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Everything posted by JAG

  1. “If there was any advert for not having relegation last season, what Hull KR have done is it...Hull KR wouldn’t be in this division now if relegation had stayed in place – they would be in the Championship and would have had to go through another rebuild, it’s as simple as that." - Steve McNamara. I agree, but I don't believe in a ring-fenced Super League. Therefore a P&R/Licensing hybrid system is needed.
  2. In 2017 Hull KR were promoted from the Championship to Super League and Catalan Dragons only just survived relegation by beating Leigh in the Million Pound Game. 4 years later Hull KR and Catalan Dragons will this week compete for the chance to appear in their very first Grand Final. In 2018 it took the almost compete collapse of Widnes Vikings to aid Hull KR (And Salford & Leeds) in finishing outside the Million Pound Game on points difference. The following year 2019 Hull KR finished above London Broncos (newly promoted) on points difference to avoid automatic relegation. 2020 saw the collapse of Toronto Wolfpack where no relegation was necessary. Imagine if Leigh Centurions and London Broncos had similar fortune to savour that same period of time to mount an assault on Super League rather than merely survive it. This isn't to discredit Hull KR and all they've done this year, which has been a very enjoyable welcome surprise. It's just to point out what can happen when a promoted team have the time to develop in SL. Counter point: "Doesn't this prove that if the Era system was in place Hull KR would likely be relegated after this very successful season?" In ordinary times without missed fixtures I would say possibly yes. But in the last 4 year cycle we've seen the collapse of two Super League teams (Widnes & Toronto) and the brief promotion and relegation of London Broncos & Leigh Centurions. That's 4 teams who's success or failure under this system could never be accurately estimated. I would still maintain that the Era League would help to root out unstable clubs and avoid boom and bust clubs while helping shield the newly promoted.
  3. I'll continue to the bang this drum as I'm convinced that this concept or something very similar is the best way of Rugby League moving forward. There has been some very helpful comments posted here that have streamlined the idea further. Points awarded for final league positions, win percentages, the fact Argentinian football have adopted a similar structure. All very positive. The negative comments have been rather vague in my opinion. Just typical RL fan impatience of wanting everything yesterday without any long-term strategy with emphasis placed on the fact that nothing should ever change in regards to their own club whatsoever. I want this idea to take a hold as much as this '2 leagues of 10' idea that people are discussing that to me doesn't address the fundamental problems facing the sport. Unless I'm understanding it wrong. Super League A & Super League B? - Forgive me but unless all 20 teams can win SL it's just a rehash of what we already have. Maybe someone could explain it to me. (Genuine request)
  4. Leigh couldn't even win the Championship Shield. They went on to lose three more games in that mini league. So ignore three of Leigh's League defeats, ignore the two teams who finished above them who actually beat Toronto Wolfpack, ignore the fact they still would only have finished third, ignore the fact they were losing to teams in the bottom half of the league by the end of the season. Ignore the fact London beat the team Leigh couldn't to actually get promoted along with beating SL teams Salford and Widnes along the way. And most of all ignore the fact the club went into Special Measures when Derek Beaumont withdrew funding...Then yes, I suppose there might be a case for Leigh getting promoted. It's still a weaker case than either Toulouse or Halifax and eventual winners London would have made. The strange thing is the system I'm proposing actually benefits Leigh massively but you've chosen to misunderstand that and taken great exception to minor valid criticism of Leigh which with more investigation which totally vindicates my point which is't even the topic of this thread. 6th in the League is really 1st in the League. Bizarre.
