Trojan
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Posts posted by Trojan
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My first trip to Wembley (74),
When Murphy robbed us
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I suppose my greatest RL experience was actually playing the game. Only at U17 level. But that feeling of strung up nervousness just before the ko is something I've never duplicated in my life except for standing at the altar.
AS Chris says JIffy's try was memorable. As was his try against NZ at Headingley in 1993 - I was standing on the St Michaels Lane terrace, it was raining, and I suddenly saw this blur getting bigger and bigger, it was Jiffy coming the length of the field to score.
Another eye opener - same ground - 1978, the Aussie no 11 (Reddy?) went the length of the field and no one laid a hand on him. Unbelievable! The start of Aussie dominance for me.
Fev beating 'Fax with only 11 men in the 1991 Regal Trophy was one of my all time highs.
I enjoyed us beating Bradford in 1973, and I enjoyed us beating Hull in 1983. But I reckon the Wembley experience was vastly overated. I missed the semi at Headingley in '83 (wedding) but the away tie at Saints was magic - Johnny Gilbert's try.
I've been to Old Trafford for Premiership Finals, Grand Finals and Test Matches. It's a fantastic ground - truly the Theatre of Dreams, magic atmosphere - knocks the old Wembley for six IMO. (and me a Man U hater
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Maybe then we can see NL go forward and be the great competition it can be...........
In the long run no doubt they'll come to terms with playing in the Championship with no reward for winning it and crowds that dwindle year on year. Perhaps it'll be when they go out of existence. Perhaps if franchising had been indtroduced in 1977 when Fev were Champs we could be in favour of it? Or when Leigh were champs, in 1981. Or perhaps Wigan would have been happy to be stuck in the second tier in 1980/81.
The advocates of franchising are those like you Parky who support a side that's never likely to be threatened by relegation so don't really give a f*ck what happens to the teams below them(apart from availing them of the opportunity for a good sneer). And those who support the likes of London and Crusaders.
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so waht was the point about London you were making?
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If Widnes, Barrow, Leigh, Fev, Barrow should be happy to play in the Championship, why aren't London?
I know you'll have an answer.
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what exactly is wrong with this?
It doesn't give the likes of Batley, but more especially Halifax, Widnes, Leigh, Barrow and Featherstone a chance to match perhaps beat and even replace the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Warrington etc. Batley were the first team to win the Challenge Cup - they beat Saint Helens. Sport is about change. Clubs and their supporters need aspirations. Franchising takes those aspirations away, and not only that depresses their crowd figures. If it's so wonderful why don't London (whatever they're called today) try it?
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Having been around RL for many years the game has always had low crowds below the top level. Many clubs remain break even on crowds in the hundreds. Paying players too much is the bigger problem than crowds. Clubs need to adjust their finances to their incomes, and play their rugby at a level they can afford.
In time most NL clubs will be past the SL dream not because they are shut out, but because they can't afford it something the dreaming SL wannabees keep ignoring. When the realisation comes, perhaps led by Karl Harrison and Batley a new NL will emerge on sensible financing and home grown local players.
You would be able to compete then and there would be something for the fans surely Keith??
Compete for what Parky? You sound like Marie Antoinette - "let them eat cake" We all know what happened to her
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correct.i think thev'e gone this time unless they can produce a rabbit out of the hat. i cant believe they have dragged there heals all these years over a new or revamped ground.
Wakefield were going to piggyback on Yorkshire Cricket moving to a new ground next to the M1 at Denby Dale Road, but it never happened.
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Imagine if the year were 1980 - Wigan would not have been allowed back in the top division because they failed to win the second tier comp, and also there were a range of newbie teams who would have been given preference
Yes in the 80/81 season when Wigan were in Div II didn't Leigh win the Championship? By today's standards that would surely cement them in SL for all eternity.
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no competition from premier league soccer or union
Sale Sharks and Wigan Athletic aren't that far away.
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You "dont have to" go now!
First and foremost you go to be entertained, loyalties come after that but if "your" club goes under or is merged you do without, watched a merged team or do what some have who need success, go and latch onto a SL club like many fickle folk have from Leigh, Swinton, Oldham, Hornets, Doncaster, Hunslet etc.
