Ray Cashmere
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Posts posted by Ray Cashmere
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I can't speak for all Salford fans but, for me, whether Gerrard 'buys' SRD pales in significance to whether he buys the AJ Bell.
Give me long-term security, a 'home' rather than a letting and the opportunity to retain non-ticket revenues over increased player investment any day of the week.
The exact structure (assigning us the freehold, placing it in a trust, peppercorn rent or other) is neither here nor there. Certainty and revenue-generating ability is what we (and all Super League clubs) need right now.
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2 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:
It is a bit of a crappy location for now. The new link Rd has helped as it directly links the M6 / M60 and Parkway meaning its easy to drive to, but public transport wise its still very poor. Peel holdings want the Metrolink extending beyond the Trafford Centre but realistically this wont happen until Peel fully develop the rest of the land along the ship canal. So it could be another 10-15 years before the Metrolink directly serves the stadium.
As for the walk - no way can you walk from the stadium to the Trafford Centre Metrolink stop & bus stops in 15mins, not unless you want to walk across all the derelict land directly to the lift bridge (not something i'd want to do at night)
This is exactly right and why owning the ground is the single-most important thing for the club long-term. No level of short-term player investment could match it.
Once the area surrounding the ground fulfils its potential the club could finally have a new community and new audience to grow from rather than relying solely on the traditional RL areas of Salford which aren't well connected to the AJ Bell. Given the wider growth of the Manchester & Salford economies that is a very promising thing.
However, that is presently nothing more than a medium/long-term vision that hinges upon the recent news coming to fruition.
The current directors are the best thing to have happened to this club in a very long time. I hope for their sake as much as anyone else's that they can deliver this and remain in post to reap the rewards of what they've achieved in the post-Koukash years.
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59 minutes ago, To Be Confirmed said:
How exacty is it a crappy location? its pretty much straight off the motorway, is a 15min walk from one of the largest shopping centres in the north of England
Crappy might be an exaggeration but there has always been the feeling that the ground was built without the transport infrastructure and community around it.
I'll remain cautious until anything material changes but owning the AJ Bell as a community stadium, retaining all matchday/sponsorship/F&B revenues and personalising the ground to make it a home rather than a tenancy is by far the best option.
Personally, I feel this statement is more about putting public pressure on Salford Council. Dismissing an opportunity to sell to a Salford businessman with plans to home 2 Salford clubs (SRD & Swinton) within a community stadium in favour of the Cheshire jetset would be an optics disaster so I'm glad the club are pulling the necessary levers to try and make this happen.
If the surrounding brownfield land can actually be developed and begin to feel more like a community of Salford than an out-of-town retail park then there will be real cause for excitement.
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Was largely impressed by Young, especially in yardage. Fix up on the high balls and improve his defensive reads/support play and he really could be anything.
I do think he's in contention for the world cup but the improvements needed above currently leave him behind Tom Davies for me.
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2 minutes ago, DG70 said:
Salford have to go into the market for a replacement for King, threadbare in the forwards.
I would agree.
Ormondroyd has been excellent in fairness and I do rate Luckley & Wells plus Dupree coming in is a boost. However, Akauola just isn't good enough and Burke has been poor this season. Add in Gerrard who has been solid but nothing more and we'll need a lot of luck to get through the season with that group of middles.
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47 minutes ago, Just Browny said:
Croft, Lafai, Sneyd, Ackers, Burgess all outstanding there. Watkins looked sharpest I've seen for years too.
Tonight was actually the quietest he's been since his return but he has been instrumental in our change of fortunes recently.
Thought we were a mixed bag tonight however, when the attack click (which it is doing increasingly), we're a great side to watch.
If it wasn't for the news about King Vuniyayawa I think we'd have a real chance at the play-offs.
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Just now, Jill Halfpenny fan said:
Did Dupree play, if so how did he go?
Had 2 stints, approx 30 mins in total. Held his own and nearly scored a try (double movement).
