Maximus Decimus
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Posts posted by Maximus Decimus
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Really? What about in rahrah? How many times have England beaten Australia down under? Or New Zealand anywhere? Sixty years since Wales beat New Zealand. Scotland have never done it, Ireland similar I think.
What about the England football team? One trophy in the cabinet, and yet this recent world cup was the first in recent memory where the entire country wasn't convinced we were champions before the kick off.
Competitiveness is an illusion. You just need the friends in the media to help you with the slight of hand.
You're first point is related in no way to what I was talking about.
In Union and Football there are many many more competitive international teams than in RL, so it is less likely to get old. Winning is a real achievement. Beating Australia would be but once it's been done then it's been done, there's no other level to go to.
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Beating those teams would be a start, wouldn't it? It's a big enough task for now. We could worry about people seeing through it later, so long as they were actually paying attention to it in the first place, which right now, they aren't.
I don't disagree with you but it's not the only answer like some would believe. Many people seem to think that we would see something along the lines of England RU in 2003. We still wouldn't get a fraction of this.
Plus, isn't this a big reasoning behind licensing? To get more English playing the game so that we can beat the Aussies. It's not like the RFL are doing nothing now.
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Maybe he did point out the claims were wrong but was ignored which wouldn't be beyond the realms of credibility.
And as he pointed out himself, we just get wrote off as chippy northerners.
We don't have the soapbox from which to shout our game up. Union doesn't need to try, the media do it for them and in certain area's such as internationals there is a genuine national interest in the outcome.
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Our friend from Leigh.
Is that exactly what he says or just the spin you would like to put on it?
He talks about poorly thought through expansion clubs and to be honest just because they are expansion clubs doesn't mean that they weren't poorly thought out.
A failing expansion club such as Quins probably does the image of our game more harm than it does good. It certainly does more than anything else to give the impression that RL is simply a northern game as it struggles so badly in the south.
Face it, if Quins were a northern RU club we would be laughing at them, claiming it proves that the north doesn't want RU.
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They wouldn't ignore a successful national team. But we don't have one of those. All efforts should be channelled into getting one, if RL really, really wants to crack the national media. Having that successful national team playing in the biggest, most iconic venues in front of big crowds would help too.
Tinkering about with the club game will not increase national media coverage.
(For the sake of balance, and sorry to disappoint the conspiracy theorists, but I believe The Times have also ditched their staff rugby union reporter too, so it isn't just RL on the backfoot here).
I think this is about more than the ditching of one person, it's about the profile of the whole game and it is diminishing.
A successful national team is part of the answer but even that is only going to do so much because there is only really 1 maybe 2 international teams that it is worthwhile beating. People would soon see through this.
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more than anything that just shows how good they are at this.. they used 2003 and ran with it.. we dont even get positive stories out there to be seen, where is the media bod at league headquarters shouting that this isnt true, where are they when we have records broken, where are we with the millenium magic weekends the media is poor..
Wasn't there an 8 page pullout in the People for this?
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I find it staggering that everyone in this thread is talking about the global nature of the modern sporting landscape and yet the solution, according to some, is to retreat into the M62 corridor. Unbelievable.
Where exactly is this said?
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but they did get the grand final wins (ok by cheating but still) and look at the reaction to the cheating by the fans.. they seem to have a good base there and the juniors are starting to really get to grips with it.. ARU get a super 15 team in there beucase of it as well.. before RL gets the grip of AFL land.. (grand final very early 1999?? helped this out as well and was done without the cheating that the last few have come with)
but chicken and egg.. do you throw money at the exapansion and get the national coverage or do you sit back anf hope it comes so that you have the money to expand.. well the latter doesnt work so how about the former?
its relative money, get quins etc competative on the field and your away.. but you have to do it early,.. there is now apathy in london becuase of continued faliure and movement..
(i dont agree they would be relocated i think australia would gie it some time)
In 2004 prominent people were talking about relocating them because crowds had dropped massively. You can't budget for Grand Final success. Heck if Quins had appeared in 4 Grand Finals in a row then I reckon they'd have a pretty decent set up down there.
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and each of those teams is given massive help when they are given the chance.. somethine we need to learn over here that for the good of the game when we do expand to do it 100% and not just tick the spot on the map and sit hoping to god it will work..
The difference is that they have the money to do it. Their clubs are also entering a high profile competition that gets regular national media coverage.
That said Melbourne aren't a roaring success and without their Grand Final wins, they would have also likely been relocated.