A successfully merged team of two or three current lowly standing sides will attract greater numbers than those merged clubs origins combined.
If the only reason I went to the Rugby was to be entertained I wouldn't have continued to go to POR for the last 15 years or so. I go because I'm committed to my team. If entertainment is the only criterion then I could go to Headingley just as easily. Trouble is I wouldn't be that bothered about the outcome.
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and AS I SAY that is fine.. (i dont understand the relevance of "its a leisure activity").. but how many will be attracted to these new clubs compared to those that are lost..
And the answer is they won't be. At least not in enough numbers to make the clubs viable. Because fans develop a loyalty over the years. To the club, to your mates who you watch with. Break that link and - there's no reason to go any more. Because you don't have to.
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so you may be one of those lost.. but how many will be attracted.. if the attracted does not outweigh the lost then fair enough THAT merger is not a goer.. it doesnt mean all arent and if the attracted does outweigh the lost then maybe its worth doing.
It's a leisure activity. It's not something you have to do. You have to buy food, if Morrisons closes then you have to go to Asda. If Featherstone Rovers closes I can stop at home. Same goes for Sheffield fans too. Or find some other leisure activity. I'm not alone in feeling like this. Look at the posts on the Championship sites if you don't believe me.
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For example: When Sheffield "merged" with Huddersfield and the Sheffield fans pulled away from the game how many went to Doncaster? if it happened again and Sheffield were no more how many would go to Doncaster? how many from DOncaster would go to sheffield? not many i would hazard a guess.. yet a merged entity between the two that didnt have Doncaster or Sheffield in the name necessarily would attract a large number of these speccies for super league, not only that but it would stand a chance of bringng in fans from all over the area, those in Rotherham who may not want to go and watch a "sheffield" side etc..
As I've pointed out before, it's a leisure activity. It's not something you have to do. I count myself a Fev fan, but I don't go as often as I ought. If they're playing at a time that's not convenient for me I give it a miss. They're having their most successful season since 1983, but so what? They'll probably finish top of the Championship, but unless they win the playoffs it won't count for anything. And even if they do win it - there's no guarantee they'll get any reward. I'll probably make more effort with the playoff games. But my heart's not in like it used to be. If Fev ceased to exist I wouldn't go to Wakey, or Cas, or the Bulls, or Leeds. I might watch Shaw Cross on a Saturday afternoon and attend GF and the occasional test match. But TBH the ending of P&R has spoiled it a bit for me. As I posted somewhere else, the edge has gone.
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Latest figures for last weekend's games:
Hull v Hull KR - SS2, Thurs - 151k (1st for the week)
Wigan v Wire - SS1, Fri - 167k (3rd for the week)
NR Cup Final - SS3, Sun - 76k (2nd for the week)
Seems very low, although they are some of the top figures for each channel.
Looking last year, the game on the 24th of July was Wigan v Leeds in their last 'Big One' and that got 133k, so it does appear that this is a seasonal dip.
Must admit I thought the Wigan v Wire game would have got a higher figure, especially with the 3D novelty. I hope it doesn't put Sky off making the effort.
I watched an advert for Sky this evening. Eric Cantona was flogging cricket, tennis (US Open) cricket, golf and soccer. No mention of RL. Perhaps if they included the game in their publicity they might get a larger audience.
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My worry has always been that Leeds will find some way of getting the goalposts moved, that would bring about Bradford's ejection and immediate plunge into oblivion.
Why would Leeds do that and lose the big derby match payday?
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Salford as things are would seem obvious but the new stadium may help things a lot, especially if Cas and Wakey don't.
Plus of course BBC Breakfast are moving to Salford. Which should raise their profile considerably.
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I went to a collectors fair at Pudsey this afternoon. There were quite a lot of old Rugby League programmes. Some from the fifties. Two that caught my eye were "Halifax Football Club" and "Wigan Football Club" . no mention or Rugby or League at all on the progammes' titles. I wonder how many other RL sides used the title "Football Club?" Hull FC goes without saying. In the sixties when my wife worked in Wakefield, she would be late home if Wakefield were playing mid-week in the the early evening. She would say "the traffic was bad because of the football match"
When did we allow the term "football" to mean just soccer?