Impressive performance considering he was down to play in the reserves yesterday and got thrown in last minute after only a few days full-time training. Look forward to seeing what he can deliver towards the back-end of the season.
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Strong performance from Salford despite only having 1 Prop on the bench (making his first Super League appearance no less).
I'd be seriously concerned as a Leeds fan. Our defence has tightened up last 3 games but we looked extremely comfortable throughout and should have scored more.
Croft on drying pitches is a joy to watch and Watkins is putting himself back into England contention (did not think I would be typing this last season).
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It's frustrating when people cannot separate the Koukash era (and its legacy) from the post-Koukash era. I appreciate it might not be obvious from the outside, but this caricature of Salford being content to take the TV money and focusing on self-preservation does not align with reality.
The club is working incredibly hard to regain the academy status that Koukash torpedoed and is thinking innovatively by investing much of its resources in Welsh rugby league through the partnership with WRL, Coleg y Cymoedd & UCLAN. This is already paying dividends with- just last Friday- 4 young welshmen being signed to the reserves. The club has the first Super League partnership in Africa with Ghana RL and has already had coaches over from Ghana in order to aid their development and improve the RL infrastructure in the country. There is a long-term aim to give a pathway for young Ghanaians into professional rugby league. I'd argue few Super League clubs are more engaged in the expansion of the game than SRD right now.
The club's womens' team was only established this year yet has already beaten Super League opposition; PDRL sessions have also been launched. The Building The Future game against Leeds last Friday saw schoolkids and grassroots from Stockport to Bolton in attendance. The club has completely rebranded since the Koukash era. This isn't a club just relying on old men from Weaste and Eccles.
51 minutes ago, Jughead said:Whoever has been behind their recruitment and retention has been superb the last few years.
Ian Blease- just one of a number of shrewd operators at the club who have enabled SRD to punch above its weight and begin to build long-term again after Koukash decimated the club's infrastructure for short-term gain. The value of SRD's sponsorship deal with Selco BW means that, even if SRD were relegated and penalty clauses applied, the club would earn more in the Championship than several SL clubs earn from their main shirt sponsor. The commercial department is growing in size, not standing still or shrinking.
This is why the fanbase are largely positive about Moor Lane. The opportunity to control our own destiny and retain sponsorship, f&b and other matchday-associated revenues is a huge positive and what all Super League clubs should be aspiring to.
SRD have inherent disadvantages due to poor attendances and the damage Koukash inflicted on the club. The fact that we've been so competitive over the last 5 years highlights the incompetence & complacency of bigger, better resourced and more illustrious competitors. It is not something SRD should apologise for.
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20 hours ago, dboy said:
I get the sentiment of each club needing to strive for ever better standards for themselves and the wider game, and that supporters would endorse that...but you've lost me with the notion that it somehow absolves Salford from running their business in an ethical and fair manner.
We should ignore Salford spending their rent money on players "for the good of the game"??
Tell Fev fans that!
*NOTE - Sisyphus was punished for wrongdoing - what is Salford's punishment for wronging their debts?
What does this even mean?
Our 'rent money' is whatever money is mutually agreed between the parties.
The original rent agreement was agreed between previous parties and based on incompetent (I'd say negligent) projections. Rent agreements, like any other contract, can be re-negotiated. This applies to SRD as much as any other company in this country.
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8 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:
In 25 years time, they'll bump up the rent to match the expansion.
Without wishing to go into detail, it is a standard part of a commercial property contract for improvements/alterations to a premises to be disregarded in any rent review.
Besides, the landlord will be Salford City Council, just as it is now for Salford City FC. It would not be a comparable landlord/tenant relationship to Hull, Wigan or Salford @ AJ Bell.
15 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:They would not effectively own the ground
15 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:just as someone renting a house doesn’t pay to build an extension.
We would 'effectively' own the ground, it wouldn't be like someone renting a house.
