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Posts posted by Johnoco

  1. 3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

    Pretend it's not Covid. Pretend it's just a surge in hospitalisations caused by anything. Regardless of what that is, if hospitals get full because of this then there isn't space for them to do anything else. On a personal level it's the equivalent of being booked in for a routine operation that then gets cancelled at the last minute because your surgeon is needed to stitch someone back together whose just been in a road traffic accident.

    Accepting that Covid is here to stay means accepting day after day, week after week, month after month, and, possibly, year after year, of your surgeon being called away to road traffic accidents.

    We're two years into a global pandemic and if anyone tells us they have a guaranteed way out of it then they're lying or that if we just behave in certain ways then everything will be normal then they're lying.

    That can be really hard to accept. The feeling of helplessness and lack of control is not nice at all.

    I'd liken the situation more to having a bomb in your garden from the second world war. You can live there for many years blissfully happy, unaware what lurks there. But once it's pointed out that it's there, it becomes a serious issue - one that you might not have had reason to deal with.

    Likewise, the constant living under lockdown or the threat of another one (and no guarantee that we won't be doing exactly the same thing in 6-12 months) is going to seriously mindf##k a lot of people, even if they don't fully realise it now. 

    We will have a LOT of damaged people. 

    • Like 2
  2. 33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

    Non political response

    I don't think worrying about it on a personal level makes you, or anyone else a big girl's blouse. What I would say, is that most of the evidence shows that there was no surge in mental health issues during lockdown (for example, the stats around an increase in suicide were shown to be untrue as the rate stayed the same (too high but the same)). So the impacts on you, like all mental health, will not be universal to all.

    Hopefully, people are more prepared to support friends and family this time around, if it does happen. For those without that support network, or people who get a lot out of social activities, then I suspect more will be open (albeit with mask/social distancing etc restrictions) than before. For example, we know a lot more know about the relatively low risks in open air transmission so I can't see that anyone, for example, would stop mixing in parks/playing golf as they did before.

    It doesn't help that the post Christmas winter season is pretty much known for being the worst time of year for 'coping' as the darkness and cold does not help.

    Not for everyone but one thing that I did a couple of years ago that helped was RED January - where the RED stands for 'run everyday' but, basically, any movement is fine. Getting out for a walk (etc) even on days when that didn't feel like a great idea was very helpful. Something like that is essentially lockdown proof.


    Political response

    The balance between competing healthcare issues is very real. And if we end up with a situation where covid hospitalisations are out of control then all healthcare, including mental health services, will suffer.


    All the more reason to perhaps accept Covid is here to stay and not throw most of our resources at it at the expense of everything else.


  3. 23 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

    Obviously medical science factors in mental health into sweeping measures when looking to preserve the capacity of the health service to function.  These are still difficult times with difficult choices to be undertaken

    Some psychological damage to people generally, particularly where people are more vulnerable, isn’t to be taken lightly.  But then neither is the spectre of completely overwhelmed hospitals, with people dying who shouldn’t have died given adequate resourcing.

    What I will say is that lockdown has been a shared experience that most people can relate with (although there will always be differences in how acute it has felt).  I would hope this would make it easier for people to talk about it.


    I'd say Christmas was a stressful time for many, regardless of Covid or not. And for others, a lonely sad one remembering departed loved ones. But overall it's a celebratory feel and taking that away - again - would do a lot of damage. 

    The thing about mental problems is that they don't usually appear straight away. Like escaping a burning building, at the time you just focus on getting out. It's only when you are safe that you might sit down and freak out about what just happened. 

  4. Non Political Post 

    I think, were there to be another lockdown - especially over Xmas - the damage to peoples mental state would be much worse than last time. Last time was hard to take for many but most people could at least see the reasoning and knuckle down until the end. 

    But now it was supposed to be ending, to have that carrot dangled and taken away would be gutting. I'm genuinely not sure how I would feel, I just hope it doesn't happen. 

    NB If you think worrying about this makes you a big girls blouse and you should just crack on and pull yourself together, please refrain from expressing that on here.