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Boyd - Warrington
Tamati - Warrington
Mills - Widnes
Sorensen - Widnes
Nicholas - Warrington
Is it me or is there a bit of a theme here? Is it the water in Cheshire that makes players 'ard?
I suppose size for size Tuuta must have been the toughest of this era.
But:
Kevin Ward? Keith England? Chris Burton? Kelvin Skerrett? Lee Crooks? Andy Goodway? David Hobbs? I don't think any of them took a backward step.
I could go further back to legendary back row forwards like Derek Turner and Johnny Whiteley.
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Unless the wheels come off the wagon in Wrexham it is odds on that either Wakefield or Castleford will get the bullet to let Widnes in next time round. If there is another viable (French) candidate they may both cop for it, the stadium situation does not change that.
Are the wheels on the wagon in Wrexham ATM?
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. Exciting times ahead.
2. "Unfair" means nothing, life and business is unfair, the NRL and the USA football leagues aren't doomed at all so stick to that nonsense if you like. As for Wakeys crowds history shows this city club has many more times the potential for big crowds than Fev. Not having a go but Fev have always struggled for crowds even when at the top.
But it does in sport. That's the whole point of "sport" the phrase "sporting chance" means fairness.
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We are owed nothing by the game guys, the game owes it to itself to grow and go forward.....
Without the fans, and the clubs those fans support there is no game at least at pro level. Without clubs to play there'd be no crowds for the likes of Leeds etc. I'm sure even you would get tired of pick any from Saints, Wire, Wigan, Hull every week Parky.
Franchising is unfair and any competition that is unfair is unltimately doomed. As I said before Fev's crowds pre Wakey entering SL were greater than theirs. No doubt the same applies to other neighbouring non SL sides.
SL was a snapshot of the League as it existed in 1995. With p&r there was some chance of changing that snapshot. Now it's frozen. As the sayng goes "no change - no chance"
If you look at the posts on this board those in favour of franchsing are almost exclusively those who support the better off teams. Those who favour p&r are those who were excluded. Without p&r there is absolutely no chance of the lower rank clubs ever aspiring to SL status - and they will die. Thin end of the wedge Parky.
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2. Of that there is no doubt. That thousands upon thousand MORE have walked into the game is another blind spot you and Tro have in your view of things.
Can you prove that?
Because I don't think it's so generally, perhaps in Leeds, but generally over the whole pro and semi pro League I reckon attendances are down. Not at Wigan, or Saints, not at Leeds or Hull, but in the rest of the League.
If as you suggest Hull KR shut up shop they'll be down even more. The League cannot continue with only 4 or 5 teams Parky. Expansion is very difficult and with what's about to descend on the country will become almost impossible.
Super League missed the boat in 1995, when there was a chance in South Wales, they missed the point in France by putting a team in Paris, now Union has got its act together I'd say any form of expansion will be nigh impossible. Once Jonny's drop kick went over in 2003 RL in the Uk was in trouble. IMO League is a better game to watch, but Union's attendances say that my opinion is a minority one. The best thing to do in the current economic storm is to batten down the hatches and try and preserve what we have. Franchising IMO jeopordises that option because it puts more clubs in danger of closing.
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Old Faithful,
We've just been hammered by Wigan
Old Faithful,
The score was a pretty biggun
Now the roundup days are over
I'll become a Kingston Rover
Goodbye Old Faithful pal o' mine
(sorry)
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Oh just forget it Geof. I can't be @rsed with yer.
I'm sorry to seem thick Dave but I don't understand what you mean.
Rovers
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Waring had been retired for three years when Fev beat Hull at Wembley in one of the biggest upsets for years in 1983. Hull were such hot favourites the bookies had stopped taking bets on them. Waring had been retired for twelve years when Bradford bought Newlove for a then world record transfer fee from Fev.
Waring had been retired for 15 years when Fev last appeared in a CC Semi final. Since then of course we've had dooper league with Fev excluded so their expoits are confined to the past.