Ian (Pencil) Elliott
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Posts
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Posts posted by Ian (Pencil) Elliott
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Cheers JohnIan, as we are getting nowhere fast here, and I do not wish to derail this thread further, I have sent you a PM to follow up our earlier communications to which you have made reference here. It may be of interest to you.
Just so it's public I apologies to the mods for suggesting censorship on this forum.
I also apologies to other memebers for derailing the thread.
I do think I've had a point in the past but do appreciate that the mods work hard to ensure that the forum is fair and fun for all.
Looking forward to the RL future and proper RL debates.
Cheers Ian
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Where did I say that? I think that's what *could* happen with enough money and will behind it.
No evidnece that it will? How many years of licencing and failed promises do you intend to give licencing a go.
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It's different because it is a draw based tournament. Hence York Acorn might get Wigan in the cup. But these teams meeting in a regular league would be ridiculous.
In my opinion a licensing system is ridiculous. You seem to be of an opinion that each SL round produces 7 close games every week and this just does not happen.
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No because a knock out cup is exactly that. A regular competition is different. And I am only taking about what suits RL.
In what way is it different? If a one sided game is garbage then why have the earlier rounds? Lets just go for the creme de le creme of close SL games, oh hang on a minute.
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That is how you come across
I disagree, I argue the point especially when I think there is a wrong.
You have just recently used the words 'Fev paranoia'. I personally do not have a problem with this, however I had some goading comments deleted the other day. So you have to say what's the difference? You often have a go at Flatcappers again I really don't have a problem but the fact people get banned and warned for the same thing is just wrong and that's what gets my goat up.
In my job I travel all over the UK and meet all kinds of people. I have some friends in the South where we have a big disagreement on all kinds of things especially politics, does this mean that I do not listen to them or like them? Of course not. We are all entitled to our opinion as long as we are all treated the same, that's all I ask for.
You think I'm paranoid some people who post on here disagree.
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One of the things that I believe make rugby league unique is that assuming the teams are pretty evenly matched, then there doesn't have to be anything at stake to produce a fantastic match. I think it might be a caveman thing or something but I think it brings it out in any two teams.
But if the teams are woefully mismatched then it isn't quite as simple and it can become boring. Which is nothing to do with whether the team is going to be relegated or not.
I don't think this new system will work but if it's going to happen then let's see what unfolds. Hopefully the non believers will have to eat humble pie. But I suspect not.
In your view then we should scrap the Challenge Cup? Apart from a few upsets you get cricket scores in that competition. Maybe we should have a 14 team Challenge cup knock out only including SL clubs. The mouth waters at the prospect!
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There are some seriously bitter people out there...
There certainly is!
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You witter on about censorship, then appear to demand it for anyone who has a view contrary to your own.
I have done nothing of the sort and you know that.
All I have done is ask that all forum members are treated the same when posts are deleted because of abuse or topic derailment. My PM in July and my deleted posts this week show that this is not the case.
I would appreciate it if you would stick to the facts without trying to put words into my mouth.
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The current club forum moderators don't seem to have a problem with the way the site functions. If they do, they can raise any issues with me and I'm happy to discuss them.
The TotalRL general Terms & Conditions of Use apply to all sections of the forum, though. If any moderator wants to ban anyone from any part of the TotalRL forum, that person would have to be in breach of those Terms & Conditions. If they weren't, then I'd reinstate them. Disagreeing with a moderator is not against the Terms & Conditions.
Ultimately, yes, it is my overall responsibility as Site Admin to oversee all sections of the forum and ensure that the site's rules are applied fairly but, and I would hope all the current moderators of all our club based forums would back me up on this, I do not interfere in the way they moderate their forums so long as they are applying the general Terms & Conditions of Use of TotalRL.
There have been circumstances in which people I have banned under the T&Cs from the forums as a whole for repeated breaches of the rules have been reinstated to individual forums at the request of a local club moderator, so these things can work both ways (though I doubt you would ever acknowledge that and are probably unaware of the circumstances anyway because I try not to make a song and dance about such things). Give and take, tolerance and understanding, etc, all essential qualities in a good moderator, and incredibly hard to find in my experience.