    • Like 4
  5. 3 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said:

    This one is for Futtocks.


    One of my favourite songs ever. Written in 1969 and shows it's a longstanding complicated problem. However, it's something I try to help with both financially and practically wherever I can.

    If I can, I always try to chat with genuine homeless people (there are frauds aplenty) and not just ignore them. Not sure there's a worse feeling than being cold, alone scared and invisible. 

  6. 3 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

    Whilst we might not agree at all times with our political views I hope that you're OK Johnoco. The politics Forum can be a vipers nest at times for anyone and I hope that you're able to shrug it off. I value your contributions on there and the rest of the site but if you need to back off then that is completely understandable.

    At this time of year more than any other I genuinely hope you and everyone else is happy and coping well.

    (Thanks, appreciate it but don't worry about me)

    But does it matter if you are coping if you are pro Brexit or have a differing opinion on *anything* to do with Covid? Possibly not, you might get a comment about lowering the collective IQ or something. Or possibly told to go to Switzerland. 

    My point is....as much as we talk about caring...if someone has a different viewpoint to you, they are fair game to denigrate. (Not merely disagreeing with or counter arguing)

    On here anyway. 

  7. 26 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

    Chaps, would be a great shame if this thread was to end being caught up in the overspill from political arguments elsewhere.

    Might be worth starting a new thread elsewhere and allow this one to stay as neutral ground.

    Feel quite strongly about this.

    No, it's absolutely not worth starting a new thread about. 

    I'm highlighting how people on here can pretend to be all concerned about mental health, yet if you don't agree with them politically, they are happy to make jokes about it or dismiss your concerns. Basically, it's a set of bullies belittling people but because they are left of centre, think they have moral superiority. 

    I have debated on here for many years. I've had arguments with many, if not most people but usually it's been handbags and we've 'shook hands' and moved on. Not so anymore.

  8. On 13/12/2021 at 08:38, JohnM said:

    That hypocrisy is one reason why I won't join the political sub forum.  

    You do right. The language meted out to people of a different political opinion is pretty shocking really. 

    It's sad to see the state it has become with a few nasty individuals.... who obviously try to put themselves across as nice guys but are anything but. 

    • Like 1
  9. 2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

    My post doesn't refer to your view on that. But you state that there was no evidence. That is the claim I'm interested in. 

    That's your prerogative. But traditionally, trials and sentences have generally relied on evidence. You seem ok with verdicts that back up your own personal opinion, whether true or not but again that's your call. 

    I won't point out that I didn't say there definitely was no evidence, only that there didn't seem to be any ON THE FACE OF IT. Because that bit will be ignored. 




  10. 10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

    Could you link to the findings that you have read, you obviously know more than the rest of us?

    I have no idea whether he did this. But I do know that we have a disciplinary that often plays down things like this. 

    But as things stand it is relevant to describe him as guilty. 

    Go on then, point out the bit where I expressed an opinion on his guilt or innocence.

    In your own time.

  11. 20 minutes ago, Curly perm said:

    But you don’t know what other factors were taken into consideration. Chisholm may not have presented a great argument, he might’ve claimed to have called him a joystick (ridiculous example, but you get my point - we don’t know). 

    I don't know, which is why I aren't offering an opinion on whether he is guilty or innocent. That's why I said there doesn't*seem* to be much evidence to back up the allegations. 

  12. 23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

    I called him guilty because he has been found guilty. 

    I'm the one respecting process. You are not. 


    You're respecting a process that finds people guilty without any evidence except hearsay or verbal accusations. 

    But you might revise your opinion on it when it turns round and bites you on the arris. You are as liable as anyone else to be accused of something by someone. Let's hope they don't bother with trivial stuff like whether you did it or not and simply believe the accuser. 


  13. 12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

    There is always a risk of dishonesty, but the choice here is that you believe the accuser or you believe the accused in a 1 v 1 debate. 

    I don't understand your last para. Nobody has judged anyone without the presented evidence. 

    You've pretty much said he's guilty as the panel found him such. The problem, at least on the face of it, seems to be that there was no one who could actually corroborate the story. 

