International Club side

[Southern Tiger]

Surely we must be able get an Ireland and Scotland side into the Championship 1, its not rocket science and we're just wasting time not going ahead with this - its rediculous.

[bowes]

Irish RL (West Wicklow Vikings aside, who are struggling both for fixtures and consequently numbers) is just RU clubs having a way to keep players fit in summer and Scottish RL (Edinburgh Eagles/Napier University (more or less the same thing) aside) is the same. Scotland at least have juniors and could at a stretch be a long term aim, but Ireland doesn't have a single junior team in the whole country (there are efforts to set up West Wicklow Shamrocks but again one side doesn't work)

There are so many places better to get a Championship 1 side than Scotland and Ireland and given that Skolars and Gateshead are really struggling despite infinitely better local setups, the problem is the players of the right standard aren't there and nor are the supporters. Championship 1 has too many weak struggling teams as is without artificially creating more where noone wants them. Far better to look at somewhere in the midlands than Scotland or Ireland and even then I'm not convinced we're ready

You really need to get a grip on reality it really isn't simple and we really aren't wasting our time not blowing lots of money for nothing.

[Methven Hornet]

Surely we must be able get an Ireland and Scotland side into the Championship 1, its not rocket science and we're just wasting time not going ahead with this - its rediculous.

Going off quotes from various sources I think it is the aim to have clubs at that level from those places - just as it was the aim (for years) to have clubs from Wales, the North East and France. Similarly, the RFL want clubs from all the regions of England. The problem is getting the resources - financial, playing, development - into place. Difficult in normal times, I would have thought it would be near impossible to launch a new club in the UK just now (and just think how much worse off Ireland is).

Who would underwrite the venture? Local authorities and other public bodies would have very little in the way of resources to dedicate to a new spectator sport for their area, especially as there will be plenty of existing clubs of long-standing that will be first in the queue.

Added to the above is the fact that the existing method of introducing new pro/semi-pro clubs from new areas - slotting them into the existing, northern structure - hasn't exactly been a roaring success; and that has, generally, been during relatively benign economic times.

Perhaps the priority should be to protect what we already have, whilst continuing to plough on with grass-roots development.

[Northern Sol]

Surely we must be able get an Ireland and Scotland side into the Championship 1, its not rocket science and we're just wasting time not going ahead with this - its rediculous.

So what's stopping you starting one?

[bowes]

So what's stopping you starting one?

Yeah if it's that easy to do he should be able to start one himself

[steef]

was going to reply but changed my mind, here is a funny picture instead.

[The Future is League]

Surely we must be able get an Ireland and Scotland side into the Championship 1, its not rocket science and we're just wasting time not going ahead with this - its rediculous.

one of the aims of having a magic weekend in Edinburgh was to create interest in the game, and hoping that the interest would lead to a Championship 1 club being formed. to my knowledge know party or party's in Scotland showed any interest in forming a Championship 1 club. its know good the RFL putting a club anywhere unless people come forward an offer to run it.

i would like to see a semi pro club in Scotland or Ireland or both, but it isn't going to happen just yet.

[RP London]

they need to either put the money in themselves.. (the RFL that is) or find someone prepared to fund the venture..

RFL isnt loaded and probably doesnt have a spare 1/2million to throw around willy nilly

there arent loads of people queueing up at the moment out hand out money..

if there had been no leighton samuels arguably there would have been no celtic crusaders and even with himit was nearly over int he summer..

Ireland would need one man to step forward and start a club, they would have horrific travelling every week for what would be a semi pro club and would need large amounts of money to try and get things sorted.. at the moment that just isnt going to happen

scotland just seems to have no stomach for club sport outside of football a the moment.

[no13benny]

one of the aims of having a magic weekend in Edinburgh was to create interest in the game, and hoping that the interest would lead to a Championship 1 club being formed. to my knowledge know party or party's in Scotland showed any interest in forming a Championship 1 club. its know good the RFL putting a club anywhere unless people come forward an offer to run it.

i would like to see a semi pro club in Scotland or Ireland or both, but it isn't going to happen just yet.

Agreed not sure the RFL can plant clubs in places forking out money and time, there has to be some interest in the countries.

What I would have thought is that the people involved in the International set ups of those countries would see the obvious benefits of doing it and get their act together. You'd then have top quality coaches who can also sell the game to potential sponsors and backers, and set up an adequate youth system. All of this would be with a view to help the national teams.

On a side issue, N O = no (thanks), K N O W = (I) Know (that)

[The Parksider]

one of the aims of having a magic weekend in Edinburgh was to create interest in the game, and hoping that the interest would lead to a Championship 1 club being formed. to my knowledge know party or party's in Scotland showed any interest in forming a Championship 1 club. its know good the RFL putting a club anywhere unless people come forward an offer to run it.

i would like to see a semi pro club in Scotland or Ireland or both, but it isn't going to happen just yet.

