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yanto

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Everything posted by yanto

  1. For you to throw a comment about like that may be disrespectful to the guy who you know nothing about, apart from his name on this forum. Some people may have that experience and more. Some people may have actually set up clubs, competitions and national sides. Some people may have experience with bringing in Kiwis and Aussies to play in Europe. (Proposed draft players??) Some people may have experience in the working of visas, embassies and working permits, even inside Europe never mind draft players from overseas. Some people may have organised travel, accommodation, meals, training venues, playing venues etc for incoming and outgoing teams and officials. Some people may have attracted sponsors, backers even TV coverage. Some people may actually surprise you what they have done when they are not sitting behind a keyboard. Some people may know that it takes more than money, pins in maps and loads of enthusiasm to turn ideas into reality and more importantly sustain and grow their plans. Look no further than failures of expansion in the pro game in the UK for example. I watch with interest and again wish them well.
  2. Over 15,000 in Tblisi when the Dutch played the world cup qualifier there in 2006.
  3. Don't think I ever said it is going to be a disaster. I have said I am watching with interest and good luck to them.
  4. Maybe some people, and the game in Europe, will lose something that has taken thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of euros to get to were we are today if this plan fails. As a rugby league fan even you wouldn't wish that? Its nothing to do with personal gain, anyone involved over the past twenty years is well out of pocket. Its about whats best for the game. Learning from past experiences and other groups trying to build something without the full support of the whole of the RLEF membership, it usually doesn't end well and the fall out can take a long long time to repair. The guy behind this has already failed to deliver on one of his projects yet is now proposing to bring in 56 draft players and set up clubs in places such as Moldova, Portugal and Austria to enter a Euro wide competition that has finance in place and TV contract signed. Even Catalans or Toronto couldn't achieve TV contracts yet an amateur competition with clubs not yet in place has done this!!! It is an amazing achievement and as I said if they pull it off its the greatest thing ever to happen to the sport. As for my "concern" not "really achieving a lot" I think I have achieved enough in 40 years service to be able to voice my concerns on a rugby league forum.
  5. "Caution" because the fall out IF this venture fails could have a lasting effect on any future development in Europe. Its not about one club on the other side of the Atlantic wanting to join an established competition, its about over 20 years of hard work, sweat, tears oh and MONEY spent by a lot of guys being undone, IMHO, by an over ambitious plan. Moldova Portugal, Austria... 56 draft players..!!! IF the numbers add up and the business plan is sound then what concerns me is why some of the more established continental league playing nations are still unsure and have publicly stated they will not enter clubs. They will have seen the proposals, added up the math and the potential of the competition yet are still not convinced it is in their best interests So your going to plant 2-5 Draft players in Austria for example and say " there you go get another 17 guys to make a squad. We will find some administrators to run the club then I expect you to be ready to launch a new club,find a venue, sponsors, players. Promote yourselves into the community. Build up a fan base and be ready to take part in a euro wide competition in 12 month's time.Then replicate this four or five times. !!! That is a massive undertaking. Why has it not been possible to do this before? It takes years of development on the ground knowing the culture of each country. Building bases and structures. I can't think of any other sport that has tried to plant artificial teams from an unknown sport into seven or eight countries, all at once, with no or very little knowledge of the sport in said countries and succeeded. That seems to be the plan. Failure could see European RL contract to the three or four nations of 20 years ago as people walk away disillusioned. Look at Georgia as an example. Sucess would be one of biggest.. NO THE biggest.. achievements in the history of the game. Serious I am very very interested in watching this unfold and again good luck and I wish them well.
  6. More from Twitter. "Due to the competiton being increased to 16 teams, the Draft system has been extended from 36 to 56 players. Each team will receive 2-5 Draft picks based on their squad strength. What do you think?" 56 draft players??? Where are these guys coming from.?? Teams from Portugal, Moldova and Austria? Not only are they setting up a new competition but are promising teams in nations with no League footprint at all. Amazing!!!