  5. Betfred Championship P W L D PF PA DIFF PTS 1 Toronto Wolfpack 23 20 2 1 866 374 492 41 2 London Broncos 23 16 6 1 907 423 484 33 3 Toulouse Olympique XIII 23 16 6 1 900 438 462 33 4 Halifax RLFC 23 16 6 1 643 416 227 33 5 Featherstone Rovers 23 16 7 0 819 420 399 32 6 Leigh Centurions 23 16 7 0 849 508 341 32 7 Batley Bulldogs 23 8 15 0 523 703 -180 16 8 Sheffield Eagles 23 7 16 0 437 843 -406 14 9 Dewsbury Rams 23 6 16 1 424 746 -322 13 10 Barrow Raiders 23 5 15 3 382 816 -434 13 11 Swinton Lions 23 3 18 2 402 866 -464 8 12 Rochdale Hornets 23 4 19 0 327 926 -599 8 The clubs finishing fifth and below in the regular season play for the Championship Shield. Pos Team Pld W D L PF PA PD Pts Qualification 1 Featherstone Rovers (Q) 30 23 0 7 1040 524 +516 46 Shield final 2 Leigh Centurions (Q) 30 20 0 10 1059 644 +415 40 3 Batley Bulldogs 30 14 0 16 753 805 −52 28 4 Dewsbury Rams 30 10 1 19 650 899 −249 21 5 Barrow Raiders 30 8 3 19 491 1006 −515 19 6 Sheffield Eagles 30 8 0 22 549 1091 −542 16 7 Rochdale Hornets 30 6 0 24 465 1093 −628 12 8 Swinton Lions 30 4 2 24 502 1112 −610 10 Relegation play-off[b] Championship Shield Final 2018 Featherstone Rovers 42-10 Leigh Centurions Post Office Road You're asking me to apologise for my "lack of understanding"?
  6. That might be the case but Leigh would more than likely gain the promotion they thoroughly deserve and get to spend more time in SL than at any other time over the last 20 years combined. Who knows they could establish themselves as a genuine Super League force? It's better than trying to get everything right in one year in SL or getting leap-frogged for promotion by a flash in the pan, short-term success orientated club that'll go bust in no time.
  7. Leigh finished 6th in 2018 behind (Toronto) Toulouse, London, Halifax and Featherstone. All I'm saying is with an Era league you can clearly see which teams have firm foundations to have a good crack at SL. A four year cycle with multiple team promotion gives you that. Leigh would be in the running to be one of those teams without a doubt. I've no doubt Leigh are a great RL club with loyal and passionate fans, that was never in question. If Toronto, Toulouse and Ottawa were in SL and were there becasue of on-field performances with stable long-term club finances/structures then Rugby League would be in a much healthier state than it is right now, we'd all be celebrating.
  8. I'm hoping there won't be another pandemic that destroys a club's ability to play almost entirely. If this system was in place Toronto wouldn't have been eligible for promotion as they didn't survive the 4 year cycle. Thus a place in Super League would have gone to a more stable functioning club and we wouldn't have had the whole poisoned chalice promotion of Leigh debacle. Or we could just simply reduce the number of teams getting relegated/promoted. 4 teams to 3 or 3 teams to 2. For the record I wanted Toronto to succeed and would have allowed them back into SL as I believe without the pandemic happening they would have been a huge asset for SL.
  9. Seeing as there wasn't a Championship season last year and a team that dominated for the previous two years was then kicked out the leagues made it quite a futile exercise.
  10. I can't compile a "what if" for promotion/relegation relegation for the last 4 years (too many missed fixtures) But St. Helens would at some point this season have won the Era League trophy, which would have been a nice highlight of this season. The Era league wouldn't have cost anything to apply and wouldn't change the current regular season either meanwhile if there was sponsor attached to it like 'BetFred', 'Dacia' or even 'Batchelors' that's all profit.
  11. RL fans are rightly concerned with the intentions of clubs and owners becasue we've been burnt so many times in the past. Celtic Crusaders are a prime example of a team fast tracked too soon into SL. Bradford Bulls have had several owners in the last 10 years who all promised to turn the club around. Marwan Koukash only lasted a 4 years as owner of Salford before throwing in the towel. Derek Beaumont is a very temperamental character who plows loads of money into Leigh then pulls the plug and leaves players in the lurch. How can relegating as many as 3-4 SL clubs at once be keeping the Status Quo it's taking a sledgehammer to the Status Quo. Nobody is investing in do nothing SL clubs and going nowhere Championship clubs.
  12. I believe 4 years works best at it will run parallel with a world cup cycle. Other sports think/operate in terms of the next world cup, I don't think RL should be any different. Every team would need to meet a minimum standard to even be eligible for SL. E.g Bradford Bulls could win the Championship every year but until we sort our pitch out we wouldn't qualify for SL. The 4 year cycle demonstrates which clubs can support a competitive team consistently thus proving a sustainable model. Many clubs have gone form boom to bust and owners have also come and gone in that time frame. You could go as high as 4 teams promoted after 4 years, which would be the equivalent of yearly P&R. 1 team promoted in 3 years is too little mobility between leagues in my opinion. 3-4 teams in four years creates genuine jeopardy for SL and a great incentive for Championship clubs. This system is a compromise of 2 systems. P&R on its own is too unreliable and unfair. Licensing feels too sterile and undeserved. Combine them together we might have something.