I'm not sure what the aim of the Magic weekend was, is or will be but it certainly must be linked to promoting Crusaders formerly and latterly promoting RL in a country where kids are taking it up.

I can see a link between junior rugby league and academies and SL clubs in a pyramid of playing that can get the best RL talent from anywhere in France, England Wales and Scotland to the top.

I just cannot see where "an NL club" has any relevance at all to this system that is developing???

Had big money men come into Superleague, and had the Rugby fans in non traditional areas responded to Suerleague in numbers then you may have had Mo's vision of clubs in Glasgow, Cardiff, Birmingham, Newcastle, London as well as Wigan, Leeds and Hull and Paris sitting atop of a junior structure across all four countries feeding the acedemies.

I don't think developing NL clubs in new areas was ever on the agenda until expansion faltered so badly from the original plan that Nigel Wood uttered something about a watered down idea of starting with NL clubs in new areas.

Fine if SKY are going to pay for it.

Where we are now is hoping that kids continue to play RL up to 200 miles away from "their" nearest SL club, and if they are any good travel to an SL club and take a chance on academy success........

[Southern Tiger]

Yeah if it's that easy to do he should be able to start one himself

I have from nothing and NO teams, its turned into a south west division in less than 10 years - but thats where I am located.

[RP London]

I have from nothing and NO teams, its turned into a south west division in less than 10 years - but thats where I am located.

then how dare you come on here and comment on the forming of clubs in other areas if you are not prepared to move there, get a new job and deal with that area instead of continuing with the expansion in your own area!!!

to be honest i think part of it is time on the development side.. they have good coaches and DO style coaches in ireland and i believe scotland but the funding isnt there for more, chicken and egg a little here.. but also they dont have the time whilst dealing with the clubs and the leagues and their issues to get into setting up semi pro clubs which is quite a major task and needs a major backer to help with the above to get hem going..

i thnk it is an aim but needs toget a few peices in place together to be able to push that aim through..

I would suspect there are plans out there for this but they need some of those peices to come together and present economic climate those peices just arent coming in.

[audois]

then how dare you come on here and comment on the forming of clubs in other areas if you are not prepared to move there, get a new job and deal with that area instead of continuing with the expansion in your own area!!!

to be honest i think part of it is time on the development side.. they have good coaches and DO style coaches in ireland and i believe scotland but the funding isnt there for more, chicken and egg a little here.. but also they dont have the time whilst dealing with the clubs and the leagues and their issues to get into setting up semi pro clubs which is quite a major task and needs a major backer to help with the above to get hem going..

i thnk it is an aim but needs toget a few peices in place together to be able to push that aim through..

I would suspect there are plans out there for this but they need some of those peices to come together and present economic climate those peices just arent coming in.

I thought Richard Lewis had said that they had presently a RLC club in nearly every county in the country. Wasn't their aspiration from there to have may be a Championship club in all nine Sports Council regions in the long term. Others see possibly as an interim a NCL quality set-up if that competition becomes a summer league from 2012.

[deluded pom?]

On a side issue, N O = no (thanks), K N O W = (I) Know (that)

You beat me to it benny. I've never known anyone spell no wrongly before. Another pet hate is "are" for our and "could of/should of/would of" instead of could've/should've /would've. It's short for could have/should have/would have for those that are unaware. Rant over.

[RP London]

I thought Richard Lewis had said that they had presently a RLC club in nearly every county in the country. Wasn't their aspiration from there to have may be a Championship club in all nine Sports Council regions in the long term. Others see possibly as an interim a NCL quality set-up if that competition becomes a summer league from 2012.

yes but these are aspirations not being able to do in the next couple of years.. there will be plans in placve.. some of them maybe stretching 20 years with goals for each year.. those plans may well hae been put back with goals being missed due to the financial restraints in place at the moment.. but we certainly are not ready to jump in with both fet into ireland and scotland.

[The Future is League]

Agreed not sure the RFL can plant clubs in places forking out money and time, there has to be some interest in the countries.

What I would have thought is that the people involved in the International set ups of those countries would see the obvious benefits of doing it and get their act together. You'd then have top quality coaches who can also sell the game to potential sponsors and backers, and set up an adequate youth system. All of this would be with a view to help the national teams.

On a side issue, N O = no (thanks), K N O W = (I) Know (that)

sorry for my basic English mistakes, but i didn't have a very good education. i do my best, but i understand sometimes my best is not good enough.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Future is League

[The Future is League]

You beat me to it benny. I've never known anyone spell no wrongly before. Another pet hate is "are" for our and "could of/should of/would of" instead of could've/should've /would've. It's short for could have/should have/would have for those that are unaware. Rant over.

i guess i'm just thick then. i will try and get better i promise.

[The Parksider]

I thought Richard Lewis had said that they had presently a RLC club in nearly every county in the country. Wasn't their aspiration from there to have may be a Championship club in all nine Sports Council regions in the long term. Others see possibly as an interim a NCL quality set-up if that competition becomes a summer league from 2012.

