petesmithfan
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Posts posted by petesmithfan
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So the Swedish drew on no experience ? They did not need to, it is a business structure as much as a League structure and what the RFL will have looked at was what type of system would give the overall business the most strength, they probably were not even aware of the Swedish system. They just devised what they thought would be the best business and sporting structure for the game AT THIS TIME. I think you are all looking into it way to deep. The process has been a matter of looking at the problems over the whole and coming up with A (not necessary the best) structure to address some of these.
So I think overall it is irrelevant.
The RFL and Chairman also have to actually make decisions they can not spend forever going over and over the pros and cons like we do on here, or nothing would get done. Some times its just a case of giving something a go!
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1. OK - it's the only experience on which the decision makers can draw as well.
2. Why is it irrelevant ?
So the Swedish drew on no experience ? They did not need to, it is a business structure as much as a League structure and what the RFL will have looked at was what type of system would give the overall business the most strength, they probably were not even aware of the Swedish system. They just devised what they thought would be the best business and sporting structure for the game AT THIS TIME. I think you are all looking into it way to deep. The process has been a matter of looking at the problems over the whole and coming up with A (not necessary the best) structure to address some of these.
So I think overall it is irrelevant.
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Yet it's the only actual experience from which we can draw.
We do not need to draw anything................................ it is out of our control !!! and its still irrelevant!
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I have a feeling that had the Swiss experiment been a roaring success you would have been one of the first to use it as an example!!!!
These things are progressive so i dare say at some point it was actually a success. It is still irrelevant to RL in ENGLAND. And if it does not work in RL it would be changed (thats how it goes). The only way we will find out is to try! we will not find out by talking the ###### out of it on here!
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Some interesting points from the Swiss regarding this league format...
From the 10th game the pressure began [to be involved in the top eight] and this pressure made the clubs really careless - signing players, changing the coach and taking financial risks. Apart from the few big clubs, it was not sustainable.
They intended to make the whole thing a little bit more interesting for the public. But in the end, the difference between the teams in the 'championship' league and the teams from the second division was too big, so it wasn't interesting at all.
Switzerland used the model for 15 years, from 1988 to 2003, but after attendances fell through the floor and sponsorship and television revenue dipped they voted for change
Switzerland did not have the strength in depth to increase the size of their top flight to 16 or 18 teams. And while two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was viewed as a compromise, sponsors were not keen to be associated with the bottom 16 after the split.
“It was very complicated for television and sponsors who didn’t want to be associated with any meaningless matches. It is much easier to have two separate divisions.
“The second part of the season, with eight clubs playing for the title, was as successful as the current system. But fans were not turning up in the same numbers, especially at the start of the season or when the games didn’t matter as much."
Totally irreverent water muddying, It does not take into account: available talent pool, funding, distribution, and so on and so on and so on. It suited them will enough for over a decade, things changes?
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Its a free werld. Wy not take up jernolism youself?
Its a free werld. Wy not take up jernolism youself?
Tell you what instead of being a bore about my english skills, why do you not answer some of my points............................... I have stated how fev have spent their cash and everyone has gone quiet.!
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Pretty similar. Most of it goes on extra costs like players' wages.
Cool. Off to POR to watch us beat fax while we still have a ground to play on ;-)
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I can’t wait! Last week it didn’t get delivered, but will be straight out for one of that happens again. I would like to know what “financial pressures” Martyn says will be put on clubs by the new structure. Last year he said clubs would bust a gut “overspending to avoid relegation”. The autumn clamour for players is just about over and all I can see is sensible spending and in some place s like Wakey and Bradford sensible cuts in the player budget.
I suggested to Ponte and Terry that Rovers did not seem to be busting their guts to get in the Superleague ASAP and seemed happy to do it through the 3x8 system. I think from the figures Martyn gives it’s clear they are financially well stretched but as has been said who isn’t outside the big boys and big bankrollers.
Martyn’s expose of the finances of Fev was part of Ponte’s debate with him hence he chose Fev to illustrate a point. I’m sure that post wasn’t tomorrows article in full or I may as well cancel my copy. I think the accounts at many of the clubs from HKR down to Leigh will all be pretty much the same with clubs spending to the limit. Let's see if he has the full low down?