  7. OK so you are talking about a venture that may or may not be viable and yet your knocking guys like myself who are treading with caution and not being blinded by a few media releases!!!!! People are asking questions, putting over opinion yet are labelled luddites . How typically Rugby League ? Guess you ain't been around long enough to witness the damage to the game various other ventures that "have not been viable" have caused. Its not the first time Italy have promised great things that didn't come to fruition. The Greek tragedy (like that ?) World Rugby League... All grand plans with little substance. Even this guy at Valencia promised a big game last year that didn't happen. That should be enough to say " hang on let's hear more about this new competition please" . Serbia have been one of the leading nations regarding European development over the past ten years. Within their organisation they have Jovan Vujosevic and Colin Kleyweg, two important members of the RLEF. Both full of great vision on how to promote and improve the game on the continent. Red Star aligned themselves with the world famous football club and entered the challenge Cup to raise awareness. The Serbia RL livestream games and are very active on social media. Serbia TV stations show the NRL and Super League. Serbia were behind innovations like the European under 19 championships and the Balkan League. They have been on the brink of qualifying for the world cup more than once. They have imported a few top coaches and experienced league players to improve standards. Have a history of the game stretching back to the 1950's.They are very active in trying to push the game forward. Now after all this building, development and promotion, at a steady pace, show me crowds flocking to watch RL in Belgrade. Show me the local (or international) companies throwing money at the game. Show me the domestic Serbian TV stations offering big money to broadcast domestic or international games on TV. Show me players rushing to sign for Serbian clubs. Show me the success of a well planned and initially well executed Balkan League. In reality it just is not that simple. If the guys behind this project are thinking, like you, that the game can sell just because its "TGG" and they just have to show it and people will go WOW and flock to support it, then they are in for a rude and very expensive wake up call. I have doubts about its viability. Even at minimum costs its a very expensive and ambitious venture. If you also think it "may not be viable" then surely the energy, enthusiasm and finance these guys are promising could be directed at a more localised development plan rather than going European wide from the off. Substantial growth or boom and bust???? But hey as I said, good luck to them, live the dream ?
  8. Luddites ? NedBel.. Netherlands/Belgium competition lasted one season due to costs and travel. Balkans League Two (or was it three) seasons due to costs and travel. I keep repeating, unless the guys behind this venture have a massive backer or three and /or TV deal, then I and many other "Luddites" can't see how it can be viable. Can you honestly, hand in heart, believe a level of football lower than UK local leagues can attract money to run a European wide competition then sustain and grow it, when the money machine that is the NFL pulled out of Europe due to losing money hand over fist. I don't think you realise the cost of travel and accommodation in Europe and that's before they start paying draft players, wherever they are coming from, or how insignificant the game is on the continent ?? Anyway if the guys have a few million quid spare and a sound business plan then I wish them all the success in the world but until this is still around (and growing) in five years time I will be a European Luddite.
  9. First I would love to see money pumped into the game in Europe. As for national teams attracting fans players and media... National pride is a given no matter which country... the game is virtually unknown in Europe. No TV coverage of Super League or the NRL. Outside the small group of enthusiastic volunteers in each country, and its a very small group, no one knows the game.At least clubs could build into their communities were national sides would disappear behind other established sports. NFL pumped millions into the Euro League, attracted live TV, big crowds (Amsterdam around 25 - 30,000 in its peak. The German sides even more) great media coverage and still after a few years pulled the plug. If a massive sport like NFL, who know how to promote themselves couldnt survive how does one expect League to even make a dent. Guess your not from Europe.. If you speak English there are not many countries you will have language problems in. As for moving away from family and friends there has been plenty of young very talented Aussie and Kiwi guys playing in Europe for the travel and the experience. Give them a semi pro contract and you can then attract higher quality. I nearly had a kid who had just been released by St George come over this year. Imagine what the locals could have learned playing and training alongside him. If the comp is "National teams" those opportunities will not be available. To run a semi pro team you need income via sponsorship, gate receipts, sales or investment. In a saturated market that would be difficult if your playing a small sport with a group of unknowns and your up against numerous other sports that are well established. You have a massive task. Government funding is hard to come by, even government recognition in a lot of nations due to the game not being recognised by the GIASF, even though attempts are being made. As for a long term strategy I agree... That's what the European Championship is turning into with more countries now competing. Its taken 17 years to get to where it is today yet people seem to think turn these guys into semi pros and interest and investment in the game will come. Just look at Scarborough Pirates, Kent Invicta, Hemel Stags, Carlisle etc etc . They had the benefit of the game being known in the UK. They had the benefit of having decent players with basic rugby skills. They didn't survive long in the semi pro game yet people think Europe, with no or very little League background, can sustain a continent wide, 10 club /nation competition.? Again be it National teams or club teams someone is either going to have to find a millionaire invester or grow a money tree and anyone who has done the hard yards in Europe will tell you neither have been found so far. I would love to see the Netherlands v Serbia playing before a 20,000 crowd in Feyenoord stadium beamed live into 20 nations but will have to settle for 400 on a local park being filmed on a video recorder and uploaded to YouTube for a long time yet. But hey you gotta have ambitions. ?