Lewis's aspirations is to get people playing wherever he can and to complete a free gangway must be to see RL played at all age and skill levels of the amateur game as possible and get the game back to an even keel or better with Rugby Union.

Creating semi professional clubs at a time when semi professionalism as we have known it in the north is not as viable any more, and creating it when the RFL are not prepared to back it doesn't seem to me to be Lewis's ambition at all.

If it's his ambition for others then it's disingenuous.

[Southern Tiger]

Lewis's aspirations is to get people playing wherever he can and to complete a free gangway must be to see RL played at all age and skill levels of the amateur game as possible and get the game back to an even keel or better with Rugby Union.

Creating semi professional clubs at a time when semi professionalism as we have known it in the north is not as viable any more, and creating it when the RFL are not prepared to back it doesn't seem to me to be Lewis's ambition at all.

If it's his ambition for others then it's disingenuous.

Agreed, but as a genuine question, does anyone know how much it costs to set up a new Ch1 club such as we've recently seen with the South Wales Scorpions?

[The Parksider]

Agreed, but as a genuine question, does anyone know how much it costs to set up a new Ch1 club such as we've recently seen with the South Wales Scorpions?

A few hundred grand I suspect ST..........

[no13benny]

sorry for my basic English mistakes, but i didn't have a very good education. i do my best, but i understand sometimes my best is not good enough.

Fair enough, I just thought it was worth pointing out for future reference, but what you are saying is always far more important to me than how you spell it.

[bowes]

A few hundred grand I suspect ST..........

...per year

[bowes]

I have from nothing and NO teams, its turned into a south west division in less than 10 years - but thats where I am located.

Why not start a pro team then? The SW division has as many teams as the Scottish league and playes more games so should be as easy to start a pro team there than Scotland?

In reality of course starting amateur clubs is what we should be doing like you say in the SW. It would be reckless to start a Scottish or Irish Championship 1 side now it would be much harder than rocket science to make it work

Edited July 14, 2010 by bowes

[Southern Tiger]

Why not start a pro team then? The SW division has as many teams as the Scottish league and playes more games so should be as easy to start a pro team there than Scotland?

In reality of course starting amateur clubs is what we should be doing like you say in the SW. It would be reckless to start a Scottish or Irish Championship 1 side now it would be much harder than rocket science to make it work

I'm not so sure, I guess the debate is foe either a top (Ch1 in this case) down or bottom amature division up approach. Ideally, I think you need both - not sure what the Ch1 averages for crowds but I would guess that its also a realistic target for a new venture too. I also think that the RFL should prioritise Ireland and Scotland for the good of the International game as it would be an easier progression for youngsters who come through the amature game and have potential to be kept in Rugby League and are currently being lost to the rival codes broader pro reach.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Southern Tiger

[RP London]

I'm not so sure, I guess the debate is foe either a top (Ch1 in this case) down or bottom amature division up approach. Ideally, I think you need both - not sure what the Ch1 averages for crowds but I would guess that its also a realistic target for a new venture too. I also think that the RFL should prioritise Ireland and Scotland for the good of the International game as it would be an easier progression for youngsters who come through the amature game and have potential to be kept in Rugby League and are currently being lost to the rival codes broader pro reach.

personlly i think a champ 1 side in ireland and scotland is doable at the moment with the countries at the stages they are in..

Gates wise to be competative/comparative they wouldnt need that much but they would need ot be in the right place.. ie with Ireland GAA takes place around now so they need ot make sure they are somwhere that doesnt necessarily clash so heavily with it but with good access. easier said than done i know.. They would also need to make sure that that club supports the structure belwo it.. IMO a 6 team league below it with funding given to it by the RLI and the semi pro club, joint sponsorship/marketing etc etc all feeding in..

They are at the right stage, interest is there to build upon.. whether they are RU clubs giving RL a go or not i dont see as being that important when setting up the CC1 club becuase what they need is support, you will be able to pull the players over with the offer of pay (they may not be fantastic but look at the scorpions in an area that pas well for RU).. its the species and if RL is gaining an interest foothold even if it is RU players wanting a peak then this is a good thing (the RU vs RL thinking may well not be so strong.. as is the case in many of hte areas RL is targetting in London.. the kids dont care about the antagonism of yesteryear they just want to play a game or watch a game they enjoy be that RL or RU or even both).

What it really needs though is someone to fund it, fund the staff needed, fund the plaers wages, fund the rent of the stadium and training facilities whilst the sponsorship is put in place and while waiting for hte season to start and gate moeny to come in.. Sponsors dont grow on trees at the moment and so that funding may have to coninue for a while..

to me that is the key.. it may not be overly expensive to set up a CC1 club but is there anyone hanging about that has the mony to invest to get it off the ground.. at the moment my guess is no so are the RFL able to step into the breach.. again my guess at the moment is no.. but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be a good idea.