RugbyLeagueGeek

I went to watch some of the games and wanted them to be successful. They were trumpeted as a genuine trial for GB and our equivalent of State of Origin (even called it County of Origin IIRC, which was a much poorer name than Wars of the Roses). But David Waite - then GB Coach and Director of Performance or whatever his title was - oversaw selection for both teams, and the two teams were therefore not wholly independent. And then when Yorkshire thrashed Lancashire in the last game between the teams in 2003, the GB team at the end of the season was still full of the Lancashire players anyway. So Waite managed to completely undermine both elements of the concept IMO - it was neither a full-blooded rivalry because he oversaw both teams, and it didn't act as a GB trial either, because he just picked his favourite players at the end of the year anyway. So for me it failed dismally on both those counts. But the shirts were nice!

Unfortunately they won't do the 'something else' properly either

I didn't see the game last night, but I did see their previous 2 games. As a neutral, I thought they had good patches in those previous games, winning or drawing the second halves (i.e. not throwing the towel in), but they just looked out-gunned and were exposed defensively throughout. Was this performance against Saints any different, or is there perhaps an element of cutting them more slack because of the change of coach? I'm finding the whole situation at Hull completely bizarre at the moment and from an outside perspective I think they've got rid of the best man for the job.

To be fair, Jim Sullivan, Billy Boston, Clive Sullivan, Lewis Jones and Gus Risman are all RL Hall-of-Famers, and all contributed significantly for GB .

World Cup Qualifiers or some sort of European Championships would be my imperfect solution. WC qualifiers would instantly add meaning to any random England games against 'weaker' opposition. More importantly, WC qualifiers or a Euro champs would instantly carry meaning for any potential fans outside of the heartlands. England is the major draw for these people, as opposed to the perceived quality of the opposition and competitiveness of the fixture, so bracketing any England games under these two categories would be a way of increasing the importance of the games for lay people. As @gingerjon pointed out earlier, the heartlands is already saturated for top class RL. They're not going to get big numbers to watch England v France/Wales/Combined Nations mid-season, and they won't go and watch Yorks v Lancs either. Using these games to spread the gospel in other areas is the way to go IMO.

Plus Alan Tait and Hugh Waddell from Scotland around that era as well!

I think it's a much bigger question than that to be honest - I think serious questions need to be asked/answered about what we want the international game to look like in the northern hemisphere, what is realistic/feasible, and what steps do we need to take to get to that point. And by 'we' I mean the decision makers in this part of the world. As it stands, the state of the international game is a complete and utter disgrace IMO - by and large just a complete afterthought with no long-term strategy whatsoever.

Excellent point. Hit the nail on the head there. England could play pretty much anyone outside of the heartlands, and with the right promotion (I appreciate this will never happen) they could easily get bigger crowds than they get for their half-hearted mid-season efforts in the heartlands. There just isn't the vision, expertise, money, resource or will to do it. I'll tell you exactly what would happen if we reincarnated the Wars of the Roses - we'd do it for 2-3 years, with diminishing interest, then talk would shift to "why don't we try an England v All-Stars type game?" And then after 2-3 years of that with diminishing interest, people would be asking "why don't we play France every year?" And we'll come full circle back to where we are now.

Ah this old chestnut again. The team may have been called England, but it represented Great Britain. For example, Welshman Jim Sullivan did the 1924, 1928 and 1932 Lions tours, and captained them on the 1932 tour. There are loads of Welsh players who played for 'England' before they were seemingly officially called Great Britain. We shouldn't fall in to the trap of looking back at things like team branding and identity of the pre-war era through 21st century goggles. There's been loads over the years. Depends how far you want to go back. E.g. Scotsman Dave Valentine toured with the Lions in 1954 and was GB captain when we won the world cup that year. Obviously there's also the likes of Clive Sullivan, Gus Risman and Billy Boston in terms of all-time greats who played for GB in Ashes series. If you look back, Welsh players have played a massive part in the history of rugby league.

Can I be Ramirez please?

The problem we've got is that for the Wars of the Roses to be a success, we're relying on the same people who have proved utterly incapable of making the international game a success. So reinstating a Roses match would be like moving deckchairs on the Titanic IMO.

This is utterly bizarre to me. It only makes any sense if the rumours about the potential investor are also true. It may prove to be a master stroke and a brilliant appointment, but there's no hard evidence to back that up, so it's basically a bit of a hail Mary from Pearson. If I was a Hull FC fan I would have zero confidence in what's happening at the club at the moment.

The same places where the expansion programme has been funded and resourced appropriately.

Lots of exciting talent to pick from at the moment. But... Are they actually going to be playing this year??