Saint Toppy

No thanks, King is just about as average as average gets - nowhere near as good as any of the British props we've already got. If we need any Aussies to play for England we'll at least ask for good ones, not bang average ones like King !

Looks like Wellens is likely to be the new Saints coach. Sculthorpe may have inadvertently let the cat out the bag with an interview for the local paper; Scully talking about Wellens:- “Aside from St Helens, he’s worked with Wayne Bennett, Shaun Wane, Steve McNamara and Tony Smith to name a few. I just hope the Saints faithful give him that chance too.” BetFred have also now suspended all bets on the new coach, with them as having Wellens as favourite as well

I must admit i'm struggling to find the full Stats for the 2 seasons. The only one's I had to work from was an article done after Round 5 which showed in 2021 by that stage there were 16 charges brought and 13 bans, and by the same stage in 2022 there had been 45 charges brought and 34 bans handed out.

There's always going to be contentious disciplinary outcomes and there were certainly plenty before this season. However what's noticeable this year is the sheer number of players getting banned, many of which appear to be for fairly innocuous incidents. IMO they've not quite got the balance right between player welfare (and protecting the RFL from legal actions), and the game as a spectacle where fans want to be able to watch the best players on the pitch each week. Nothing is going to change immediately and I do fear that the disciplinary panel are going to have a big say in the play-off's and ultimately the GF winners this year, but hopefully they undertake their review in the off-season and make some adjustments.

Well for a start Hudds offered Fages double what saints offered to stay to lure him over the pennines

I think you misunderstand my quote about money. Hudds have wealthy owners and Watson could pretty much buy the new players he wanted for his team (like Fages, Lolhea etc.). If this was a Salford or a Wakefield finishing 3rd that would be a massive achievement given the budget constraints clubs like that have and the lack of choice their coaches have had to bring in new players. For me Rowley taking Salford to the play-off's with what he's had to work with is a far bigger achievement that what Watson has done at Hudds. IMO Rowley should win Coach of the year.

Is it that much of an achievement given the money & players at their disposal ? What you can say about Hudds is they've always been consistently inconsistent in the league. Over the last 5 years they've finish 5th (2018), 10th (2019), 7th (2020), 9th (2021) and now 3rd. For me the big test is whether Watson can sustain a top 4 finish in years to come or whether we see their regular drop off.

Close for an hours but Cats by 20 in the end

Someone better tell Hetherington - he's been spectacularly stupid all year

Leeds season ends next weekend - so yeah Newman is gone for the season

I thought the rule was Under 21 at the start of the season.

Gotta agree about Murphy, thought he'd be in there instead of Lewis, who I don't think has had anywhere near as good a year as he had in 2021.

I'm sure there will be a whole new thread on this (again) but for me one of the big problems with a lack of depth is the fact that every SL club can have 7 overseas players and the Championship cubs its a complete free for all. Even a small change by lowering the limit to 5 would make a huge difference. An extra 24 Brits being able to show what they can do every week in SL would be a massive benefit to the international coach.

This is the classic pick players on form or reputation argument. For me Marshall & Murphy have been the 2 best left wingers in SL this year, plenty of pace, clinical finishers and match winners for their clubs. Both thoroughly deserve to be in the squad and a chance as a starting winger. Similar for Batchelor, I thought he was Saints best forward in last years GF and he's continued that form in 2022. Its not that he's just had a few outstanding games, he's been consistently good all year

How do you know they don't have the ability to step up - they haven't been given the chance ? People were saying that Batchelor was just a squad filler when he joined Saints as he wasn't good enough to become a regular starter - 2 Yrs later look at him now, one of the best performing players at the club.

Yep the same Davies whos in the England squad, has been picked previously by Wane and played pretty well at that level. Having said that I'd still pick Marshall over both of them - he's having an outstanding year, and then Murphy would be my next choice.

