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Everything posted by keighley

  1. I never referenced attendances although I am sure Fev's were bigger than Bradford's. I was referencing the relative success of the one and complete and utter failure of the other as to which was the big team. The realities of the time were that Featherstone were the bigger club. If you want to a longer time frame for Bradford being a big club, then I would say that from their admission to the league as Bradford Northern until almost the outbreak of WW11 they were small fry. Post war they were massive until their nadir of 1962/63. Following their resurrection they were middling right up until SL when they were huge again and right now they are once again average to below average. This fixation with them being a big club depends very much on which single period is focussed upon. Overall I wouldn't give them an A+ as a big club in the same way that you could do for Leeds, Wigan and a couple of others.
  2. I said these things were anecdotal. I was at Headingley for the PNG game an the Scotland game. There was a true blue Scotsman behind me and a Keighley fan and his son in front of me as well as myself. My conclusion was that Leeds are in decline and Keighley should be in SL. The RLWC people would know the addresses of all ticket buyers but I would bet that there were a very decent number of Leythers in attendance. Going by the amount of Fijian flags at Rochdale and knowing the diaspora of Fijians in the town, I would guess that there were more than he usual numbers of Rochdale residents at Spotland that night. In the absence of information from the ticket data base, I will just wait and see if the crowds at either of these two clubs, and, indeed, Workington and Halifax show any significant increase in he upcoming season. I think you would be happier if only 2,000 had shown up at all the venues and then it would have been probable proof that no locals attended.
  3. They weren't a member of the league structure and, in any event, the merger crowd would have had a fit with two teams in St Helens even though it had happened before.
  4. 1959 and 1960 looks like consecutive to me. 1960 is two years out from Bradford's ceasing to exist. The rot was already in place and Bradford were very poor when Fev were a decent club. Potential is one thing. Reality is another. At that time period, one team going to 3 cup semi finals in 4 years and the other dropping out of the league and being wound up would suggest that Fev were the bigger club in that epoch.
  5. If Thatto Heath apply and are admitted into the RFL's pro levels, then, should they win promotion, they should be promoted. Keighley applied as did Featherstone and both joined the pro leagues.
  6. I never suggested a full house at Leigh every week. I suggested a possible filip to Leigh's attendances, certainly not a full house.
  7. And the cost of a coach for most teams for a visit to Leigh compared to air fare to Perpignan and a hotel for 30 people for at a day or two is much different. Which do you think is he cheaper for those paying the bills.?
  8. Do you remember Manchester City and Aston Villa in Division three and Manchester United and Liverpool in Division two. I do. Somebody helped them out.
  9. When Bradford were slipping headlong to extinction in 1962/3, Featherstone were regularly appearing before 20,000 in consecutive RL CUP semi finals at Odsal. Big club is a relative term that is only true in certain decades when discussing Bradford. They have proven that they have considerable potential for disaster as well as success. Right now they are precariously balanced and could tip either way.
  10. How many multi million pound clubs does RL have. certainly not Bradford, Wakefield, Castleford or London. Thatto Heath ? I have no idea what you are talking about. have they ever been a member of the professional rankjs of the RFL ?
  11. Lies, damn lies and statistics. I can't be bothered but I know if I look it up, I can come up with 8,000 for Workington in their hayday, Halifax in the 6,000 range and Leigh near to that in the Div 1 winning season. I can even find Oldham at 10,000 and Hunslet at 4,000. I can quote an attendance of above 10,000 for a Div 2 fixture an d one of 3,500 for a division three fixture and 4,500 for a Highfield game. I can also find Bradford at less than 1,000, Leeds at 6,000, Huddersfield at less than 1,000, London at 500, Hull KR at 1500 and Swinton at 6,000. AS I said, lies , damn lies and statistics.
  12. No, I am not making that mistake. There is, however, a post on the Leigh forum on RL fans where someone took 6 non RL supporters to the WC game at Leigh and now two of them are going to buy Leigh season tickets. I was at both Cumbria and Bristol and there were all sorts of people there at both games from around the UK and Australia and even France. There were also a lot of Cumbrians seated around me at Workington and many Rochdale based Fijians at Spotland. At Wrexham, I was seated by a family of Crusaders supporters at both games and another person I spoke to said he was a Welsh RU supporter and this was his first RL game and he found it very exciting and he would check out future Crusader games. I realise this is all anecdotal but, of these anecdotes are replicated in any numbers, I think the spill off effects from the World Cup games could be considerable. I think the claim that all these extra supporters were SL fans is off the mark. Some were and many weren't. The poor attendances at Hull KR and Salford would seem to indicate that SL supporters weren't always so numerous. If 50% of the crowds at these venues were from the host cities, then that's a decent total to work on and may result in increased attendances for these clubs. If this results and p and r is revived I think attendances at some Championship venue could receive a boost. Of course some SL venues coukd get he same boost from the WC. I certainly hope both leagues benefit.