  13. Yes. And if we the governing body was really adventurous one or two more teams could have gone up/down. Salford and/or Wakefield replaced with Halifax and/or Widnes. Obviously that kind of decision would be made at the start of the cycle not halfway through it. From 2014 we would need a bit of magic to conjure up a realistic idea of what the Leagues would have looked like by the end of 2017. I'd have a guess in this alternate reality that Bradford (given their financial difficulties around this time) & Featherstone would probably finish in the bottom 2 of the era league. (Possibly Hull KR also Halifax and Widnes if they went up in the last cycle) And from The Championship Salford, London, Sheffield and Wakefield would all be in contention for going up in 2017. The super interesting question is who would have won the Super League Era league? As there were four different league leader's shield winners in each season. St. Helens, Leeds, Hull F.C & Castleford.
  14. Good question. I believe that given a time frame of 4 year cycles there would be more evidence for which teams are not financially stable enough to sustain their place either in SL or any league for that matter. Celtic Crusaders are a great example of a team that was fast tracked too soon into SL. Formed in 2005, played NL2 for 2 years, NL1 for a season then awarded SL status in 2009 only to go bust in 2011. That's all three RL divisions in just 4 years. If a team were to go bust in SL during a 4 year cycle I would suggest the top placed team in the Championship Era league replace them the following season and reduce the number of teams promoted overall at the end of that cycle by one. The team that is replacing the bust team in SL could be exempt from relegation if they're already 2 seasons or more into that particular cycle. For instance if we are one season away from the end of a 4 year cycle. OR An average points per season formula could be used if the replacement team is in Super League for 2 seasons or more? For instance if we are 3 seasons away from a the end of a 4 year cycle. That's the kind of scrutiny I was looking for, thank you.
  15. If that's the nature of sport then there's nothing wrong with Rugby League and there's nothing to complain about, change or adjust becasue it's all going perfectly well which is all I keep hearing all the time.
  16. Imagine watching a game toward the end of the 4th season where not only could your team beat a rival in the battle for play-off places or even advance in the play-offs themselves but by winning that game your team are awarded a trophy and crowned the greatest team of the Era. How many supporters would want to be there to witness it? Imagine if that game was the Grand Final itself. (Very remote change I admit)
  17. I didn't even know that, nice to see it's not such a radical idea. No league system is going to fit the demands of UK rugby League exactly but there's an overlap of ideas that I think is worth exploring.
  18. It's not that obscure and during this thread found out it's not even original concept.
  19. I by no means think this is a silver bullet answer to all RL's woes but I think it's worth meaningful consideration. Maybe it's becasue there's a sense of a lack of leadership in RL that I felt the need to even concoct such a system.
  20. Nothing like the eights. It's not decided over one season. It's much more considered and thorough. You can't get promoted/relegated on one season's performance. Doesn't have to be four teams it can be three if so desired. It's flexible.
  21. Haha! Asking me to name and shame. The Championship: Toulouse, York, Newcastle, London, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Halifax. Not including Bradford Bulls as I feel I that would be bias on my part. Super League: I won't say but ask yourself which clubs haven't finished in the top 6 more than twice in the last 10 years? Which team's highest ever placing is 5th in 22 years of playing SL? "Dead weight" is an unfair description. I only wish for every RL club to prosper but I don't see why some clubs get to continue to be an "also ran" in SL when Championship clubs could with SL status do so much more.
  22. The previous comments allegedly say it already exits. I have no knowledge. It's really not such a fair fetched or difficult idea.
  23. There's teams having good consistent seasons denied promotion by boom and bust clubs or convoluted play-off systems. Super League clubs have in the past been guilty on the past of only concentrating on not finishing last in the table and that's it. Newly promoted Championship clubs have one season to bridge the considerable gap between Championship and Super League. It's not fair and doesn't require stability. There's too much dead weight in Super League and too much potential squandered in The Championship.
  24. I honestly don't know. There's me getting all smug about something that already exists.
  25. It is simple. Everything stay's the same over 4 years then the 4 worst performing teams in Super League are replaced with the 4 best performing in The Championship.
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