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The Great Dane

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Everything posted by The Great Dane

  1. 19k is not particularly impressive for the Storm. Their average attendance around the time- 2017- 20,211 2018- 18,461 2019- 17,297 2017 and 18s numbers are slightly skewed by playing home games at Suncorp (hence why I included 2019), but in all three of those seasons they had regular season home games at AAMI with a higher attendance than the WCC, and multiple others with an attendance that was near to it. So yeah, 19k in Melbourne is not really a great turnout for what is meant to be a big a event. Especially not when it's in the preseason before the AFL's season has kicked off... The RFL and SL clubs are definitely in the position with the most power to change the NRL's attitude towards the WCC, and pretending otherwise is kind of silly frankly. In fact it'd be pretty simple if they could pull it off; if they simply took the initiative and held a handful of successful, profitable, WCC's down here, the NRL/club's attitude towards the WCC would quickly shift. Consider it a proof of concept. Assuming that they do in fact have faith in the product, there's absolutely nothing stopping the RFL/SL clubs from taking that strategy with the WCC. Their talk in the media has had the right attitude, but actions speak louder than words... The last time I paid any real attention to the WCC was 2017. The Sharks preparation for the WCC in the weeks leading up to it was to take tours of London, Paris, Barcelona, and probably other places I'm forgetting, to go on regular day trips/shopping sprees, and to go out most nights. I'm sure I don't have to tell you, but that is not how an NRL team prepares for a game they are taking seriously! That sort of attitude towards the WCC is not unique to the Sharks either, if anything it's the norm and attitudes like East's (under Trent Robinson), whom take it very seriously, are the outlier.
  2. If you try to sell it as the pinnacle of the club game, or as more important than the NRL GF, you are only going to get a lot of people down here's noses out of joint. They would rightly point out that winning the Telstra Premiership is a much tougher achievement, and that if you really had a competition to decide the best club team in the world that NRL teams would dominant and SL teams would rarely make the GF let alone win the competition. In other words, what I'm trying to say is that the 'it's the pinnacle of the club game' stuff is bad rhetoric if you want to engender NRL involvement. Playing the WCC at the end of the season would be better than during the preseason, but I'm not sure if it'll be feasible most seasons. The players are allowed x-amount of time off after the GF and 8 weeks time off total during the offseason, and with internationals to be played as well, fitting the WCC in a couple of weeks after the GF would be a very tight squeeze.
  3. At the very least you'd need these three changes- 1. It needs to be played in Australia/NZ at least every second year. If it was me I'd have a few years in a row of it being played in Aus/NZ just to get it back into public conscience down here, then alternate after that. 2. It needs to be planned in advanced and heavily promoted throughout the season, not haphazardly thrown together by the clubs after the GFs. If it's successful you'd eventually sell hosting rights to the highest bidder in each nation. 3. It must be broadcast on FTA and replayed in primetime when it's played in England, at least in Australia. Trying to move it out of the pointy end of the preseason would help a lot as well, but IDK if there's a better option that is realistically feasible. Sure, but at this point why they aren't keen on it is more important than the actual fact that they aren't keen on it. If you don't understand the why then it's impossible to do anything to change it. Also the SL clubs and RFL have to take a lot of responsibility for at least the clubs not being keen as well. They highly insisted that it be played almost exclusively in England in the early days, have also totally failed to sell the concept to the NRL clubs through low returns (by NRL standards) and making it genuinely inconvenient for them in a lot of cases (most cases frankly), and have done little to nothing to promote it in Australia/NZ despite it being both within their power and interests to do so. Maybe in England, but not really in Australia. It was seen as a novelty exhibition game, that didn't even draw a particularly good crowd or ratings, and was quickly forgotten after the fact. Roosters vs Wigan at the SFS was more successful, but again the rating weren't spectacular from memory and it was treated as a glorified exhibition game. But that was probably inevitable because it's going to take more than the odd one off game to get people to buy into it en masse again down here. It needs a sustained presence, not to be a thing that's done seemly at random roughly once a decade only to disappear off the radar again afterwards. And responses like that are why change will never happen. You cannot expect people to just capitulate to your ideals when there's little to nothing in it for them, and as it stands in both the International scene and the WCC the NRL and/or clubs either don't gain enough to make it worth their while or make loses because of it, and as long as that is the case they're never going to willing play ball. So the question has to become how do you make it worth their while, and you don't do that by trying to shame them into it, that's just a waste of everybody's time that makes you look like a spoilt children throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way. It's also a great way to illicit a negative reaction from Australian culture, especially when coming from Poms...
