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Exiled Wiganer

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Posts posted by Exiled Wiganer

  1. 1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

    You have it a bit backwards there.  The International game can't generate profits for ILR and individual federations unless those Internationals become big events played by full time pros, and for that a league must first exist which can provide somewhere for full time pros from all the relevant countries to play.  Until that league does exist, there won't be any profitable Internationals other than those against Australia and New Zealand.

    I tend not to respond to AFL trolls, but in this case I will make an exception. This is complete nonsense - all of PNG, Tonga, Samoa, France, Fiji or Wales have played profitable internationals in front of 5 figure crowds without NZ and Aus. Indeed, we could have run a superb tournament with those teams. plus England, had we had a year’s notice that they could not be bothered coming.

    You could sell many 10s of thousands of tickets for a Tonga - England series (which I would much prefer to playing NZ), and every game would be a classic. This down playing of the rest of the world is wilful ignorance/stupidity. It’s like the poster who dismisses the 4 minutes notice as “shabby”. No, it is far far worse than that - it entirely exploded the tournament for no benefit to anyone (unless the NRL considers every other nation suffering to be a benefit). 

    • Like 6
  2. But they don’t need to destroy the rest of the world to achieve their aims. They could, instead, ask for control of TV rights for all Aussie games and bundle them into their TV deal. They could put a price on developing players across the Pacific. They could make a list of the things that the IRL does in which they have no interest, and the game can form a view as to how the money would be raised to keep those going (eg funding the ERL). The IRL and other bodies have 2 very different roles - acting as a not for profit development tool for new countries and forms of the game across the world, and organising internationals. The 2 could easily be separated. 

    There is an adult conversation to be had, which has not been had, and that is to everyone’s detriment. 

    • Like 3
  3. 3 minutes ago, Damien said:

    This is quite correct. It's completely obvious why SOO is pushed as the pinnacle by the NRL and media corporation that shows it.

    The facts are that Australia get 100% revenue from SOO. They get minimal or no revenue from a World Cup. Even tournaments like 4 nations or tests they share revenue with others. This is why they now want to control internationals RL too, which we have seen stated and which has started through the NRL Pacific Tests.

    But even if they do, the key point here is that they have the power and the influence to bring that about. It really wouldn’t take much for them to say to the rest of the world “we think that we can make more money and run a better International Board than the current people” and make that happen.

    As long as they have a vision for the whole international game, and are prepared to invest in developing the game around the world, as well as putting in place an interesting international calendar, then we could well be better off. Instead, everything they have done recently suggests that they would prefer to have no international games at all. I have seen absolutely nothing constructive from them before and since they exploded the World Cup.  

    • Like 1
  4. 1 hour ago, DC77 said:

    They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.”

    Do you genuinely believe this? Didn’t State of Origin take off because of the absence of a top quality international scene? When the Aussies make those great player lists they don’t look outside their shores (which maybe gingerjon would see as insular). They don’t respect the standard outside Australia, and will only consider including a player in such a list who has played in the NRL. I’ve heard in NRL commmetary “such and such a player is good enough for an Queensland/NSW jumper”. Again, this could be construed as insular, or it could just be (like their greatest players list and the NRL) they see Origin as the highest level. 

    Don’t English lads talk about the prospect of playing in the NRL as being the ultimate for them? Think I heard a few in the Mick Gledhill podcasts. Players in the Scottish Premiership do this with the Premier League. 

    I have tried to follow your train of thought, but i am really struggling to see what the point your trying to make is. If it’s NRL have loads of money and the Aussies never lose so they view the international game differently from us, then, err, yes that’s so. I think that would be worth a separate thread, but what this thread is about (without being presumptuous) is THIS World Cup and what they have done over to the rest of the game in the last 3 weeks.

     

    If their view has always been exactly as you describe, then they should have raised this in one of the dozens of meetings they attended, seeing first hand the real live thousands of hours spent by hundreds of people to put this together. They could have saved everyone a great deal of trouble by withdrawing at any time earlier than when they chose to do so - on 4 minutes notice. Pretty much everyone on this thread knows the reality of where the power resides, what matters here is how that power has been exercised. 