Commercial property is not residential property. Given your Super League score predictions have proven more accurate than your understanding of commercial property law I'd suggest not taking this further.
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On 23/02/2022 at 10:53, theswanmcr said:
Good point on corporates - we always played Friday nights at Willows for this. Of course the AJ Bell is good for these facilities and Ray C may have more idea on hospitality revenues
AFAIK Salford receive nothing from food and beverage/hospitality on top of the price of the match ticket as it is the stadium management company who control hospitality
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On 23/02/2022 at 07:33, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:
So no Salford will not own Moor Lane they will be renting. Salford are not going to take out a 15 year lease on Moor Lane and develop the ground. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
Well this is what I said on the Moor Lane thread having just left the Fans' Forum led by our Managing Director Paul King:
"Due diligence suggests v feasible/affordable. Discussions ongoing with architects/construction sector about increasing capacity to between 6.5k and 8k (can build up, not out) subject to planning permission (PP not expected to be major obstacle, more dependent on what we are quoted for the work)."
Is he deluded?
On 23/02/2022 at 08:58, Tommygilf said:Fair enough.
I think you are misreading his point though. He is saying that Salford are unlikely to spend significant sums to renovate the ground if they only have a 15 Year Lease.
I have no idea where any confirmation of a 15 year lease has come from, it certainly wasn't me.
Again, from the Moor Lane thread shortly after the Fans' Forum:
"Effectively yes (Salford would own the ground) as it would be a long term leasehold (as Salford City have now) between 21 and 100 years with full control over the stadium's commerciality"
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4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:
I don't disagree , what would be your guess Ray ?
What sort of numbers did you take to the GF and Wembley ?
My guess wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on and I go every week!
Well we took 0 to Wembley thanks to COVID but the Grand Final had anywhere between 12,000 and 20,000 ‘Salfordians’ (ie supporting Salford due to more than disliking/loathing St Helens) as a rough estimate.
Now I’d love to know the data on all those people in order to encourage them to come every week but I can guarantee you they don’t see the AJ Bell as an attractive stadium experience and don’t live on the largely derelict land around Barton with the sub-standard transport infrastructure.
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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:
I think he's suggesting that approx 10,000 different people will attend the AJ as a home fan over a season , not an unreasonable estimate IMO
It might or might not be an unreasonable estimate but what it is is a figure plucked out of thin air
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31 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:
I'm not sure where this has happened. You seem to make a big deal about asking Salford fans what they think, but you haven't asked them either. You might know a good representation of the sort of fan who is willing to attend a forum, but this isn't the same as the likely 10,000 or so people who will attend as a Salford supporter across a season.
In my opinion, you are far too defensive with any comment that is made around Salford, regardless of the intention or the substance. I have read the Moor Lane thread in its entirety, and whilst I accept that Salford may have no real alternative, I still think it will mean the end of them as a SL club. As a fan of a Championship club, this isn't necessarily the end of the world. One of the main reasons, and the main thing I have been pushing against in this thread is the idea that you can transfer 4,000 in a 12,000 stadium into 4,000 in a 5,000 stadium. In that thread you even go as far as saying 5,000 sellouts will look better than 4,000 in the AJ.
Examples of clubs downsizing in this way are actually few and far between, but I have demonstrated two concrete examples in RL where the exact same reasoning was used to justify moving an event to a smaller stadium. In both examples, they not only saw a significantly reduced crowd but didn't even sellout the smaller venue.
If Salford moved to Moor Lane, got 5,000 every week and then expanded it to 8,000 soon after then they would certainly have an argument considering other SL clubs' facilities. However, I suspect it would really mean a half-full Moor Lane that in turn would be even less appealing than the AJ is currently.
‘Likely’?! Please submit your business plan to Paul King as I’m sure he’d love to know how to get 10,000 fans ‘likely’ attending Salford games.
If you want a good-faith discussion on the viability of our various stadium options then please direct this to the Moor Lane thread so as not to pollute the attendances thread further.