  4. Because it's almost always been played in England the WCC has been totally devalued as a product in Australia. It's ratings and broadcast value aren't very good, it barely makes the news, and broadly speaking nobody outside of the team playing's fans care about it, and even a lot of them only see it as a novelty exhibition match. So of course the clubs aren't enthusiastic about it because it's a non-event in Australia that make's them barely any money and distracts from their preparation for the NRL season, which does make them lots of money. In other words it's basically just a big risk to them ATM. If it was handled properly it could be a big product in Australia again, and thus the NRL clubs would become enthusiastic about it again, but at this stage it would require the RFL and English clubs to take the initiative to make those changes and that is almost certainly never going to happen. Similarly to the NRL and NRL clubs, The RFL and SL clubs are too self-interested and myopic to sacrifice the big gate and ratings that the WCC brings in the short term for the chance to build it into a much bigger product in the long term.
  5. I'd like to see Perth and Adelaide, but that isn't as interesting as what is most likely to happen. What's most likely to happen depends on which club wins the 17th license and whom is in charge of the ARLC and NRL at the time- If Redcliffe or Ipswich win 17 then Bris3 or NZ2 are most likely to win 18. If the Firehawks win 17 then NZ2 or Perth are most likely to win 18. However if PVL is replaced as chairman of the ARLC by the time the decision for the 18th license is made then all bets are off.
  6. Without a doubt. If you put every Australian RL jersey design in front of a cross section of average people from across the country more would be able to identify your average SOO, Rabbitohs, etc, jersey than the Roosters jersey. If you targeted specific age groups you'd get significantly different results as well; I'd be willing to bet that the Red Vee would be way more recognisable on average to over 50s, the Raiders armbands, Panthers liquorice allsorts, and early Broncos jerseys would be more recognisable to people in their 30-40s, while Storm jerseys would be significantly more recognisable to under 20s. It'd honestly be a fascinating study to do, same goes for AFL branding.
  7. I guess it depends on how you are defining 'iconic', but it's definitely not the most recognisable RL jersey in Australia. The Roosters jersey would definitely be in the top 10, but both the SOO jerseys, Souths cardinal and myrtle, the red vee, and arguably a handful of others would be more recognised on average. BTW, the Roosters first started wearing their current design in the early 50s. So it's remained more or less unchanged for almost 70 years.
  8. I never claimed their colours were inspired by the French… I said the opposite in fact. As the link says, and is well known history in Australian RL circles, the fact that their colours happened to be the same as France’s, and the French national team was successful at the time, inspired them to embrace other French design elements, such as their name, logo, and jersey design.
  9. Anybody can download the rulebooks for all age groups and forms of RL here for free. He might have been talking about the material that is part of their courses to become accredited coaches, refs, trainers, etc, they don't just give those out to anybody. But those are part of educational training courses so it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't want to hand it out to just anybody for free, and they'd be kind of useless anyway unless you are taking part in said courses.
  10. It really shouldn't, but it's hard to tell. Any objective person should be able to see that a bad merger is the only realistic outcome of them merging unless the Jets basically give everything to the Firehawks, and that them not merging is probably a better outcome for both than a bad merger. The problem is that most people aren't objective... Frankly, both of the Jets and FHs are in weak positions PR wise compared to the Dolphins, because for some reason the majority of the media think that the Dolphins can do no wrong, and give them nothing but uncritical positive media coverage. The Dolphins released a report last night that they had commissioned, that literally said they were the best option for expansion because they'd be the club with the smallest fanbase playing out of the smallest venues, and as such would have the least impact on the other NRL clubs, and the Courier Mail somehow spun it so that that is a great thing. In other words, they literally argued they'd be the best option because they'd be the smallest club, and as far as I can tell most people have bought it... So yeah the PR war seems to be a losing one for the FHs and Jets, as it seems that the Dolphins have incriminating pictures of some people in power or something.
  11. BTW, the merger talks between the Firehawks and Jets have already stalled. They went pretty much how I expected them to; the Firehawks offered the Jets a seat on the board and to feed the Ipswich catchment into the Firehawks, the Jets counted with a 50/50 split in ownership and control of the club as well as the team being named the Jets, and the Firehawks (rightfully) laughed in their faces. It was inevitable really. The Firehawks held all the leverage and the Jets were always going to demand more representation than what they'd be bringing to the merger justified.
