbacks are still kicking cross field for their wingers and grubbers into the ingoal.

The best ones are dropping the high balls a couple of metres from the goal line and keeping their grubbers in the in goal area.

 

It's killed the chip and chase. One of the most beautiful plays in the game.

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