    By all means, though, start a thread on reasons why the Aussies are justified in viewing the rest of the world with contempt. I think that would be an interesting discussion point. 

    • Like 7
  5. I like this - genuine fantasy football, with an imaginary international game. 
     

    Verdict: NRL introduces its own form of football in which all players who want to play internationals are allowed on the same pitch with each side having their own ball for 10 minutes every 8 years, as part of the Australian “vision” for the game. 

  6. 13 hours ago, bobrock said:

    I think you missed my point. If you want everybody to agree that NRL and ARL behaved badly, fair enough. I just said that what happened is inevitable if a league ( i.e. a group of clubs ) is much more powerful than the governing body to which it should be technically subjected ( the ALR ). In theory the FA rules over all kind of football played in England, but is the EPL really subject to them ? FIFA is strong enough to stage a World Cup in November, but it's just them. Nothing can be compared to FIFA, surely not IRL.

    I

    I did not miss your point at all. I was drawing out that this issue today is around a particular set of facts at a particular time. There are lots of reasons why the NRL might think as they do, but those issues have been around for years. It is not inevitable that a league, or any group of people behaves appallingly, and seeks to damage everyone in sight for no reason. The NRL could have pulled the plug on this any time in the last 5 years, but chose their moment with complete disregard for the rest of the sport. This isn’t a debate about player release, or the balance of power, or even the timetable for the international game, this is naked bullying of the worst sort. 

    • Like 6
  7. I think we are in danger of mixing up a few things here. It is possible to argue that the Australians are justified in feeling that international RL is not to their benefit, and it is possible to argue that they would be better running the whole show. If that’s what you want to argue, start a new thread on it. Indeed, there could even be one about the NFL/NHL approach. These are important points. 

    What this thread concerns is the here and now - an actual World Cup, in which the ARL has been front and centre for each month for the last 5 years. At any point, they could have made it clear that withdrawal was a possibility. Instead, they got to 4 seconds to midnight and then exploded the tournament, bringing NZRL with them. Even their “the Aussies are the great ones, and you are all losers” posters on this thread do not dispute that. They did not consult their own players, and they did not engage in a dialogue prior to their announcement. There is no other way of looking at that than that it was a betrayal of the international game, and to borrow Dutton’s word, it treated the organisers with “contempt”. 

    As far as everyone else in the international game is concerned, they are worse off as a consequence - every other nation playing our game. Plus, hundreds of paid and unpaid tireless workers have had their work trashed and traduced, on no notice. The game has to find a way to move on, but just because you’re big enough to smash everyone else’s head in doesn’t mean that’s the right thing to do.

    • Like 9
  8. We now know where we stand. The Aussies are not playing the same sport, and will go out of their way to destroy us. 
    We are back where we were in 1895, but the strength of our game has got us through in the past and will do so again. I have watched a lot of sport recently but was absorbed and thrilled by the Wire Leeds game in a way I had not been by pretty much anything (aside from Cav’s resurrection at the Tour). We are facing an existential threat, and need to do everything we can to keep our own flags flying. 

    • Like 7
    • Thanks 1
  9. The previous page had an excellent article, which looks on the money. What it doesn’t draw out is that it’s actually even worse than that, as the NRL/ARL could have done this at any time at all over the last 10 years.
     

    The reality is that the money and the power has resided with them for a long long time. Given that not only are they masters of their own fate they control the media which reports on them, they could have made half a dozen phone calls at any point in time and achieved the same goal without detonating the work of hundreds of true leaguies around the world. 
     

    if it was ignorance, that would be inexcusable, if it was contempt (to borrow John’s word) then that would show them for the sorts of people they are, but this deliberately malicious destruction of the hopes and dreams of the rest of the international community must surely be without precedent in any sport at any time. Until this year, what France went through was the lowest point for our game. But that was a different sport, seeking to destroy a competitor… here it’s the Red Wedding. 

    • Like 5
  10. “The World Cup is the only event which has kept the IRL afloat...” 