  12. The funny thing about the whole 'the game lacks assets' thing is that V'landys, and the clubs, know damn well that the reason that the game hasn't built any assets over the last decade is because it's wasted the vast majority of it's money on club grants and bailing out broke clubs. In other words it's their fault that the game hasn't built any assets or invested in the future, they know it , and them making a stink about it was just them trying to shift the blame for the game's struggles onto somebody else. Anyway, I could rant about that subject forever, but it's for another time. Which is irrational as well. Think about it for a second; the argument goes that RL needs a pro-teams directly representing basically every region of Brisbane to stop the AFL 'taking over', but the AFL doesn't have pro-teams directly representing any of those regions yet has still been able to push growth and grab ever increasing amounts of market share in just about every market north of the Victorian border. They've been able to do that because their investment into grassroots and community football has kept pace with their expenditure, and they've increased investment into the grassroots in their 'expansion markets' in particular, while the NRL has neglected their grassroots and community footy for decades now. In other words if you want to take the fight to the AFL then that fight starts in the grassroots and ends in the grassroots, and though they'd undoubtedly help, you don't need a pro-club in every suburb to fight that battle.
  13. You've hit on the major problem with both the Redcliffe and Ipswich bids. Both would work as a Redcliffe or Ipswich team, but neither would work very well as a Brisbane team, when what the NRL's really needs is another team that can represent Brisbane, not teams scattered across suburbs in Brisbane. BTW, the Ipswich council doesn't have the resources to build the Jets an NRL standard stadium, that'd require state and federal funding that is unlikely to be forthcoming any time soon. In other words it's a pipedream. Same goes with any talk of upgrading Dolphins Stadium to NRL standard in the next couple of decades. What you are missing is that the Dolphins have $100mil in assets and first-movers advantage, while the Firehawks only have $80mil in assets and $35mil in cash reserves, and a lot of people seem to be getting hung up on that fact. Here's the thing though, even with "only" $80mil in assets and $35mil in cash, the Firehawks would still be the richest club in the NRL from day one of their joining. In other words they have more than enough money to fund launching a successful NRL team, and at that point the fact that the Dolphins have more assets is pretty meaningless.
  14. Easts have always said they were open to working with other clubs on a joint bid, and that they'd at least hear them out. It's also pretty obvious from what has been doing the rounds that they aren't the ones pushing for the merger. I also don't see what the Dolphins bid has over the others, aside from a strong PR department that seems to have convinced every journo on the planet that they are gods gift to man. Their bid is literally the living embodiment of everything that has held the sport back in this country.
  15. I'm sorry, didn't I cherry pick the examples to your liking?! I also love how you've chosen to ignore the 75% drop in attendance over 4 years that the Auckland Nines suffered as well. Or is that example not up to your high standards either? I also know for a fact that the World Sevens suffered a similar fate, I just can't find hard numbers for it because it was so long ago. So yeah why don't we talk about them as well? The 03 and 04 editions in particular were worse than a joke. You can pretend it doesn't exist all you like, but pretty much all the evidence shows that your idea would be wildly popular for about a week, but would be totally irrelevant by the end of the competition. So Toohey's won't enforce their deal with the NSWRL? The NSWRL have just as many commercial contractual obligations as the NRL do... Besides, you're living in fantasyland again if you think that the NSWRL has the means to organise such a competition played between the NRL clubs and other nations independent of the NRL.
  16. Functionally it doesn't really make the Firehawks stronger. Nothing is gained from a merger that couldn't be achieved without it, except that it throws all their financial resources behind one bid instead of three. But it'll also make the club an organisational mess unless it's a merger in name only, and one of the members effectively takes over the others. To put it in other terms, they're really running the risk that the club will be all the worst dysfunction of the Sydney mergers on roids, and the last thing the NRL needs is Brisbane's answer to the Wests Tigers, or worse, the Northern Eagles. But unfortunately a lot of people seem to have it in their heads that the bid that has the largest financial resources is the bid that should win the license, which is stupid on the face of it as a lot more goes into a successful team than just it's financial backing, but also seems to have pushed the Firehawks to at least hear the Jets/Bombers/Western Corridor bid out, because they've only got $80mil in assets to the Dolphins $100mil.
  17. The problem is much worse than Australian RL fans not understanding international RL. If the problem was that simple it'd be an easy fix. No the problem is that they are totally apathetic towards it's existence, and that's not a problem that the NRL, or anybody else in Australia, can simply go out and change. The NRL couldn't even do the craft brewers thing. It'd almost certainly put them in breach of their contracts with their alcohol partners.