  10. I started to respond to all you points then thought why bother because without massive investment it aint gonna happen anyway. IF your going to attract investers (and media) you need a product that is going to appeal and believe me this idea would be a hard hard sell.. Sorry in my view ..and its just my pesonal view after being involved in the game in Europe for nearly twenty years ...that having a Euro (Nations) XIII would take another twenty years to even get to Low level NCL league standard ...semi pro or not. and a massive amount of money that the game just does not have. It would take private investment and who would want to throw huge amounts of money at such a low level of the game ? . Its great people are coming up with ideas ..fantastic.... but the reality will hit if you do the math,even a rough calculation. The open poster is talking ten clubs of 20 players ....200 semi pro players who then have to also take time of work to travel. Then add the support staff . The logistic,the costs with travel, accomodation, wages, staging of games etc etc would be huge .Belgrade to Valencia,Oslo to Venice,Athens to Prauge..all a minimum of an overnight stay if flying .Bit different and a lot more expensive than going from Keighley to Workington. If anyone knows who would like to throw a few million quid ( a year !!!) at this, ask them to phone the RLEF or the guys looking to push Euro XIII. Good luck .
  11. So what do we do with the Aussies, Samoans, Fijans, Irish Welsh English Kiwi players who have been raising the standards in the local Dutch competition for the past five years.... for example? Their presence alongside the locals has seen the National side improve to an extend they went to a half decent Germany last year and won by a record score. If we went to national teams for this Euro XIII, as you suggest, then in my opinion you are taking away a valuable development tool which is experienced players leading the locals on the park. 20 Dutchman running around with no leadership, no matter how good the coaching, would take 20 years to get up to even lower NCL standard. The reason the national side has improved is because of playing and training along side "league guys" week in week out for Den Haag, Amsterdam or Rotterdam. Not top class players either but just guys who are more knowledgeable about the onfield game. Take that away and fill the Euro XIII with players who only qualify to play for their country and you would soon see a drop in standard's of the (National) Euro XIII team. The level of MOST European national sides is park level at best... That's not being disrespectful that's being honest. I reckon an other nationalities team made up of none Dutch players from the local comp would comfortably defeat the National side I'm not sure that would be of any benefit in trying to sell a competition to investors and the media. If it has any legs at all then this concept needs to be of a higher level than the current national teams. Adding four or five experienced draft players to clubs will raise standards all across the board and still allow the local players to continue improving through their "feeder" local comps until they reach the required standard. Just look at all the work Serbia has put in over the last 15 years. Must be 95% local players, making great strides at home and in lower RLEF competitions. The truth about their real standards hits home when they face experienced " league" nations. If Serbia, one of the continents success stories, still struggle at the next level, with only local players, then how many years and how much investment do you think your proposals would take to lift a Nations Euro XIII to a level to even match say the Cumberland League or North West Counties Premier ?? Not being negetive not knocking your well thought out ideas. Just putting it out there.
  12. Talking names... Ian McQuorcodale, Ian Thompson, Ian Rudd, Ian Wright.. Workington Town back line in the late 70s and Ian Hartley in the forwards. Got a bit confusing who the coach was shouting at ??
  13. Is watch nrl geo blocked in Canada?? Worth the pennies.
  14. RLEF has its membership and all domestic competitions are ran under the governance of the RLEF. If we didn't have this body in place to control what is happening, then all kinds of competitions would be popping up. Look at the rival Italian groups a few years ago and more recently the split in Greece or even World Rugby and the trouble they caused. You NEED a governing body to sanction competitions. As this proposal includes clubs affiliated to the RLEF through their national bodies and is planned to be a Euro wide competition its obvious why the RLEF should be involved in some capacity. Maybe if Euro XIII had approached( and outlined their business plan and ideas to) the RLEF before going public then what seems like becoming a ###### for tat public fall out could have been avoided. Who knows, both parties could have come to some agreement that would have benefited everyone.