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RL is not helping itself though in this country. We know RU is our main threat due mainly nowadays from its indirect from higher echelon society who have all the media power, however we are doing our utmost to lose our opwn power bases. The sport is also in danger of becoming to hard to play with less shocks/close scorelines
The current lack of P&R is alientating everyone outside the top flight, and we'll lose fans in all towns bar those in SL
Also the expansion teams have been disasters, due mainly to poor strategy form those clubs (i.e. moving around, chooing poor locations) and lack of RL support. Quins RL is the worst offender and the RFL needs to step in and get them out of Twatters FFS
RL needs to work its way down the country. In many ways Wrexham is a good move as it is outside the heartlands but by not much so away fans will swell gates
Also I feel that more needs to be done in schools. There are no franchise points for work done in schools. RL is still a stranger in inner city Manchester, Bradford, liverpool etc
I would like RL to provide an alternative stratgey to football/RU and become a game again which is played by mainly local lads. I feel this would help bind fan allegiance and civic pride, in a way that soccer could lose over time
The lack of relegation and promotion is a problem but so was the previous system. A return to promotion and relegation is not a simple answer. Even when we had it there were numerous problems and crowds in the lower divisions had been dropping. Most clubs already didn't see Super League as achievable because they were too small.
The game is hard to play and the RFL should run different levels where there are easier versions such as 5m and tag.
Working it's way down the country is an ideal but not realistic, you need places to actually want Rugby League and you can only move where they do.
A lot of work has been done in schools and I read in a teacher paper last year that RL was actually the fastest growing sport in schools. It is now played in 33% of secondary schools in comparison to 66% for Union, which I didn't think was that bad considering our geographical isolation.
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It's been mentioned before and isn't necessarily a terrible idea but an unlikely one.
It would have to be much more than a renaming though. It would need to be two divisions of 10 sides with similar level salary caps. They would also need to have similar amounts of TV coverage.
The reality is that the lower division would be seen as a lower division. This would still create the same issues with Quins, Cats and Crusaders, and their relegations would put their existence in doubt.
The threat would be that we would simply be reducing our pool of strong teams again by dropping it 10.
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Which would be nice for the australians
They'd probably love it and rename the sport or something.
'Australian Rugby Footie'
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I'm not quite as pessimistic. The game is big down in Australia and I can see them making real gains over the next ten years, Perth look a certainty for 2013 and a second NZ team or even a PNG team could follow a few years after. Yes the game could sink into obscurity in Britain, but I'm fairly optimistic that we'll win the war of the codes down under. So in a sense, even in the most pessimistic scenario in Europe, the game would be strong on another continent.
Yeh I left out Australia because it's a slightly different situation. They do get the media exposure and regular national TV coverage. It's also seen off the threat of Union and Soccer looks like it's going by the wayside too.
I worry for the game in the UK. The diehards will never let it die but I think we're fewer in number than we like to think we are. Of the thousands attending Super League I doubt more than 15% would watch it exclusively.
We're not finished yet, it gives me some comfort that many many people have before written the sport off but when I look at the facts and try to leave out emotion it looks very difficult to see a way out for the game over here. Despite outwardly appearing stronger than many times in the past if you scratch below the surface the signs are possibly more worrying. The decline of the media presence cannot be underestimated, we have also concentrated our resources on a few bigger clubs which has seen a reduction in our geographical spread. This is one of the reasons I often think we shouldn't write off smaller passionate clubs like Leigh and Halifax. Whilst we obviously need to expand and within Super League, we also need to ensure the retention of as many passionate fans as possible, as this is one of our great strengths.
All we can do is keep plugging away and play to our strengths. We need to offer a decent alternative to Football and Union and a sold-out Challenge Cup final is a good start. What I was trying to get at in the above post is that we are starting to look less of a decent alternative in comparison to Union if it carries on growing domestically at its current rate.
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In response to the general article, it is correct.
Rugby League has shown remarkable resilience over the years against the odds but ironically I think we are in a more precarious position than ever before and I think there is a real chance that within a generation we will be a collection of diehards watching with a few hundred others.
It's not particularly anybody's fault and the most worrying thing is that there's possibly very little that anybody can do about it. The world has changed and is global and it is these sports that are swamping everything else. People want to be seen as superstars and get the money and fame associated with it. RL is not in a good position when it comes to this.
I've said it before but it's remarkable that we're still here. I know of no other sport in our position, that still survives to a decent size despite little national coverage and no special place within the establishment. The two other localised sports that I can think of; GAA and AFL, are under less threat because they are so big in their respective countries and do hold a special place within the establishments.
The biggest problem and it pains me to say this, is Rugby Union. Despite being a poorer version of the sport it has sorted itself out on the professional front and is now a much larger sport especially internationally. Whereas we used to have a bigger domestic game they have overtaken us on this and are continuing to grow. It is this difference in the domestic games that may eventually facilitate this demise. We struggle to hang on to our best players now but it is only going to become more difficult when the gap between the two sports grows. They have the media on their side and as such create genuine national sports stars, some who earn in the millions. They offer a European competition that is genuinely interesting and even now a domestic game with bigger crowds than Super League. If I was a 17/18 year old talented RL player and not so staunch in my RL ways, then I would definitely consider switching. Players are doing as well and at a younger age.