It's a tough job, being Site Admin on here, you can't please everyone all the time, but I stand by the actions I have taken in this thread to remove a lot of personalised drivel that has threatened to drag the debate off topic and into an ever-decreasing catfight amongst individuals who want to grind an axe rather than debate the subject under discussion.
For anyone who seriously cannot stand the way TotalRL is moderated, the internet is a big place and other forums are available.
In my opinion, a nice way of putting what I say goes. I reported a post to you back in July where some members were off topic slating Featherstone people. Compared to my recent posts I have done nothing wrong but guess what mine were removed.
I suppose if you want a one way opinion on the state of the game then people like me can use other forums, after all that's exactly what you want us to do.
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This cannot be allowed to go unchallenged. The forum is replete with posts congratulating Featherstone on their ambition, solid achievements and the progress they are making.
Read post #3580 again.
For example.
the truth is that it has actually made very good progress in the licensing era, not least in developing the stadium.....The lodged accounts don't, of course, show the details of these liabilities, and I'm sure the club is on top of them
It it wrong for posters, including me, who have seen things go wrong at a number of clubs in the past, to caution care and offer advice on how to avoid disappointment.? No its not.
As for censorship on TRL, that is a complete and utter nonsense.
One thing, though, comes over clearly. Whenever ANYONE mentions Featherstone even in a positive way, you wade in defensively, crying "unfair" and playing the victim card., and then you wonder why you get such robust responses.
It really is time in my view that you remove the shoulder chips.
Morning John, first of all thanks for being positive on the game even though you disagree with the new structure.
As for your comments on the above, as usual I totally disagree.
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The reason for focussing on Featherstone is that they own the freehold of their stadium, and all credit to them for doing so.
Their immediate rivals - Halifax, Leigh and Sheffield - don't.
So if those clubs were to go into administration it wouldn't affect their stadia, whereas if the same fate befell Featherstone, their stadium would be under threat.
Sadly we have seen many clubs over the years lose their stadium as their major asset, and I would hate to see the same thing happen to Featherstone.
In our favour though all the bar and refreshment takings along with the other money making from facilities goes directly back to the club, has Robin pointed out. This gives us a distinct advantage financially over our rivals.
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Hi Ian,
The accounts show BOTH massive "liabilities" and also a small "profit". Good old accountants they are so confusing.
A bit like KPMG who really confused me about how downgrading SL clubs into a second tier will increase attendances significantly. The do have odd ways of looking at money. Bit like the bankers I suppose.
All along I have been waiting for Griff to comment as he has a great handle on accounts and knows Rovers accounts inside out. We did discuss in the summer if Mr. Nahaboos input may put the clubs land assets at risk and I think something had been done about this.
Anyway "Calling Griff" where are you??
I know that Griff is obsessed with our accounts, lol but I also know that he understands them better than me and you as it turns out.
I think the key here is Mark Campbell, we are lucky enough to have a chairman who really does have our interests at heat. He as put so much into the club that I believe he would have guarded against any risk with land assets.
With any risk and with any club there is always a risk.
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Liabilities are only negative if you can't afford to pay them, and that is the point I was making. The club, like any other club, needs to ensure that it can continue to do so, in the face of the increased financial pressure that the new structure will bring.
Thanks Martyn, that clears that up a bit. The same goes for all member clubs then? I still think that it was unfair to focus on Featherstone's worse case scenario.
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And John, as a former moderator on the Rovers, i have known you moderate that forum, as this is the reason i stopped doing it, i banned a person off the forum an within 2 hours you re-instated him
Thanks for that Lorne, certainly backs my argument up. I don't have a problem with rules as long as the rules fit all.
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This thread is on page 191 now, with views from all sides forcefully expressed. TotalRL also hosts the Featherstone Rovers club forum which is exclusively moderated by Featherstone fans, not me. Hardly a sign of any kind of censorship going on.
Yes, in the past 24-48 hours I've removed a bundle of posts that were just poor attempts at trolling (from both sides of the fence) in an attempt to keep this thread on topic and free of the kind of personal abuse that would ultimately get it locked. That's a means of preserving the debate, not shutting it down.
If you have a particular problem with anything anyone posts on here, report it and the moderators will deal with it.