However, your obsession with capacity and complete ignorance of geography does not suggest you understand the crux of the discussion amongst Salford fans re AJ Bell/Moor Lane.
I’ll leave it at that
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3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:
Will Salford own Moor Lane?
As stated in the Moor Lane thread, if Salford proceed with Moor Lane it will be a minimum 15 year lease with full control over naming rights and sponsorship and full control of all matchday revenues (unless anything has materially changed from the last fans’ forum).
Commercially, that is as good as owning the freehold (if you want to argue that it isn’t I refer you to my posts on the Moor Lane thread).
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1 minute ago, Dave T said:
I understand your frustration Ray, but you seem to be confusing people giving their view with telling Salford fans what they think. That isn't what people are doing at all.
Not in this instance tbf, no. But it has been a theme of the last few pages.
It's just the statements of personal opinion as fact highlighted above and elsewhere by people unwilling to do the most basic of research that becomes irksome.
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22 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:
How will Salford pay for the expansion of Moor Lane? They won’t even own the ground will they? If Salford can afford to pay for Moor Lane to be expanded I’m sure they could afford to pay the rent at the AJ Bell Stadium
Again. Have you bothered to read any of the now extensive detail on the Moor Lane thread before asking these questions?
You, and any other poster, have every right to think whatever you wish with regards to Salford. I have no interest in changing that. All I do ask is that you stop telling Salford fans and the people of Salford what they do or don't think and what they can or can't do without even pretending to engage in the substance of any of it.
It's a forum at the end of the day so you can do as you like but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it tedious.
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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:
I don't think this holds up to scrutiny, a big stadium often encourages people to attend. This doesn't mean it's always a better scenario. Take the time Wales got 17,000 at the Millenium Stadium in 2000, it looked dreadful on TV but had they held it at a much smaller stadium they almost certainly wouldn't have got near 17,000.
If Salford move to a 5000 stadium, they're done as a SL club. The idea that they'll pack it out is wishful thinking. It will just make them appear even more small time and crowds will drop further. I do have some sympathy for them as their move from Weaste has been a disaster, but they need to be in at least a 10,000 stadium.
We have numerous examples where a better, larger stadium has increased attendances even when it's resulted in a lot of empty seats. Take Hull FC, their stadium was half full at the weekend but I can remember a SL season opener not that long ago when a crowd of 6,000 for an opener was seen as a real boost.
I can't think of a single example where the reverse has happened.
Have you consulted a single Salford fan before reaching this conclusion?
I must say my favourite genre on here is telling fans what they supposedly think about their own clubs.
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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:
4003 announced at Salford
Strong effort given the shocking weather and absence of away fans
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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:
Get to Betfred, they have Salford at 7/1 to finish in the top 6
I don't think we make the top 6 this season (I think this is the strongest Super League in years with the way Leeds have strengthened, KR adding Coote etc) but I might have to take a bit of 7/1.
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Having watched both pre-season games I'm confident we'll be competitive this season.
Avoiding injuries to the middles will be our issue. Wells has impressed me every time he's played but his injury record is a huge worry, King looks very strong (albeit raw) and contrary to other posters on here Burke has been an extremely reliable part of Grand Final and Challenge Cup Final squads. Sam Luckley is improving all the time. Add in Akauola, Ormondroyd, Gerrard and Johnson I don't think depth is an issue.
The sheer amount of work Taylor & Wright get through in the back row will help as well.
On Croft, I'm already resigned to a bigger club coming in for him next season tbh. I'm going to enjoy him whilst I can.
Fri 3rd June : SL : Warrington Wolves v Leeds Rhinos KO 20:00 SKY
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Even when Leeds were terrible this season players like Leeming & Oledzki seemed to put their hand up, have a dig and look like quality players.
Clark, Williams and Widdop have drifted between anonymity and liability during Wire's struggles. I'm a big fan of the first 2 but I don't see any way they can be included in the England squad at the minute.