    But why would you automatically believe one or the other in such a scenario? Surely it still stands that one is innocent until proven guilty, or there is at least compelling evidence to indicate otherwise.

    I know you won't see it but that's kangaroo court thinking. 

    • Like 1
  14. 3 minutes ago, dkw said:

    What makes you think that hasn't happened here, I still haven't seen an official explanation from the RFL on this ban that explains their decision. 

    I've no idea what happened here in reality. I'm saying nothing other than the point has been raised that we should automatically believe any accusations anybody makes against another person. I think this is the murky path, not the other way. 

  15. 40 minutes ago, Dave T said:

    What is the solution though? And obviously we don't know how the panel came to their verdict. 

    It is a tricky situation, but it does lead us down a mirky road if we don't believe victims in one on one incidents. I'm thinking of more serious situations than this one. 

    We end up with a situation like the Jussie Smollet case. Whereby people make up fake attacks but are instantly believed because they are 'a victim'.

    It's possibly better to exercise caution and see what the evidence presents, or is that ridiculously old fashioned? 

    • Like 3
  16. 2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

    Good misrepresentation.

    Oh is it? So the post I said never happened? And I definitely didn't get told "what a ridiculous reaction" either 

    Tell you what, save your sympathy and advice for people who agree with you politically. 

    You see, as wise as you think you are, you've no idea what affects people or goes on in their head. This is why apparently happy go lucky people kill themselves.  What you can brush off, others may struggle and vice versa. Just because you think something isn't a big deal, doesn't mean you can ridicule somebody that does find it a big deal. 

    So, carry on. 

  17. Good to see a lot of hypocrisy on this board. 

    On the 'coronavirus politics thread' I've been arguing that many people  are, or will be, suffering mental anguish from the whole situation. Only to be ridiculed and told I was being ridiculous. Effectively saying 'man up and get on with it'. One kind (r) soul suggested that I go to Switzerland to end it all. Which got a few laughing reactions, so obviously it was funny. 

    This is purely down to political differences but to me is a disgraceful attitude. 

    Anyway guys, back to being kind eh? 

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1
  18. Waiting for Mrs to get ready yesterday I started watching Johnny English. I remember taking the lads to see that at the cinema first time around and they loved it. 

    But what I'd forgotten -and why I got a telling off from Mrs- was how utterly beautiful Natalie Imbruglia was. I must have had my eyes on stalks and tongue on the floor. (Like one of those cats on Tom & Jerry when they see the girl cat)


    • Like 1
  19. 11 hours ago, groundhopper said:

    So can I claim the prize

    I had my fist child at 35 and now have 6 including a stepdaughter

    The youngest was born when I was 59

    I cannot argue that is not fair in many ways on the child when the father is my age

    When he is 18 I will be 77 if still around

    Obviously and thankfully the mother is younger than myself but will still be 57

    Even more obviously I am frequently knackered especially as still working 60 hours a week 

    Work takes me away frequently which gives me a break

    Posted from a hotel in Berwick on Trent whilst visiting houses affected in last weekends storms   


    Are you Julio Iglesias? 😬

  20. 2 hours ago, Ullman said:

    Bought I'm an Upstart when it came out and pleased to say I still have it.

    Really sorry to hear that Mensi has passed away.

    Thing about Mensi was that many people, even within the punk scene, disagreed with him and he created a few enemies. But he never wavered for a second - even when it kicked off at gigs. I still don't agree with him on many, if not most  things, but he was as genuine as they come.

    • Like 1
  21. 3 minutes ago, Phil said:

    As we’ve discussed in the past, I did roadie/security work for them back in the day. Stage crew were treat as members of the band, all in it together, I remember a great night at the Royal Standard in Manningham Lane, the place went crazy 😜 

    I was too young to go to gigs around that time, when them, Cockney Rejects etc played there, so I am well envious of you. 

    Just been listing the times I saw them and records I used to have. Must admit I underated them myself. I had 'Upstart' on green vinyl and Teenage Warning on red vinyl. Wish I'd kept them....

    • Like 1
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