So what has SL Achieved ?

[Jimmy B]

Fifteen years ago our game received what I can only describe as "manna from heaven" - a TV contract from Sky TV which has subseqently seen a previously only dreamt of cash injection - which now must total something like ( and an estimation my part )

Edited July 4, 2010 by Jimmy B

[Jimmy B]

OK then, what exactly did it achieve in the previous 100 years? a few clubs here and there?

A pathetic result for 100 years.

RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100.

The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like

Edited July 4, 2010 by Jimmy B

[mick wilson]

OK then, what exactly did it achieve in the previous 100 years? a few clubs here and there?

A pathetic result for 100 years.

RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100.

Agreed, judge it after another 10 years and i'll wager the sport will be very strong indeed.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

No, you tell me what it achieved before then. In 100 years.

In fairness Johnoco, he did start the thread asking for that question to be answered

[shrek]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like

[Joe Shep]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just what has the Professional game got to show for the money they have received from Sky over the last 15 years ?

I've enjoyed watching it

[l'angelo mysterioso]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question was what has the professional game got to show for something like

[goldcard]

London Crusaders were just about hanging in there pre-S/L and were lower tier for a few years.

They've only recently found a stable venue and base, but it's far from being in the "right place".

However, defining the "right place" in London from a fanbase point of view has been debated a fair few times.

However, what they have done away from S/L in expanding the grass root development is fantastic, and all pro clubs are judged on what they do in the local game.

Money from Sky and SportEngland goes there too, and so whilst it seems there's an Elite, the game is being strengthened.

The tours, well, it's cos we lined up our season with the Aussies.

If they switched to summer too, they could return, you know.

However, the 4 Nations concept could eventually take off as a replacement for a test series.

Maybe warm-up games v clubs could be a bigger part.

Stadia?

Done to death.

[L Bow]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fifteen years ago our game received what I can only describe as "manner from heaven" - a TV contract from Sky TV which has subseqently seen a previously only dreamt of cash injection - which now must total something like ( and an estimation my part )

[bowes]

RL has made more GENUINE advancement in the last 10 years, than the previous 100.

Not true really, the game expanded by far the most in the BARLA boom at its pinnacle in the 80s with huge increases in numbers of amateur clubs both in and outside the heartlands, the game really was in a bad state in 1973, just unfortunately this boom was already significantly in decline by the time SL started. About 20 years ago there were 5 RL clubs in Gloucestershire playing the same season as RU, unimaginable now.

What has improved in the last 10 years is juniors outside the heartlands. The flipside of the coin is that this is little to do with SL and more a combination of better communications and the ability to use RU players in the offseason rather than having to find committed RL players (in some cases these are one and the same players of course, but in somewhere like Ireland, Scotland or the deep South West that is less the case). In fact the non-heartland juniors will have grown up on 8 months RU and 3 months RL unless we change this and the current set up will be continued

Of course the answer to this thread is SL has improved the top division and done less for clubs in lower divisions. The sooner we have a sensible Championship setup the better and hopefully bringing the game into one season will allow that. Drop the unsuitable clubs from the pro leagues to a more realistic level and go for one Championship division

Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes

[bowes]

Not disputing that bowes, you clearly know more than me about it. But how many set ups were there like say, Leeds Akkies? ie a 'fun' social sort of thing? (with apologies if that is a wrong description)

I suppose pub teams were the equivalent (a lot harder to enter them in winter leagues nowadays due to there not being leagues down to about division 8 or 9 anymore).

I do think you raise a valid point though and I think merit leagues for new clubs are a very good thing rather than chucking clubs that can't fulfil weekly fixtures into the main leagues like they used to (actually the early days of the RLC you had to play friendlies like we did in our first season; the throw anyone in started with NL3 and the RLC Premier divisions leaving gaps needing filling). I think when the season is in summer we should aim for the established non-heartland clubs to play a full season when possible, but still retain shorter seasons and merit leagues for getting RU players and new players into the game, and also for the social element and reserve teams.

The RLC was originally as much to save rugby league outside the heartlands as to grow it and it has certainly done that and got us back to about the same numbers in full adult leagues, but actually more when you take merit leagues and juniors into account there's a lot more players (outside of places like Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Gloucestershire than used to have a lot of winter clubs), only you have to factor in the RU reliance.

Long term I think the RLC will become redundant and each region will have its own league structure as part of the pyramid on a par with the BARLA leagues. With merit leagues as the lower divisions of this structure and some short season leagues as an alternative.

Is much of this to do with SL, not really, some of the growth in London and Wales is, but not as much as people would make out. Hard work from volunteers, regional development officers and community coaches has done more (Sport England money largely). I think the contrast between the large number of players in London and the appalling crowds at Harlequins shows it's not just SL supporters going along to play.

But yes SL has done a lot for the top level and if done properly franchising will increase the top level quality (i.e. select clubs according to quality as opposed to either just keeping the same clubs in or rigging criteria to put in unsuitable expansion clubs 3-6 years before they're ready).

I think the new direction of the community game will be a big benefit to the sport in the same way BARLA saved the amateur game and introduced it to non-heartland areas (3 amateur teams in London were the only non-heartland teams in the whole of the UK in 1973 when BARLA was formed!) and the RLC saved it outside the heartlands.

In fact in 1973 Wigan, St Helens, Widnes, Leigh, Bradford, Heavy Woollen, South Yorkshire etc. didn't have a league for their clubs to play in at all. Some played in other district leagues (Wigan St Patrick's in Warrington League comes to mind), but the game really was dying before the forced mergers of leagues

Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes

[bowes]

delete double post

Edited July 4, 2010 by bowes

[The Parksider]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 4 2010, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just what has the Professional game got to show for the money they have received from Sky over the last 15 years ?