All these ten clubs have struggled in Superleague apart from Featherstone who have never had the chance to either make or break. So for a couple of years now I for one have always thought they should have their chance regardless.
Agreed. If you see my post on the last page, I state how fev have spent thier money and the revenues it may create in the medium to long term. We have spent on increasing capacity, increasing matchday revenue ( new refreshment kiosks). Non match day revenue ( club house upgrade, business units in new stand) Playing refenue (centre of excellence). So to me our liabilities represent an example of good investment that will see medium and longterm gains in many areas. Where as some liabilities at clubs like Wakefield represent very poor value investment in the medium and long term.
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Jeez - what a year that was then. Sold Zak and still lost £100000ish.
How would your finances look without the GF windfalls? you earned them but they were never guaranteed and I have no idea of the effect, I just wonder if there would have been any?
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I must say that I have found all this bickering and petty points-scoring a bit too much over recent weeks. My Dad is bigger than your Dad syndrome is tiresome.
All the while the NRL clubs are eyeing up our top talent and creaming them off at will. Who can blame players for wanting to jump ship from a competition that settles on a format with 3 weeks to go to the season opener. Stability brings success - if you were thinking about putting money into club RL at the moment you would definitely need nerves of steel.
What is so galling is its perpetuated by our own media.......... we hark on about national media not giving us a fair ride. But our own RL press are continually decisive and undermining. They say they care and its their duty blah blah blah. They could do much more to SELL the sport to different groups! More stuff on players lifestyles, stuff that appeals to the younger fan.
I would like our Media to become the next big expansion area and bee more independent. Instead of a couple of blokes in brighouse running lifestyle business off the back of our sport.
There are some very good modern RL Jurnos out their, they are been held back bye their dinosaur editors. And that is from the horses mouth so as to speak and why many are turning to creating web based media themselves. We are on the cusp of a media revolution in League and the old guard no it !!!
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Good luck to them. Neither Sheffield nor Doncaster is ready for $uperleague just yet.
I agree griff. Just see them as a club that has been progressing nicely over the last couple of years and have again restructured to keep the momentum going.
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Just seems the sensible thing for a Journalist to do Robin
;) What amazes me is its clear to see where any investment or directors loans have gone at Fev, Stand, refreshment kiosks, floodlights (hull kr to be installed) centre of excellence, club house refit, all of which are expected to see a return over a period. Gound improvements will increase capacity = more revenue, refreshment kiosks = more revenue, floodlights meet criteria meaning chance of promotion = more central funding, centre of excellence = better players = better results = more transfer income. Stand = business units = more revenue, stand = disabled gym = diversity. Club house refit= more functions (weddings etc) = more revenue.
the diversity of our business also = more sponsors= more revenue.
Its not like we have just thrown it all at the team. Our liabilities represent great value in the medium to long term, where as the liabilities of say Bradford or Wakefield represent very poor value in the short , medium and long term. -
I wonder if Martyn could do an interview with Mark Cambel where could pose all the questions that are troubling him about the rovers finances. Then we can all have the low down, Seems churlish speculating on here when he has better access to the people with the facts than we do.
Look forward to seeing interview in print.
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I'm just wondering - if a club like - say - Sheffield finishes Third in Middle Eight but don't meet minimum standards, will the Middle Eight Play-off be between Fifth and Sixth or Fourth and Fifth ?
If it's between Fourth and Fifth, what are they playing for ?
Why on earth do you let your head get clogged up with wondering about all that ######.
Doncaster will take up your mantel now, great stadium, developing team, good structure and management set up, time to start looking over your shoulder in South yorks
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So if i've got this right,some people are saying its ok for wakefield to be in sl and constantly failing and going into admin cos they've got nothing to lose but fev shouldn't be allowed in because they're a cracking club thats well run,makes a profit and owns its own stadium and land
yup thats what the great RL Minds are saying lol
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I think what is really eating away at some people is the fact the Featherstone Rovers have been pivotal in making this restructure happen. Blowing Cas out of the water and running wigan close was where it all stared and having a chairman who has worked with others and brought about a change in attitude.