Football is of course a massive issue for any heartland club but there is definitely a niche there for other sports, I just hope it isn't Union that eventually fills it.
I don't like the above facts and they do worry me but it is what I honestly feel. I used to think the sport was so good that it couldn't die and once it was given exposure it would rapidly expand but it isn't the case. You just have to look at the game in France as to what can happen when Union gets so big in comparison to League. Anybody who is any good is poached. You just have to look at the game in and around Manchester to see how quickly we can become a thing of the past.
The most annoying thing in my opinion is that as a sport we are going about things in a generally good way with setting down grassroots and the like. We just aren't expanding fast enough in comparison to another similar sport. We need some sort of a big break, like the game taking off in a couple of other nations. The USA would be one such place but that in reality would be a pipe dream.
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I was watching some speedway on Sky recently and the commentators mentioned how much damage it had done to the sport losing all the clubs in London. Strangely there would be some on here squealing with delight if that happened in RL.
They'd hardly be squealing with delight and it's not analogous. I presume they were saying it had done damage losing strong clubs in London whereas we've pretty much never had one.
The Capital is of course important but Quins are hardly cracking that nut.
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Your joking right?
Steve going gives Barrow an extra 10 points.
Crowd 9305.
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This is your biggest problem, its been SPELLED OUT TO YOU LOT MANY TIMES but your sheer arrogance wont allow you to admit it.
Q, Who slagged Barrow off when we won the League , then the GF & even got to the NR final ???
A, Nobody.
Q, Who slag off Fev for winning the League & being the best side this term ???
A, Nobody.
Q, Who slagged Fax off halfway / threequaters through last season when they were running away with it ???
A, Everyone !!! Why,??
Because of the there there loud mouth, arrogance, were the best by a country mile attitude...........
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So you're admitting that you've been trying to slag off Widnes all along?
So I guess the 'having nothing against Widnes' line that you used to spout before totally losing the plot these past couple of weeks, was in fact also a lie.
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So did the club accordingly reduce its admission charges to its loyal fans for taking the apparent concious decision to deliberately present them with sub standard rugby?
Who said it was a conscious decision?
We aimed to put out a competitive team this year whilst trying to blood a lot of youth at the same time. We did have a competitive side that haven't performed as well on the pitch as we would have liked admittedly. That said we have had injuries and our head coach has been missing for much of it. We've beaten teams like Barrow, lost by a point to league winners Featherstone and made the Northern Rail final. Our biggest defeat is a whopping 20 points.
Hardly a deliberate attempt to present sub standard rugby.
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Your admitting you had to do an internet search to find your own teams final placing
can you nor remember that far back 
For God's sake Mick are you that stupid.
I was advising you against lying when people can easily find out the answer using a simple internet search.
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Great! add it to your list of 'famous forum wins', well done fella! I dont need to put an argument forward when Mick Wilson et al are doing a great job.
Quality.
Nah, you wouldn't even be close to a famous forum win. You're small time.
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You're an excellent cure for insomnia pal Good luck in SL.
Ad hominem = no argument.
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My mistake you came a glorious FOURTH In the season you were trying mega massive super.
From some it would be mistake, from you with your record, I'd suggest it was a lie.
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Who cares about Crowds? Surely the game is more important? Not in Rugby League! This just shows what a farce the RFL and this franchising lark is! Fax will not be in SL and are not ready for it. Fev won the League and for me hoipe they win the Grand Final-best team over the year. They deserve to have a crack at SL rather than clubs who have won nothing this year! But the way the RFL keep moving goal posts to fit their point of view it would not surprise me if clubs did exagerate things to stay/get in SL. In many cases there is little difference between Barrow, Halifax, Leigh, Fev over Salford, Bradford, Quins, Crusaders , Wakey, Cas etc. Some clubs are only in SL due to a sugar Daddy being with them at the right time.
This is where the problem is.
P & R has gone, but people cannot accept it and take their frustrations out on Widnes for playing the RFL's game.
Whether we should have P & R back and whether Widnes deserve Super League are two very different arguments.
Barrow v Widnes Co-operative Championship Tonight KO 7.30 PM.
in The General Rugby League Forum
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Does the fact that Barrow have now been comfortably beaten by Widnes and are now only 4 points ahead of Widnes mean that they are now not ready for Super League? Many people were saying that they deserved a chance because of what they had done on the pitch in comparison to Widnes and that Widnes' inclusion would be a farce.
Just goes to show why you can't solely base licensing on what happens on the pitch, Barrow are no more or less ready than they were 2 or 3 weeks ago ffs and neither are Widnes. Form is temporary while class is permanent.
Also it hopefully goes some way to dispelling the idea that we purposefully have put out a weak side this year because we knew we'd get a franchise. We put out as competitive a side as last year that have had problems this year.
Now we're getting players back and playing quite well, we could yet throw a spanner in the works of a couple of clubs in their march for the Championship.