Just like in the past hey John
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Actually the profit was £10,046, according to the accounts lodged at Companies House, which are open to all to view.
And well done to the club.
But the club still has the liabilities that I referred to earlier in this thread. There is nothing inconsistent in making a profit but also having significant liabilities, as any accountant will tell you.
The club has been very well run over the last five years, which I fully acknowledge, and the main hope for everybody is that it continues to be so.
Strange how you did not focus on our £10,046 and only chose to show negative aspects
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You're making some rather odd points.
John Drake has already responded to you, and your strange comment about censorship.
I didn't realise that my opinions had to be protected by censoring everyone else. If that really were the case this forum wouldn't last for five minutes.
And as for coming on here and "frothing" my opinion, and "baiting" Featherstone fans, again I find your comments curious. I'm not absolutely sure what it means to "froth" an opinion, but I can assure you I don't give an opinion without thinking about it carefully. And as for Featherstone, I have nothing but admiration for that club, but have pointed out the financial pressures the new league structure could put them under. If that is "baiting" their fans, then so be it.
As for an "agenda", my agenda is the good health of our sport. Nothing more and nothing less, and I call it as I see it. I hope that is indeed obvious, as you suggest.
Martyn, with all respects the way that you have run your campaigned against re-structuring has been very disappointing in my opinion.
Has for censorship, I noticed that many of my posts have been deleted during the last few days. Yes, I have been gloating but it's a bit of pay back for all the garbage I have had on here for years (which strangely never got deleted).
It appears censorship has been stepped up on here since the RFL started to go down the root of scrapping licensing upsetting some pals of moderators. John has sent me some PM's before on this which I don't agree with hence the reason I stopped using the forum.
Some will probably not get chance to read this because it might be deleted and my account suspended, which if it his goes to show that this forum just like your paper wants to show one side of the argument.
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Hi Daz,
Martyn said "For the year ending 30 November 2012 Featherstone Rovers show current assets of £137,400 and current liabilities of £453,308, while they also have long term liabilities of £531,162".
I don't think there is any question of any profits mate......
Hi Parky, either Martyn is lying or our board is telling fibs. http://featherstonerovers.net/article.php?id=11501
Well done Mr Sadler for highlighting our so called financial problems, it just shows how peeved he his with the recent developments which makes me soo happy
Didn't get chance to respond yesterday but yes I am looking forward to proper on field Rugby debates.
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Trying to give up the beer for a few months but I think I'll have a few to celebrate tonight. Roll on 2015, happy days are here again
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I am going to leave the debate there for a while but I have enjoyed most of the debating over the weekend. Guess I will never agree with some members but I would like to thank them who can do it without breaking forum rules.
Take care all.
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Just read the press release again for me if you can hold back the tears, P and R will soon be back. Deny it if you want but licensing failed because you, like many were wrong and SL has become stale, boring and predictable.The game has a culture of one division and play-offs, that is the culture of the game, you can claim whatever you want, history will tell you that you are wrong not me.
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Garbage, can I point you in the direction of Soccer Saturday and witness the excitement of the Doncaster game where the opposition missed a penalty and then Donny went up the other end and scored. One minute they were in the playoffs the next they are up. Similar excitement happened at both Hull and Leicester City games.Promotion and relegation, like much of football, is a joke. The sooner British league fans stop believing that English football has a blueprint we should be following the better. English football does well in spite of its idiotic and archaic nature.
The Americans have shown the world how to run professional sport in the 21st century. Let's stop with this delusional (sporting) nationalism. P & R isn't going to work no matter how much you like the idea, or how British you think it is.
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Yes we do and have I told you that its back because it's needed to sort out the mess left by licensing. Without P and R Super League was always going to be snooze fest for games towards the bottom of the league. I know you don't like being wrong but read the press release 1 more time, P and R is back because licensing failed, end of.It hasn't been the way in RL for 80% of its existance, check your history.
We have no culture of P&R at all.
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We are not in Australia. Different nationalities have different cultures, in Britain P and R is the sporting way and its on its way back.So why is Australian RL so popular, surely without relegation and promotion the whole thing should have collapsed by now.
The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
We'll always be around John, life would be boring without us admit it.