I will be deadly honest. I see RL as a tribal sport and I am buzzing at the fact that the likes of Wakefield and Cas may suffer some hardship. Humans are Selfish................... to a man on here all our views ultimately service our own needs.And you been a Wakefield Fan (martyn) can probably see your shiny new stadium and thus future slipping away, because should you get relegated it will be very hard to justify the build. Good luck
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Martyn, you could not have given a fig about our finances until we started to become a threat to your ideals of how the game should look............... Not one bit. You are not an accountant and the worst that can possibly happen is that we would end up like 90% of teams and renting. Our land has hardly been benficial in furthering our cause in the summer era, and now we may get a look in you suddenly become concerned.
I suggest you arrange a meeting with Mark Cambell and express your concerns to him instead of assuming stuff on here. Now that would be the right thing to do if you were really concerned. -
fev balance sheet will reflect work on ground which will see capacity increase, income streams increase via rent on business units. also invested in centre of excellence, which wil reep its own rewards.
so overall our deficit shows value for money. wonde if
other clubs deficits show the same investment gains.
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Assuming the strategic objective is to bring the game back to one played by a few small to medium towns and couple of cities in the North, at the elite level, then this new structure should have a very good chance of achieving that.
Whether that will encourage broadcasters to dig deeper in their pockets when negotiating the purchase of TV rights or improve the appeal (which would appear to already be quite low) to better quality sponsors offering higher sponsorship packages would seem doubtful.
Its the product that matters not where it is played. If we can get a vibrant game where everyone is playing for something then the spectacle will be much better thus more people will watch on sky and we get more money simples. I have never been to a live darts or snooker match but watch them all the time on the TV, for that matter I have been to one Football game in my life yet subscibe to watch it.
Its all about the product and building up appeal, which is much easier the the new media age.
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How on earth do you know that our Poll doesn't give a fair view?
And I'm sorry, but I always reply.
It's odd to call it old ground when the clubs are debating it this week
Ok what is your circulation figure? I suspect a very small percentage of the RL community. There was a poll on here that saw the 3 x 8 come out top................ you do not quote that... why?
Your are correct the clubs have been debating it, because THEY make the calls. Debating it on here IS old ground.
Look you own a paper, its not a big stretch to say that you obviously like to have your opinions heard and think that they are the best.
You have NO REAL INFLUENCE on this.
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Martyn
You keep quoting your poll as though it gives a fair view of the entire RL demographic and there view on this subject, when it clearly does not! And thats where you lose me straight away. Its your opinion surprisingly shared with some of your readers it does not mean its the best plan.................. We have heard your concerns a million times, I would say its time to stop bleating and let the Real decision makers in the game get on with sorting it out without your constant water muddying.
Please do not bother to reply to this statement, as I have no desire to be convinced or your motives or views............... its all old ground. -
As for hiring KPMG that is because of the complex nature of the calculations involved. And the RFL can not afford to retain staff to carry out one of audits etc. For instance you have to compare different sports models, why retain staff to do this what would they do the rest of the year?
Its a modern world and an organisation Like the RFL could not dream of keeping abreast of changing trends etc without outside guidance.
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Is this not somewhat obvious? Players in wanting to play for top clubs shocker!
Brilliant observation. I am afraid Martyn is way too entrenched to see the ass he is making of himself on this.
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There has been a lot of information put out, but none of it has included any evidence to show that people actually want it.
The structure is so complicated it reminds me of the awful 2007 Cricket World Cup that probably looked good to the accountants, but was an abject failure.
My guess/hope is that it lasts no more than two years before sense prevails.
If you find it complicated.............. you want to have a look at your self....................whats so complex about. 12 +12 = 24 8+8+8 = 24 . Are people not just getting further entrenched trying to defend the system they have been defending for the past 5 years, despite the fact that it has be proven a poor business model! The real truth is that most people do not give a fig, they go to watch their team play Rugby league and thats all that bothers them. Its only the Wanna be administrators on here who want to pore over every last detail.............. which is a pointless exercise as you have no say!!! I mean come on think about it!!! The Clubs run our game end of
The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Sorry cannot help, infact thats kind of the point............... We will not know the outcome until it is given a chance. Bit like going to the moon really you do not know you can do it until you try.
I may add that under licensing FEV were knocking at the door louder than anyone, and under this system I see our progress stalling a little. But its not just about MY team its about the good of the game and my view is we should give it a go.