I'm not going to name my preferred team until we know who's actually available. There's quite a few players struggling to be fit, particularly in the backs. In the backs there's probably only a small number of players guaranteed a place - Tomkins as he's captain, Makinson on one wing, Welsby and Lomax. The other wing position probably has 3 players fighting for the spot, Davies, Marshall & Murphy. Centre is a massive problem at the moment as none of the players who would most likely have been picked are remotely fit. Newman is gone for the year, Percival hasn't played for 3 months (and is only 50/50 to make it back for the play-off's) and Farnworth in a similar position. The only other English centre who's shown any sort of form is Wardle. King's form has dropped off a cliff from where he was a few seasons ago. Assuming Percival & Farnworth don't make it the most likely centre pairing would be Wardle & Welsby. I just hope to god Wane doesn't do like dumb ass Bennett and start playing a back rower like Bateman at centre. Half back is another serious problem with the only player who's played well this year being Lomax. Williams has been seriously hit & miss all year (1 half decent game followed by 5-6 anonymous ones). Neither Pryce or Lewis have really kicked on this year as most people would have hoped from their 2021 form, and Hastings has been gash. At this stage it will probably Williams who get the nod at 7 along side Lomax, largely because there isn't anybody else. Aside from hooker the rest of the Forwards are pretty OK for depth & options. Walmsley (assuming he's fit), Bateman & Knowles are probably automatic picks at prop, SR & LF so its down to Wane's preferences as to who starts in the other prop & SR spots Though there's probably question marks over Thompson's fitness he's probably going to get a spot somewhere in the team. Hooker is another problem area this year. sadly Roby won't come out of retirement and none of the other options have been consistently good. McShane & Clarke have had really poor years compared to past seasons form and McIlorum i've never really rated at that level aside from being a tough tackling machine. Probably the most consistent this year has been Leeming, though I have serious concerns over some of his decision making. I think Wane's most likely choice is going to be starting with McIlorum & have Leeming on the bench. Without wanting to be all doom & gloom I think England have some serious problems with quality & squad depth and I can't see them beating Aus, NZ or Tonga.

Just what England needs then a half back who lets a truly 2nd rate half back try and shine when his team is bottom of the league !!! Hastings has had a poor season and been outplayed by his half back partner who lets face it is truly awful. Brooks is probably one of THE worst half backs in the NRL

Played 16 of 24 games. For a half back who's supposed to be the key play maker, kicker & organiser his stats are awful ! Luke Brooks has only played 1 game more with 17 games yet managed 10 try assists, 12 Line Break assists and put in 40 more kicks.

So good he doesn't even make the Top 50 in the Stats tables for Tackle breaks, Line Breaks, Try Assists, 40/20s, Tries. Though he has made the 23rd most kicks in the NRL this year !! - Great season he's having

So you want to pick a centre who's out for the season, a centre who hasn't played since May and may not play again this year, another centre who's out injured and may not play again this year, an Australian 13 at hooker who's barely played at 9, a badly under-performing hooker, a winger who still makes so many rookie mistakes at club level, a scrum half at 6 who's had a pretty ordinary season and an Aussie 7 who's been pretty poor all year. Does that just about sum it up !!

Are you being serious with that squad or just having a laugh ?? Young is nowhere near ready for international, Farnworth hasn't played for a while and may not play again this year, Same with Percival, Newman is gone for the year. Williams has been poor all season and looked like a headless chicken in most games, Hastings has been <<oops I tried to get around the swear filter and failed>> poor most of the year, Clarke has had an awful season a complete shadow of the player he was a few years back, Radly just doesn't have the skill set for a 9

For an hour I agree that was absolutely appalling, the entire team just looked like they were going through the motions trying to avoid injury or having to exert themselves at all. It wasn't until TO went 16-12 ahead that Roby comes on and gives the whole team a real rollocking that they suddenly changed. For that last 20 odd minutes Saints started to play rugby and TO just couldn't live with them. As others have said Lussick was poor, really poor, but he wasn't the only one. I do think Roby's decision to stay on has affected Lussick as he'll have another year as just being a back-up. It wouldn't surprise me if he leaves at the end of the year now

Yep, he confirmed that saints are in advanced talks with a winger to replace Grace and that it definately wasn't Ritson.

Edited for Accuracy