Castleford hit with pretty big fine

[Dave T]

Yes I did, particularly this bit....

So tell me how a club prevents chanting other than gagging the fans as they come into the ground ? They can stop it after it's started and take actions against offenders but they can not actually prevent it from happening in the first place. Something has to happen in order for them to do anything about it.

Of course pre-emptive action can be taken. Announcements can be made warning fans of the consequences of foul and abusive language, homophobic or racist chanting.

[Blind side johnny]

Think the fine is over the top. And where do you draw the line between calling Homophobic chants and making fun of somebodies Natural hair colour, where they were born (Yorkshire, Lancashire, Australia etc)? Why is abusing officials seemingly OK and accepted by the RFL and certain players not? Just how far do Cas or any club go to stop a chant by a SMALL section of people before they do not get a fine? I cant see Cas being the only place Thomas got grief.

If it's only a SMALL section then the club stewards should be able to deal with it there and then. The fact that they haven't is an indictment of the club hence the fine.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

As long as the RFL are consistent I don;t think there can be any complaints

[Dave T]

As long as the RFL are consistent I don;t think there can be any complaints

Yep, personally I don't see any reason why they would be any harsher on Cas than any other team.

It's worth pointing out that

[marklaspalmas]

Yes I did, particularly this bit....

So tell me how a club prevents chanting other than gagging the fans as they come into the ground ? They can stop it after it's started and take actions against offenders but they can not actually prevent it from happening in the first place. Something has to happen in order for them to do anything about it.

"The tribunal was chaired by his Honour Judge Rodney Grant, who criticised the club for failing to take steps to stop the homophobic chanting, for failing to identify the perpetrators, for failing to challenge the chanting and for their failure to undertake a meaningful inquiry afterwards."

That's what the article said. That's why they were fined. Dave T has just pointed out to you one simple thing that is proactive rather than reactive. There are many others.

Throwing your hands in the air saying what can we do about it sounds like the soccer clubs back in the 70s with their hooligans and rascists. The message is clear to ALL RL clubs (unfortunately for Cas, they pick up the tab as an example is being made of them): Get it sorted out, homophobia is not on.

[Castigers13]

Seems Gaz likes to give a bit of abuse himself to fans.

Link

Anyway whiter than white and all that

[terrywebbisgod]

Seems Gaz likes to give a bit of abuse himself to fans.

Link

Anyway whiter than white and all that

Why was he attempting to enter the stand, homophobic abuse maybe?

Jumping into a stand to have a go at someone is slightly different to the vile abuse he got at Cas isn't it.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

If it's only a SMALL section then the club stewards should be able to deal with it there and then. The fact that they haven't is an indictment of the club hence the fine.

It was only a small section but how can you prove that this person said it or not amongst a group of people? How do you eject somebody from a ground for allegedly saying something? It could easily of been others near him. And it could easily get to the point where somebody tries to sue a club for allegedly chanting something and being kicked out due to no evidence. We all know Lawyers would likely have a field day with trying to win that one. I think its very harsh to blame Cas as a club and fine them. What framework do the RFL have in place when Internationals or Cup Finals are held and a section chants somethjing like this? What Framework is there for Clubs to follow, to stop this in future?Maybe the RFL could explain to all clubs what they expect from Clubs and Stewards regarding Chants and how to deal with it. What may in thought be easy to do in reality is harder to achieve.

And I fail to see much difference from the abuse the match officials get than what Thomas received. And the abusing of match officials is normal and sung at all games." The referee is a Wan:er" or "who

[Castigers13]

Why was he attempting to enter the stand, homophobic abuse maybe?

Jumping into a stand to have a go at someone is slightly different to the vile abuse he got at Cas isn't it.

Doubt it as it's from 2007 and he didn't come out until 2009.

the vile abuse, do you know what was said to him them.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

RL is a mans sport at the end of the day. Not for public schooled pansies like RU.

Rugby league is for everybody

you have an odd notion of what a man is if you think abusing peoples' sexuality is 'manly'

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Am i the only one that can see Thomas' presence is detracting from the tough image the game has developed?

I hope so

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Seems Gaz likes to give a bit of abuse himself to fans.

Link

Anyway whiter than white and all that

that makes it all right then.

thomas was heavily fined and banned, so no doubt you agree with castleford's punishment.

Thomas was provoked: that is no justification, but goes some way to explaining what he did.

were the fans at castleford provoked? If so how?

[terrywebbisgod]

Doubt it as it's from 2007 and he didn't come out until 2009.

the vile abuse, do you know what was said to him them.

Homophobic abuse is vile, were you one of the ones who was doing it?

[Dave T]

It was only a small section but how can you prove that this person said it or not amongst a group of people? How do you eject somebody from a ground for allegedly saying something? It could easily of been others near him. And it could easily get to the point where somebody tries to sue a club for allegedly chanting something and being kicked out due to no evidence. We all know Lawyers would likely have a field day with trying to win that one. I think its very harsh to blame Cas as a club and fine them. What framework do the RFL have in place when Internationals or Cup Finals are held and a section chants somethjing like this? What Framework is there for Clubs to follow, to stop this in future?Maybe the RFL could explain to all clubs what they expect from Clubs and Stewards regarding Chants and how to deal with it. What may in thought be easy to do in reality is harder to achieve.

I don't personally know what action Cas took at the time, the comments on here seemed to suggest that it was other fans who actually shut them up as opposed to anything the club did, although I cannot confirm that. Surely an announcement (ideally before it happened - I know my club certainly make announcements in place before and during the match) and then perhaps a visible presence of stewards in that area. Nobody would necessarily have to be ejected, as you say, this could be difficult, however making an announcement there and then that this is not acceptable, and putting a line of stewards in front of this small section of crowds would demonstrate that the club were taking this seriously. For anybody that was there, did anything like this happen?