  15. If you check back you actually started a thread about a European club competition a few weeks ago that was a RLEF / Red Star concept so how can you now say they have done nothing in setting up a European league ???
  16. That will be due to the fact that it's Red Star Belgrade and RLEF board member Colin Kleyweg who are behind the other proposal. Now is not the time to distance themselves without even talking to the Euro XIII group and trying to get everyone singing of the same song sheet. How often do we see the game being held back due to the inability to bring all ideas to the table and discussing compromise for the good of the game
  17. In 17 years the RLEF has grown its membership from nine to now playing the game at some level in over 20 European countries, plus the African and American nations that fall under their umbrella. They have secured Erasmus funding which in turn has led to grants towards development of coaches and referees throughout Europe. They have created a meaningful international calander with promotion and relegation and given developing countries like Greece a pathway into the World Cup final stages. I attended the meeting in Paris in 2003 when the RLEF was formed and to say they have "done nothing" shows how much you know about what is going on at grassroots level on the continent. Representatives attended that inaugural meeting from rugby league organisations in Morocco, the Netherlands, Italy, Serbia, Russia, Lebanon, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. With very little funding the RLEF has done well to get where it is today and for them to be looking at a professional game (before this Spanish /Italian concept arose) involving European Clubs shows they are still pushing forward. What we need now is for all parties to get together and work out how they can progress as a group to bring these ideas into a reality. What the game doesn't need is another split due to personal egos. PS. I have had many a run in with the RLEF but credit must be given when due. ?
  18. Eddie the lady in question did infact play in the mens competition a couple of years back for Harderwijk Dolphins. Despite a lot of objections from the other (male) players ,due to them seeing it as a health risk for her, Steph took her case to the RLEF and was granted permission to play. Strange one that !! She is now the secretary of the NRLB (Nederlandse Rugby League Bond) and co-founder of Zwolle Wolves. I dont think she has any more ambitions to play in the mens competition because it has developed physically into a decent comp and she is now way out of her comfort zone. Great lass and 150% RL.
  19. For you Northern folk ? Sv-woo-la I live in the Netherlands for over twenty years.
  20. Not disputing any of that. But why as a subscriber to RL World can I not access the article in TR Premier. Do I have to register or something??
  21. Eddie do you use the same log in for the Premium as you do for the forum ? I thought if I subscribed to the magazine I could also see the Premium content but I am locked out with my forum log in and my email (which it asked for ) .
  22. I subscribe for RL world (digital) and I am still waiting for March edition to arrive on my Kindle. Never complained.. Strange times we are living in.. Everything running late or held up.. Understandable.. So if I subscribe to a copy of digital RL World am I allowed to read Premium TR reports because neither my forum name nor my email will let me access the premium content, or am I expected to pay twice??
  23. Hmmmm .. heartlands news available to read....Development news behind a Premium pay wall and then we ask why we struggle to spread the game.
  24. Flew into Oslo on sunday ...had a check at immigration (never ever had to go through immigration before in my ten years working in Norway) quick check ..well slow check really ..45 minutes to an hour..and I am allowed through. Checking the international flights being allowed into Norway and it seems Amsterdam,London,Stockholm and Copenhagen are the only ones .Why I have no idea. Before entering baggage reclaim I then have a temperature check and a few questions regarding my well being from a doctor and thats it Im free to carry on. Collected a company car parked in the car park drove a little over four hours to a rather isolated hotel where myself and six Polish workers (who came in by ferry and road through Germany,Denmark and Sweden) will now sit in Quarantine for 14 days. If we are clear we then resume work on 4th May. I am not sure in anyone is actually checking we do the 14 days quarantine and travelling through Oslo city on the way down here it was a cross between the Oslo Marathon,Tour de Norway and Crufts dog show .....there were that many people out enjoying the sun along the fjord side. But Norway has seemed to have handled the situation pretty well,schools are opening up and people are allowed to travel to their mountain cabins from yesterday. Workers are being allowed to re enter the country (under rules) but its going to be a while before I get home. usually work 14 days on 14 days home but due to the 14 days quarantine regulations I am not allowed to leave the country or I have to start over . So its looks like I will get 14 days holiday in Norway at the company expense after every 14 day rota until they relax the quarantine rules. See how it goes .
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