    That is completely disingenuous. The World Cup makes the money which supports the international game (with its 60 odd members). It is the most successful event the game has had in over 100 years, and has allowed many players to play for their countries and many countries to benefit. As well as that, it generates enough money to subsidise the rest of the calendar. 

    “And it is in jeopardy.” 

    Because of the 4 minute warning NRL. 

    So, to tweak this for accuracy, the World Cup has been an unqualified success, allowing the IG to grow as never before, and so we will crush it. 

    • Like 2
  11. 37 minutes ago, JohnM said:

    Others may feel and act differently of course but this is my position. I will continue to watch on TV as many International, SL and NRL games as I can, and attend as many games in person where my health and personal Covid safety considerations allow. To do otherwise is in my view to submit to the bullying of Vlandis and Gould and proving them right.

    Of course, it's difficult not to feel anger, betrayal and disgust at the forces of cant and hypocrisy from Vlandis and Gould and co but i would not stoop so low as to send both of  them by post  a White feather in an envelope addressed "Private and confidential for the personal attention of Mr P Gould"

    I won’t be watching the NRL any time soon, but of course each ti their own. We should put NRL threads into cross code, given that they have their own rules on and off the pitch.

    • Like 5
    • Confused 1
  12. 18 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

    That’s my understanding too.

    But given the past outright hostility the NRL has shown to internationale I’d be really interested in knowing what steps the RLWC took to prevent this happening. And how come we got this late before it was revealed that participation agreements hadn’t been signed.

    He answered these questions in his interview. 

    • Like 1
  13. 1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

    To run it successfully, you must first want it to succeed. 

    Which is true. And they may not. Indeed they probably don’t. But they are big enough and strong enough to present their case. The key people in this are the players - what do they want to happen? How much does international football matter to them? If enough of them care, then even the NRL ought to take that into account. If instead none of them cares and they only want to play SoO, then we are left with a potential SL and semi pro international game. I suspect plenty of them would like to play, and the NRL knows this, because they didn’t ask them in advance, but let’s have a proper debate. 

    • Like 1
  14. 4 minutes ago, steavis said:

    Simple: Nine and Fox don't want an upstart like SportsFlick entering the market. The NRL changed their rules for Nine and Fox and took the games off their own platforms to placate them. Nine and Fox run rugby league in Australia 

    Which in a way is fine, if that’s the reality. They have had years to work out how they want to use their power, and come up with a plan. Their approach, lest we forget, was instead to wait till 4 minutes to midnight to explode a tournament on which the world game was entirely dependent. 

    I have no particular issue with the NRL’s argument that they develop the players, and that they should have a major say in the international game. Let’s have an open debate around that, and involve the players. How about let’s not destroy the IRL, the RFL and the hopes and plans of developing the international game for the next 4 years while we are going about it. 

    • Like 2
  15. 4 minutes ago, Allora said:

    Tough guy.

    You still as tough when some ones close to you dies,

    Are you sure you are neither for or against?

    To recap, the A/NRL want to cancel this year’s World Cup, and gave the organisers 4 minutes notice that was their intention, bringing NZRL with them. They had asked for a set of COVID protocols, which have been given to them: there is ample precedent for these measures working (particularly when allied with the offer of vaccines). They did not ask the players. They have idly suggested that maybe 2022, lolz, without addressing the pretty much insurmountable barriers. They know the impact that cancelling the event will have on the rest of the world game, because their directors have spent the last 5 years sitting through monthly board meetings on the subject. This is all in the public domain. 

    It is purely us and them - they unilaterally announced their withdrawal in a manner which they knew would cause the maximum damage to the international game, with no Plan B, and having had their concerns specifically addressed. They aren’t even bothering to address any of those points. Their behaviour by any measure is actively hostile to every other rugby league playing nation, and seemingly many of their own players. 

    • Like 5
  16. 8 hours ago, yipyee said:

    Leeds are not even in the top 6 and still have catch up games with the likes of Saints, cant believe youve missed wigan off too. They are similar to Leeds season but have more points to show for it.

    If we keep playing every week we stand no chance. 

    • Haha 1
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