You simply answer your own question. Senior RL was largely semi professional in 1995, the money from SKY has created a fully professional Rugby League, saved our best players from going to union and underpinned enough interest in the game at junior and amateur level to keep it alive enough to have a future of sorts.

It's a decent enough return given the state the game was in in 1995 and given that the free gangway gave RU the opportunity to clean up on "rugby" per se.

Now what's your problem?

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I suppose pub teams were the equivalent (a lot harder to enter them in winter leagues nowadays due to there not being leagues down to about division 8 or 9 anymore).

I do think you raise a valid point though and I think merit leagues for new clubs are a very good thing rather than chucking clubs that can't fulfil weekly fixtures into the main leagues like they used to (actually the early days of the RLC you had to play friendlies like we did in our first season; the throw anyone in started with NL3 and the RLC Premier divisions leaving gaps needing filling). I think when the season is in summer we should aim for the established non-heartland clubs to play a full season when possible, but still retain shorter seasons and merit leagues for getting RU players and new players into the game, and also for the social element and reserve teams.

The RLC was originally as much to save rugby league outside the heartlands as to grow it and it has certainly done that and got us back to about the same numbers in full adult leagues, but actually more when you take merit leagues and juniors into account there's a lot more players (outside of places like Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Gloucestershire than used to have a lot of winter clubs), only you have to factor in the RU reliance.

Long term I think the RLC will become redundant and each region will have its own league structure as part of the pyramid on a par with the BARLA leagues. With merit leagues as the lower divisions of this structure and some short season leagues as an alternative.

Is much of this to do with SL, not really, some of the growth in London and Wales is, but not as much as people would make out. Hard work from volunteers, regional development officers and community coaches has done more (Sport England money largely). I think the contrast between the large number of players in London and the appalling crowds at Harlequins shows it's not just SL supporters going along to play.

But yes SL has done a lot for the top level and if done properly franchising will increase the top level quality (i.e. select clubs according to quality as opposed to either just keeping the same clubs in or rigging criteria to put in unsuitable expansion clubs 3-6 years before they're ready).

I think the new direction of the community game will be a big benefit to the sport in the same way BARLA saved the amateur game and introduced it to non-heartland areas (3 amateur teams in London were the only non-heartland teams in the whole of the UK in 1973 when BARLA was formed!) and the RLC saved it outside the heartlands.

In fact in 1973 Wigan, St Helens, Widnes, Leigh, Bradford, Heavy Woollen, South Yorkshire etc. didn't have a league for their clubs to play in at all. Some played in other district leagues (Wigan St Patrick's in Warrington League comes to mind), but the game really was dying before the forced mergers of leagues

Pub teams aren't the equivalent RLC clubs in any shape or form.

[Jimmy B]

You simply answer your own question. Senior RL was largely semi professional in 1995, the money from SKY has created a fully professional Rugby League, saved our best players from going to union and underpinned enough interest in the game at junior and amateur level to keep it alive enough to have a future of sorts.

It's a decent enough return given the state the game was in in 1995 and given that the free gangway gave RU the opportunity to clean up on "rugby" per se.

Now what's your problem?

Please believe me I don't have a problem !

I have supported this game for over 50 Years.

I have been very fortunate to have seen my chosen club win every trophy they have ever won. That includes three Challenge Cups, a First Division Championship, the Yorkshire Cup, two wins against Australian touring sides.

On the other side of the coin I have seen them relegated three times - and bounce straight back and win promotion three times.

But don't the bad times make the good times so much better ?

If my team never wins another thing no-one can take away the experiences I have enjoyed which are much more numerous than supporters of many other clubs could ever wish for. Memories that will last forever !

Sky money - so we were told , was to benefit the game overall ( I have still got the newspaper cuttings that told us so) yet for the life of me I cannot see where the promised benefits have materialised.

My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of

[The Parksider]

edit

Edited July 5, 2010 by The Parksider

[The Parksider]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 5 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of

[Viking Warrior]

one major negative has been that the majority of clubs outside super league have sacrificed their youth development structures, and gone for the quick fix of filling their first teams with foreigners in order to attempt to attain super league status. this is still true even after the introduction of the license system..............

sorry forgot to mention that a sizeable chunk of the 200,000,000 has been used to bolster the pension funds of ageing antipodeans, att the expense of young british talent.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Viking Warrior

[l'angelo mysterioso]

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 5 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please believe me I don't have a problem !

I have supported this game for over 50 Years.

I have been very fortunate to have seen my chosen club win every trophy they have ever won. That includes three Challenge Cups, a First Division Championship, the Yorkshire Cup, two wins against Australian touring sides.

On the other side of the coin I have seen them relegated three times - and bounce straight back and win promotion three times.

But don't the bad times make the good times so much better ?

If my team never wins another thing no-one can take away the experiences I have enjoyed which are much more numerous than supporters of many other clubs could ever wish for. Memories that will last forever !

Sky money - so we were told , was to benefit the game overall ( I have still got the newspaper cuttings that told us so) yet for the life of me I cannot see where the promised benefits have materialised.

My original question, what has the professional game got to show for an injection of

Edited July 5, 2010 by l'angelo mysterioso

[bowes]

Pub teams aren't the equivalent RLC clubs in any shape or form.

He did say social club not RLC club. But some RLC clubs are the equivalent of pub teams, some are very well run amateur clubs, some are somewhere between.

At Coventry we run:

1sts

2nds

Under 16s

Under 14s

Under 12s

Women's

Girls Under 12

Plus have a schools competition and this is about average for the big clubs in the midlands.

However, in the deep South West (i.e. not Gloucestershire and Bristol) every club is just one team of RU players. Also in the midlands we had one club Burntwood who were just a team of RU players wanting a summer keep fit and a few fights