  18. I didn't say that 90% of RL fans don't know the Bears and Seagulls exist (though it'd surprise you how few people outside of Queensland could name any of the QRL clubs), I said they didn't know the product exists, i.e. they'd couldn't tell you where or when their games are on or how to consume them. You're right though, I am underselling it, it'd be more like 95+% of average fans that haven't got a clue about anything outside of the NRL and SOO... The 2020 NRL Nines had a total of 24.8k people attend over both days. I can't find the numbers now, but I remember that it's ratings were noted for how ###### they were. The Auckland Nines held between 2014-17 suffered really badly from diminishing returns with attendance dropping from 89k in 2014 to just 22k in 2017, and again I remember that their ratings suffered really badly by the end as well. All of those events were played in the offseason, all were played in daylight savings hours, all of them had players of the future, bands, a festival atmosphere, etc, etc, and yet they still slowly, but steadily, shrunk into irrelevance. Yet you want to take that concept, strip all the star players out of it, and play it weekly over 10 weeks!? Are you mad? The 5k crowds you are expecting probably wouldn't even cover the salaries of the 240 participating players and all the coaching and support staff, let alone all the other costs associated with hosting such events. So it's not even realistic on that level.
  19. Most of the time affiliate clubs are marriages of necessity or convenience, and not because the clubs or their supporters have any particular love for each other. Club affiliations also change all the time as better or more convenient deals become available, which makes developing strong relationships between the two clubs fanbases difficult. In other words, the clubs above would have no qualms taking a better deal with the new club (or any of the other NRL clubs) when their deal with the Broncos expires, and fans of second tier clubs are no more likely to support their club's NRL affiliate than they are any other NRL club.
  20. You still get some older blokes holding grudges from the SL war, but it's increasingly rare and most of those people wouldn't be interested in supporting a new club anyway. It's more of a thing in Sydney as well.
  21. Oversimplifying a bit, but it's because the Broncos are a very unlikeable team with a history of being antagonistic to a lot of RL institutions, particularly in Brisbane. A lot of people don't like their corporate nature and their direct connections with News Corp and the Murdoch family either. You also get a lot of expats in Brisbane whom are interested in regularly attending NRL games and supporting a local team as their 'second team', but simply can't bring themselves to support the Broncos or regularly attend their games and aren't willing to travel down to the GC to watch the Titans. There're also tons of people whom only follow SOO, whom, at least theoretically, could be converted into NRL fans with a bit of persuasion, but they're probably the most amorphous and disparate group. So yeah, there're a lot of people in Brisbane whom could become fans of the new club, tens of thousands of them in fact, the problem is creating a team that can appeal to enough of them to make it worthwhile, because if the NRL do it wrong we could end up with another club with no fans squatting on a license, and that's the last thing the NRL needs more of.
  22. My mistake, but it doesn't change the fact that only 50k of those people are from Redcliffe, or refute any of my other points.
  23. Yeah that's just wishful thinking... Simply not how in-group out-group psychology works. BTW, linking the NRL team heavily with the Dolphin's legacy in Redcliffe isn't a good way to create an identity that appeals to potential fans outside of Redcliffe. Sure talent will be an issue, but the current disparity in the NRL isn't simply because of a lack of talent because even when the top teams play each other there're regularly blow outs. It's pretty obvious that the new rules are a big part of the issue, but I also think that covid forcing the lower tiers to be abandoned two years in a row leaving the teams reserves without a place to keep match fit is a big part of the issue as well.
  24. I don't see what's in a merger with the Jets/Bombers for the Firehawks. They don't need the Bombers backers support and the strings that would come attached with that, and if they want Ipswich as a feeder club then they could just sign them up as an affiliate instead of merging with them. Frankly it just seems like a last ditch effort by the Jets to try and get on a winning horse, and maybe a bit of a publicity stunt for Easts, because the only way Easts will ever agree to a merger is if the Jets are a tiny minority partner whom have no real influence on the club. A merger between Easts and Wynnum Manly, or maybe even Souths Logan, for NRL purposes would make much more sense.
  25. Morton Bay has a population of about 500k, not 1-2mil, and Redcliffe, the Dolphins actual market, only has about 50k of that. We also don't actually know how much money they have in the bank as they don't release their annual reports publicly. They do however have about $100mil in assets, but being asset rich doesn't mean that you are cash rich. A well run club is also very subjective. In my opinion it's easy to be 'a well run club' when you were beneficiaries of the sports rorts and have a huge pokie den, but that doesn't show if you are actually capable of running a successful footy business.
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