Bob8

Leslie Phillips, 97

For reasons that escape me and are lost in time, I wanted to send a postcard from St Helens. Back then, this was a challenge and I could not find a picture postcard of St Helens until I finally found some for sale at the library. I commented to the librarian that the landscape pictured looked very pretty. She said, "Yes, but it's in Runcorn"- That was pretty damning. It is actually a bit better than that.

Clearly, the game today was not equal to the one I missed last weekend (well, I assume not), but I was also impressed at the coverage. Respectful, which is what we have asked for in all the time I have been alive.

In California, two storms turned out to be nothing at all, until I realised they had come that that was it. They were just not used to wind and rain. On the other hand, I relised that the reason my car was so dirty in the morning was that it was covered in soot in forest fire season. They were used to that.

How was round 1?

They pay me more in the USA, but I moved back here three times

Thanks for the post, and a time when we were both new on here.

Very fair.

Which sounds like it is far worse that League 2.

Blimey. I am not used to convincing people.

I took my missus to the York Fev game on our honeymoon. I just wish more men had the same sense of romance that I do.

My new employer is Canadian. I am trying to moderate my previous virulent anti-Canadian racism.

I very much agree. London has lots of top class sport. They have no need for more of it. If London clubs find a niche, it will need not be trying to compete with the exiting dominant sports.

Having been involved in a few expansion clubs, I would say a handful of capable voluteers can start a club anywhere, as long as one can coach. They can start a propoerous club and develop community roots. That is exceedingly rare though. The other thing that is difficult is working out what will work in each area. If what worked was purely the sport itself, and a rock track over a YouTube video, then we would have overtaken soccer a long time ago. Back when Danish rugby league was working in Copenhagen, they were going for a rather hipster crowd, which fitted as they had money and did not have a filled up market. But again, a few volunteers left and it fell apart. At the moment there is an initiative to bring games to village fates, as the local councils will pay for that and there is not the hipster market in countryside. It is not a model that would work in the UK, just as the UK model would not work in Denmark. "Informal matches, festivals etc have their place but there becomes a point were people want more and other sports usually easily provide that." Often, the festival aspect is an after thought. I suggest that where possible, it si easier to bring a game to a crowd rather than a crowd to a game. If your main focus the crowd, things are easier. If you just set up the thing you want them to like and try and make it more palatable with a beer and hot dog stand, of course it will flop and will deserve to. All to often, we try to recreate what we fell in love with. There was a poster who was convinced that London desperately needed a mass spectator working class sport, because he was from Leigh and did not believe that soccer had filled that niche. I would suggest that when you describe a proper league, you are slightly falling into that trap. I would suggest a couple of things that might appear daft: - Do we need a proper league? In soccer the Champions League, World Cup etc all manage without one? We should not assume that success has a certain format. - Super League is viable as it is a product for a national satellite broadcaster which will pay slightly over the odds for a must have product that will make people pay for a satellite dish. Those days might be coming to an end, and we should be wondering what the future is. I suggest it is more international and perhaps as a second rate product for wealthy cities that do not have top flight sport at the moment (Brussels vs Oslo (or Ealing) in front of 1000 might well be more economically viable that two working class two towns in front of 3000).

Indeed. Was it Novo Scotia or Newfoundland who played 13-a-side? But, Canadian football is a fantastic name for the Canadian market. 'League' on the other hand is rubbish.

Wow. "League". That is what the Vichy Government did pretty much. Would you like 'game of 13'.

Both american football and canadian football pass my krofball analogy. I mean, as a proud American or less embarrassed Canadian, those are the games that you would want to watch. Until someone can come up with a name that would work that well now and not be as cringeworthy, then I am all for it. I just doubt it exists.

When Vichy wanted rugby league to die, they banned the use of "rugby" in the name, not "league". If you think a name change might help, think what name you could give korfball to make you interested in it. If you do not think a name change would work, you have your answer. If you have a name that would make you and many others suddenly take an interest, I would love to hear it.

I really do not think a team in Ealing would undermine a team in Haringay anymore than Hull are taking fans from Bradford. I think it is questionable whether there is room for a Super League team. But, I would put it another way, where is the gap in the market? I would say Manchester, Sydney, Melbourne and London are about the four most competitive sports markets on the planet. What room there is is a niche, a rustic middle class alternative culture thing in Ealing perhaps, where they are rich enough that you would not need a large crowd, and the quality of the rugby would not be the main thing. Writing from foreign, we take for granted how crowded the sports markets are. The nearest city to where I am is Copenhagen, between Liverpool and Manchester in size. The biggest sports team in the city have crowds comparable to Wigan Warriors. Meanwhile, in London, many top level sports are fighting it out. No-one in London needs rugby league to offer them top class sport.

I agree it would be better. It would still be too many places for not enough candidates and a rather arbitary cut-off.

The issue is it is now primarily a media product. In fact, it is a TV product for the newly emerging media market of the 1990's. That is so long ago that I was young.

The problem Super League has is looking for twelve decent candidate from seven big teams. Neither franchising nor P&R will solve this.

Actually, would you pm me. I would like to tell you a lot more about it.

Not much in all, but I will tell you the story if we catch up ever!

May I ask where you heard that?