  13. You are scrambling now. Are you of the opinion that Keighley, a lower CC team affect Bradford's attendances and take players that would be better off at Odsal. I wish it were so. Even at the height of Cougarmania the club was no threat to Bradford except in Caisley's mind. Plus Keighley and Bradford are not neighbours in the same way as the Hulls and the Cheshire duo are. There has been a whole thread on that with chapter and verse as to why not. But the question was " What is the difference between the HULL/Hull KR scenario and the Widnes/ Warrington scenario and how can you champion one solution for the one and the opposite solution for the other"? You either live by the merger argument or you don't. you want it both ways and when questioned introduce a third scenario which is not relevant. So irrelevant, in fact, that even the Lord God Lindsay, the high priest of mergers, didn't suggest it.
  14. So are you saying that Premier league soccer is not a successful, modern sport ? Are you saying that top tier RU is not a modern sport despite in the past having neither leagues or p and r but now they think that's the way to go.? So despite such teams as Bradford City, Barnsley, Blackpool, QPR, Wigan, Charlton, Portsmouth and Hull City being allowed elevation to the premier League via p and r without the Premier League World ending, that we can't do that in RL because it's laughable. I'll tell what's laughable, the thought that if Everton went bankrupt twice in three years with plunging crowds and playing in their old outdated stadium, that they wouldn't have been demoted by the governing body.
  15. I don't think I did duck it. I said that Sheffield were your dream of a big city team but you poo pooed that referencing Sheff wed and Sheff U. I said that if Sheffield met the standards that I would have in place for grand final winners, especially as regards finance, I would have them in SL. You then went on a tangent about the standards demanding chapter and verse and I countered that an independent body without votes for SL clubs should decide that but adequate finances would be a big part of it. You then went on another tangent about there being no rich men willing to support CC clubs even though there are at least two now and have been two others in the past. I have no beef with Widnes. I think if they are in SL and don't finish in a relegation spot, more power to them. I don;'t think they should merge with Warrington like you Lyndsay disciples do. I don't think Sheffield should merge with Huddersfield either as one of the clubs ceases to exist but that's another story.
  16. And the difference between that scenario and the Widnes/ Warrington scenario is what ?
  17. They didn't win anything. they were awarded a licence by a committee. The results of those choices have been multiple bankruptcies. We could have achieved the same results by sticking with p and r. Oh, hang on, we did better than that. Huddersfield, Hull KR and Castleford were all promoted and are all still alive and kicking in SL.
  18. The fans were attracted to the world Cup for the spectacle of international RL both elite and not so elite. The massive attendances were for Australia, New Zealand and England games, the elite and the pretty damn good attendances were for the not so elite of Scotland, France, Cook Islands, Ireland,Wales, USA, Tonga and Samoa. These attendances were at such places as Workington, twice, Leigh, Rochdale, Halifax and Bristol. That would seem to indicate go me that maybe there is a market for elite teams at any of these locations. Now it is up to the RL to re introduce p and r and we will see if any of those missing and new supporters would flock to these areas if the Championship teams there can develop and get promoted to the top tier.,
  19. IF SL want to break away with your picks and ring fence themselves, then so be it. If the game is to remain as one entity then SL is part of a whole and the SL needs to be available to all the members of the league. The makeup needs not to be determined on what's best for SL but on what teams have won the right to be a SL member. IF money talks, then eventually the SL will be the league you want with the teams you want and no one will be able to argue against it but the failing team in any given season needs to be replaced by the best of the rest. Again, if money talks, this situation will eventually result in the best bet resurfacing in SL. Unfortunately for the ring fencers this might not always be one of their chosen. Some other upstart might make a better job of it.
  20. Based on your concept of what constitutes an elite league, namely mergers, downsizing and ring fencing. That's not my vision.
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