And I fail to see much difference from the abuse the match officials get than what Thomas received. And the abusing of match officials is normal and sung at all games." The referee is a Wan:er" or "who

[Viking Warrior]

RL is a mans sport at the end of the day. Not for public schooled pansies like RU.

i found this song on youtube just for you..................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNo8gUheg3I

[Viking Warrior]

One yorkshire club, of course nothing ever happens in the "land that time forgot" west of the Pennines does it?

why do you feel the need to bring cumbria into this???

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Calling someone a 'w*nker' is nothing like racism or homphobia. Not even close.

So its OK to call the Ref or linesman ####..s? And surely any abuse should be frowned upon?

Try it at your local pub for example. Shout and call someone a 'w*nker' and you will get told off for swearing perhaps. Use a racist or homophobic word and towards a black person or gay and people aren't just going to tell you off for the use of a swear-word.

Depends which pub you go in. Call somebody a ###### you will usually get a smack for your troubles or ignored.

How many Ginger people have been oppressed, locked up, beaten up, killed, simply for being ginger?

Foul language is not the same as racist or homophobic langauge.

But thats not the point. Who cares if somebody has been locked away for being gay or black on this discussion? We are talking about what happens at a Stadium. Why is it OK to abuse somebody who is an official or somebody who has Red Hair or is from Liverpool, Australia etc but not somebody who is Gay or Black at a Rugby match? Surely the same rules apply to all? I have seen on here people abuse Australian Posters and its accepted.

[Dave T]

So its OK to call the Ref or linesman ####..s? And surely any abuse should be frowned upon?

Depends which pub you go in. Call somebody a ###### you will usually get a smack for your troubles or ignored.

But thats not the point. Who cares if somebody has been locked away for being gay or black on this discussion? We are talking about what happens at a Stadium. Why is it OK to abuse somebody who is an official or somebody who has Red Hair or is from Liverpool, Australia etc but not somebody who is Gay or Black at a Rugby match? Surely the same rules apply to all? I have seen on here people abuse Australian Posters and its accepted.

Are you suggesting that there is only one level of abuse and offensiveness?

If I was at a RL match and called James Graham a 'Ginger Scouser' (obviously from my seat where he can't see me!), and then turn and call a handicapped girl at the front a 'f*cking *******' that they are the same thing because they are both abuse?

It is absolute nonsense.

EDIT: just in case some found my terminology offensive.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Dave T

[1976PMJwires]

In an ideal world we should have dignity and respect for mankind (personkind to be PC)

What we have here on this thread is people's views and opinions.

Rightly or wrongly it is down to an individual(s) whether they can tolorate this behaviour or not. ie Ignore.

some will laugh it off, others will blow the roof off, others will report it or others will kick out.

for me there is no way another human should be subjected to any "abuse" but it happens, so as individuals we have to make a decision.

Tolorate (no way should we have to IMHO)

Report

Or Monitor the situation (how can we defuse, discuss, manage it)

we live in a cruel cruel world with many different views / beliefs / opinions

MODS

Lock this thread FFS, somebody is going to say something they might regret.

[Old Frightful]

MODS

Lock this thread FFS, somebody is going to say something they might regret.

Judging by BringBacktheBiff's comments and his disappearing act, I would say somebody already has.

[Derwent]

"The tribunal was chaired by his Honour Judge Rodney Grant, who criticised the club for failing to take steps to stop the homophobic chanting, for failing to identify the perpetrators, for failing to challenge the chanting and for their failure to undertake a meaningful inquiry afterwards."

That's what the article said. That's why they were fined. Dave T has just pointed out to you one simple thing that is proactive rather than reactive. There are many others.

Throwing your hands in the air saying what can we do about it sounds like the soccer clubs back in the 70s with their hooligans and rascists. The message is clear to ALL RL clubs (unfortunately for Cas, they pick up the tab as an example is being made of them): Get it sorted out, homophobia is not on.

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean. I'm not exonerating anyone or saying the clubs have no responsibility in these matters.

Of course clubs can take proactive action such as warning people what will happen if they do chant offensive stuff, as I said on page 1 of this thread, but they simply can not physically prevent someone from doing so beforehand. Clubs must do all they can to stop it happening, but they can only do so much and ultimately the only people who can stop it are the fans themselves. Clubs can remind fans every 30 seconds about it but if one idiot decides to shout something offensive then I really don't see what any club could do to prevent the actions of an individual(s) who decides to ignore all of the requests and warnings not to do so. The only really tangible thing that clubs can do is identify the culprits and make sure they are banned for life, and they must be obligated to do so, but again that is different to prevention.

[Viking Warrior]

from my time playing the game and being involved at every level, believe me gareth thomas and ian roberts are not the only gay players in rl, most teams have had at least one gay player over the years yes and some were gb internationals, but unfortunately only 2 have been brave enough to be open about their sexuality...

and yes 2 of them have played for castleford..................

Edited June 29, 2010 by Viking Warrior

[hindle xiii]

from my time playing the game and being involved at every level, believe me gareth thomas and ian roberts are not the only gay players in rl, most teams have had at least one gay player over the years yes and some were gb internationals, but unfortunately only 2 have been brave enough to be open about their sexuality...

and yes 2 of them have played for castleford..................

Richard Gay.

[Viking Warrior]

Richard Gay.

in name only, richard was as straight as a dye.......keep guessing

[hindle xiii]

in name only, richard was as straight as a dye.......keep guessing

Hence the wink.

Not playing the game, just a nice coincedence.